291 réponses à ce sujet

[Neizd]

I am shocked to see this... and glad that finally someone sumed it all up. It's 100% true that a lot of us paid for all three games, all dlc, invested a lot of time...and what we got at the end was not satisfaction but something awfull. Right now it's better, but I am still not happy that I got one of four options that people that only played ME3 could get...I would love to have somehing only for myself for all the time I invested in this game.

Great find op.

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...

eduardogranja wrote...

Talking about game endings, ME3, specially with EC, in far from how awful AC3 ending is...

not that far

and yet to me twice as aggravating especially after the "It's up to you" middle finger

and yes it IS a middle finger

Absolutely.  I will say this again-I have never seen the level of pre-release hype for any game, that promised so much that was never delivered.  And I didn't constantly check for new information as to the game's release.  The issue isn't only that the game didn't end well, but that so much was promised as to what players would be able to achieve that was then never delivered.  They created 3 endings (4 if you include the one they really don't want you to choose).  So, it's really this idea of 1 vs. 3 canon endings that are the same flavor of awful.

One of the best quotes from that article, though there are many:
"What I’m trying to say, is that players should be rewarded for investing hours upon hours of their lives with, at least,
a fitting end to their own tales. You just flew through the game without caring about anything or anyone? Fine, here’s the “default” ending, but for everyone else, here’s the ending you deserve."


Players also should not be given information or choices in a game if the game at the end will ignore that information or the choice.  BW created dialogue that I got to choose in my game-that dialogue formed my opinion of who Shepard was.  At the end, BW ignored that Shepard and the dialogue and choices they allowed me to make.  They ignored content that they created.

People love to say it's BW's story to tell as they like.  Ok, then they needed to tell the story that fit the one they created, not just one version of it at the end.

It is completely possible in the game to create a Shepard (based on choices and dialogue that BW created) that could not make one of those choices and that could not believe the situation to be plausible or valid.  But, if I quote some of the things that point this out, I often get replies from people that say, "too bad, my Shepard didn't say that so the endings are fine."  Well, my Shepard was just as valid a character in the game as those the some think fit in with the endings.  BW created both and did not give mine an ending.

I do think that that quote is right on the money.  BW sought to make it seem like no canon existed so made no real differentiation between any of the decisions made.  In the end, paragon or renegade get just about the same amount of points for their EMS, and only some variation in really unsatisfying slideshows.  A minimalist player can get the same EMS and thus choices as someone who got everything, did everything in SP.  In fact, you don't even have to play MP to do all that-use one of the iPad apps and you can.  That means that the choices in the game never mattered (except to advance the story along).  Do the "bad" thing, lose some assets and you gain them somewhere else, just so you can still get the same choices as someone who did something completely different. 

Well, people love to say it's all about war and difficult choices, but in real war choices do matter and do affect outcomes.  Decide to turn on one ally and reward another whose attention may be misdirected, and you could lose everything.  Trust the wrong ally, and betray another and maybe you will win the war, but lose the peace afterward.  This game is not about war at the end-it's about just plain not thinking about the stuff that mattered, the choices we already had made, or the characters we played.  It was all about just ending the game and churning it out so the money would flow.  If it was something that was really meant to do justice to this story, then it would have done that.  It would have had an ending that reflected the meaning of different choices in the games and different characters that we played and that BW created by writing dialogue and choices we could choose.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 janvier 2013 - 09:00 .

[3DandBeyond]

Neizd wrote...

I am shocked to see this... and glad that finally someone sumed it all up. It's 100% true that a lot of us paid for all three games, all dlc, invested a lot of time...and what we got at the end was not satisfaction but something awfull. Right now it's better, but I am still not happy that I got one of four options that people that only played ME3 could get...I would love to have somehing only for myself for all the time I invested in this game.

Great find op.

Yep, this exactly.

[skate4tacos96]

crimzontearz wrote...

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Far Cry 3 endings ROFL!! *choose Citra* Ended in a Bang!!!!!!

figuratively AND literally


also....Citra never appealed to me, she is toooooo skinny

I never liked Citra because she sorta acts like a **** throughout the game, then out of no where is madly in love with Jason in the end. It just seemed too sudden. But I see what you did there... ends in a 'bang'

[skate4tacos96]

Wassup 3D?! Nice to see yah again, bro! XD

[crimzontearz]

chemiclord wrote...

The rules that I tend to live by as I wrap up storylines go like so:

1) It has to be "clean." Open-endings are the epitome of laziness. If you're truly ending something, then end it. Don't leave things "hanging" to tease a potential sequel. You're not really ending it then, so stop pretending you are. Wrap up the major plotlines, make sure it all meshes together, and that everything that is fundamentally important to resolve IS resolved. This requires some degree of knowing what your readers expect to see resolved.

2) Someone is going to hate it, no matter what. Anything you do with your conclusion, someone is going to be infuriated, and they are likely going to let you know VERY LOUDLY. Ignore them. Tell the story you want to tell, and end it the way you want to end it. The moment you start trying to appease everyone is the moment you wind up appeasing no one.

3) Understand the difference between what the reader WANTS to see, and what they NEED to see. Giving into the former becomes empty pandering; it doesn't actually engage the reader and make them think about the message. Give them enough to put the pieces together... it ends up much more satisfying for them than to hand them everything.

There are other things I will consider from story to story, but those three rules are the most constant.

so about the breath scene.............?

[Legion of 1337]

http://tvtropes.org/...in/GainaxEnding

People need to stop their raging, seriously. I look at ME's ending as "Oh look yