85 réponses à ce sujet

[CoffeeHolic93]

Well...

Thane dies no matter what.

Legion dies no matter what, but you can "make sure" it's more horrifying/kill Tali while you're at it if you feel the arc isn't depressing enough already.

Jacob, the least-popular romance option cheats on you which is... Surprising.

[MegaSovereign]

Morinth was an insane sex-addict murderer. She deserved to die in ME2 and the consequence of saving her in ME3 is very well justified. I just wish I got to see her being turned into a Banshee. But then again I never did save her.

Jacob got the worst treatment. Especially if you bothered the romance him in ME2.

[NatP]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

capn233 wrote...

NatP wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...
But Kasumi definitely got the worst character assassination: Being retconed into a spineless, ****y coward who whines at Shepard even though she knew what she was doing and only did it for the money, refuses to help him and dies from a tiny computer exploding.
Oh and she gets retconned into not coming to terms with her lover's death and continuing to be obsessed with him.
.

THANK YOU, I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. I'm going to have start killing her off in the suicide mission now. And she's my favorite female character in Mass Effect. :/

Kasumi doesn't die from a computer exploding...

She also has the line asking about Jacob, and says "I'm nostalgic, not dead."

She does if you didn't do the loyalty mission.

And I'm not talking about that 'death'. I mean killing her off in ME2's suicide mission. Y'know that game where she wasn't retconned?

[Nette]

jtav wrote...

They really needed to reduce the cast of ME2 from 12 to 8. Thane, Samara, Zaeed, and Kasumi add nothing except backups on the SM. Squad should have been:

Miranda
Jacob
Garrus
Tali
Mordin
Legion
Grunt (DLC)
Jack (DLC, removed as LI)

With only 8 characters and 4 LIs, the remainder get a bigger share of resources.

Hey, Thane's an LI, (also the only LI you're forced to see die in ME3 ). And why would you remove Jack as an LI? ALL the characters that where romancable should have been part of the crew! Now it's just like a big FU to the players that romanced anyone other than Liara, Garrus, Tali and the VS. They should at least have given us the option to pick our crew out of all the characters that survived the SM...like if you don't want Vega for example, you should be able to exchange him for Grunt or Miranda or any of the others. That would have been fair!

[Nette]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

capn233 wrote...

NatP wrote...

Finn the Jakey wrote...
But Kasumi definitely got the worst character assassination: Being retconed into a spineless, ****y coward who whines at Shepard even though she knew what she was doing and only did it for the money, refuses to help him and dies from a tiny computer exploding.
Oh and she gets retconned into not coming to terms with her lover's death and continuing to be obsessed with him.
.

THANK YOU, I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. I'm going to have start killing her off in the suicide mission now. And she's my favorite female character in Mass Effect. :/

Kasumi doesn't die from a computer exploding...

She also has the line asking about Jacob, and says "I'm nostalgic, not dead."

She does if you didn't do the loyalty mission.

She does it if you destroyed the graybox too.

[Twilight_Princess]

DinoSteve wrote...

I dunno why everyone is saying Thane, he had one of the better storylines in ME3, 

weeeeeeeeelll *cough* actually...where to start... how about a quote?

Weekes: Yeah, I wasn’t in charge of Thane, but I see Thane’s death situation as one of those things that’s the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn’t click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

So he wasn't written as well as you think since even Weekes admitted the new writing team made mistakes. And they did. BIG TIME. When you get right down to it, not a lot of effort (or homework) went into him at all.

Notice how his illness is magically different?
That his time left got shorter in ME3?
That he doesn't have a unique side mission like the other cameos? 
That he doesn't exist in the codex?
That you only have one conversation before the forced death?
Notice how the Kirrahe version of that scene makes a lot more sense when you compare it to Thane's?
Notice how flawed the fight is when you realize shep and her crew plus a cloaked kirrahe (why wouldn't he not still be there?) did nothing to help? 
Notice there is no variables if you have both Thane and Kirrahe in that room together?
No one talks about his death after or reacts to it after (above quote)? 
How if you don't talk to him he just...dies off screen without a mention?
That the way he died was not because of his actual illness but because he jumped on a sword. Something I doubt the ME2 plot was building up to.

And that's just the friend path The romance has more blunders.

It's exactly the same as the friend path minus that first conversation (and part of a line riiiiight at the end) because they forgot he was an LI and quickly tacked something on .
 
During that first conversation Thane forgets his past character development by going right back to being complacent with death even though at the end of his ME2 romance he is not cool about dying anymore. There is no mention of those past ME2 treatments or his change in attitude and really it feels like the ME2 romance was reduced to a fling by the way they behave in ME3. The kiss is copied and pasted from the Jack romance and there is no paramour achievement.

After that, everything plays out exactly the same (yes even the way she reacts to him being hurt). And after he dies shep acts like nothing happened and all the romancers get is the exact same letter copied and pasted from LotSB.

So thane got the shaft is what I'm trying to say.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 08 janvier 2013 - 08:42 .

[jtav]

There never should have been 6 six LIs (not counting Kelly and Samara). to begin with. Thane doesn't propel any plots or add much beyond being a LI so he's out. Remove Jack's LI status and you're down to a much more manageable 2 LIs per gender. With the squad down to 8 in ME2, each of them gets more resources and hopefully better conclusions.

And being able to exchange X character for Y doesn't solve the resource problem.

[Nette]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I dunno why everyone is saying Thane, he had one of the better storylines in ME3, 

weeeeeeeeelll *cough* actually....where to start... how about a quote?

Weekes: Yeah, I wasn’t in charge of Thane, but I see Thane’s death situation as one of those things that’s the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn’t click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

So he wasn't written as well as you think since even Weekes admitted the new writing team made mistakes. And they did. BIG TIME. When you get right down to it, not a lot of effort went into him at all.

Notice how his illness is magically different?
That his time left got shorter in ME3?
That he doesn't have a unique side mission like the other cameos? 
That he doesn't exist in the codex?
That you only have one conversation before the forced death?
Notice how the Kirrahe version of that scene makes a lot more sense when you compare it to Thane's?
Notice how flawed the fight is when you realize shep and her crew plus a cloaked kirrahe (why wouldn't he not still be there?) did nothing to help? 
Notice there is no variables if you have both Thane and Kirrahe in that room together?
No one talks about his death after or reacts to it after (above quote)? 
How if you don't talk to him he just...dies off screen without a mention?
That the way he died was not because of his actual illness but because he jumped on a sword. Something I doubt the ME2 plot was building up to.

And that's just the friend path The romance has more blunders.

It's exactly the same as the friend path minus that first conversation because they forgot he was an LI and quickly tacked something on .
 
During that first conversation Thane forgets his past character development by going right back to being complacent with death even though at the end of his ME2 romance he is not cool about dying anymore. There is no mention of those past ME2 treatments or his change in attitude and really it feels like the ME2 romance was reduced to a fling by the way they behave in ME3. The kiss is copied and pasted from the Jack romance and there is no paramour achievement.

After that, everything plays out exactly the same (yes even the way she reacts to him being hurt). And after he dies shep acts like nothing happened and all the romancers get is the exact same letter copied and pasted from LotSB.

So thane got the shaft is what I'm trying to say.

Well said! When I tried a playthrough with my Thane-mancing Shep, I was soo offput by their treatment of that (now nonexistent ) romance arc that I couldn't continue after the citadel mission. Awful...truly awful

[evilgummybear]

Nero Narmeril wrote...

Thane. Kicked a**es in ME2, cannot defeat Kai Leng in ME3.

thane didnt get the worst treatment in me3.
He did have an awesome 1on1 battle with kai leng. Shame he lost tho, but he was sick & weak after all from his disease. I liked thane even more when i saw him come to shepards rescue. Atleast he died doing what he did best not from some lame disease.

Jacks & monrith had some bad treatmeant. Jack if you didnt save her & she turns into a cerebus goon. Listening to the data pad on her tortue was pretty horrific. Monorith had it comming anyways, in ME2 samara did warn of the consenquences if you chose to side with monorith & this was the results of it her turning into a banshee.

I reakon majority of me2 characters got worst treatment over all because of the lack of content on their return was lame. Miranda/Jack/grunt etc... all had small cameo appearances. It made doing the me2 loyalty quest poitnless.

Mordin was awesome, shame i had to sacrafice him to cure the geno. Him & thane had the best death scene i reakon. Happy grunt didnt die as well.

I reakon Vega had the worst treatment. For a new character to be introduced in the game, his story line felt empty. Infact there was no background about him, he was quite useless in me3 even steve cortez played more major role than him.

[Yate]

Kasumi

[Twilight_Princess]

Nette wrote...

Well said! When I tried a playthrough with my Thane-mancing Shep, I was soo offput by their treatment of that (now nonexistent ) romance arc that I couldn't continue after the citadel mission. Awful...truly awful

Aw shucks . However that long rant isn't to say Thane got the "worst" of it. I still think that crown goes to a romanced Jacob. But what I am trying to say is that Thane's treatment still very, very BAD. So many characters got the shaft though, and the only difference between them is an extra line or a knocked up girlfriend on the side. They all deserve improvement at the end of the day.

And I'm sorry for your Thane import. Mine is still in limbo too. She's not my canon but dammit it I wanted to play her and the Thane issue was too stupid and immersion breaking for me to continue.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:26 .

[Nette]

jtav wrote...

There never should have been 6 six LIs (not counting Kelly and Samara). to begin with. Thane doesn't propel any plots or add much beyond being a LI so he's out. Remove Jack's LI status and you're down to a much more manageable 2 LIs per gender. With the squad down to 8 in ME2, each of them gets more resources and hopefully better conclusions.

And being able to exchange X character for Y doesn't solve the resource problem.

But there are and you can't just say that Thane and Jack should have been removed as LIs. People care for these characters! How would you feel if someone suggested removing your chosen LI ( judging by you picture, I'm guessing it's the "****** and arse queen"  )? I not too fond of Miranda but I would never suggest removing her as an LI because I know a lot of people care for her. And yes, maybe it would have been easier with fewer LIs but BW made the choice to add more and they should have followed through with all the romances equally.

[skate4tacos96]

A bunch of characters had awful treatment! Though I'd say top three would definitely have to be Morinth, Jacob, and Thane. Morinth is turned into a banshee without ever interacting with her, romanced Jacob turns into a racist stereotype, and IMO, Thane gets the worst treatment, as he gets bested in combat by a dude with a pony tail...

[Robhuzz]

jtav wrote...

They really needed to reduce the cast of ME2 from 12 to 8. Thane, Samara, Zaeed, and Kasumi add nothing except backups on the SM. Squad should have been:

Miranda
Jacob
Garrus
Tali
Mordin
Legion
Grunt (DLC)
Jack (DLC, removed as LI)

With only 8 characters and 4 LIs, the remainder get a bigger share of resources.

I agree that a smaller crew for ME2 would've been better but since this is a high profile mission against an  unknown enemy, I really think a powerful biotic would need to be part of the main cast, not DLC.

OT: Morinth definitely got the worst treatment. The same goes for Jacob. Thane in lesser extent though being trolled by Kai Lame like that was humiliating. Jack received very little content but I did like her character development (not romanced), since there's no way of knowing the grissom academy mission is timed her treatment is even worse.

Even though I liked Legion in ME2 I thought they downgraded him completely in ME3. Especially the plot hole he opens when he accepts Reaper technology when he states in ME2 that 'Geth build their own future'. The others were...okay.. I guess. I never figured Kasumi or Zaeed to get much content since they were DLC characters. Miranda was obsessed with Oriana and was completely sidetracked and Samara was only seen for 1 mission. Grunt's mission and fight against that reaperized rachni was great but other than that he was sidetracked like most other ME2 chars.

I guess you could say the only ME2 characters who were treated properly were Mordin (awesome scene on Tuchanka) and Tali and Garrus (obviously)..

Modifié par Robhuzz, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:32 .

[evilgummybear]

They basically brought all the playble characters in ME1 & pretty much killed off ME2 characters.
Very silly of bioware to do that. All that loyalty quest from ME2 for nothing basically.

[jtav]

Well, I'd prefer they just have 8, no DLC, but those are the two I'd relegate to DLC if I was forced to. There are too many LIs and too many squad members in general. So you end up with ME3 where they all have to be shoved in, but none can be critical because they're all dead.

And Thane used to be my favorite LI. That doesn't make him less extraneous to the plot as such and therefore a prime candidate to be axed in ME2's planning stages. I like him a lot. Friends will vouch for me having a giggle-fit over him. But better he never have existed than what we got.

As for the worst:

Jacob-Horribly racist and what happened to him being on the verge of greatness.
Kasumi-pathological grief and something of a coward.

[majinstrings]

Technically Morinth...

Other than her I'd say Zaeed...could've some cool stuff with him...

[archangel1996]

Morinth for sure
And essentially every single squadmate of ME2....a mission and goodbye? Why can't i do my own squad with WHO i want in it, why? And if i had a romance with someone else than Tali/Garrus/Liara i am essentially screwed(Jack and Miranda for example)

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'd say Zaeed, if only because he briefly shows up when you're tracking down the corrupt volus, and then he just stands around in the docking bay for the rest of the game. Kasumi has a similarly brief appearance, but at least she leaves and helps with the Crucible.

Jacob also spends the rest of the game standing around on the Citadel, but oddly enough he seems to claim that he's still actively helping the Alliance. I guess he just gets long lunch breaks or something.

[thearbiter1337]

Zaeed

I would say Kasumi but Zaeed was shafffffftteeeeddd

[hadrain77]

I always hear people complain about Jacob being a cheating bastard but in the same breath say that they never romanced him, well if you didn't romance him then he didn't cheat on you. He actually has one of the better resolutions for an ME2 squadmate (if not romanced) he found someone to love, I don't blame him for wanting to be near his beloved and unborn child.

[Mr.House]

Miranda did.

Also Morinth does not count since she was already half baked in ME2.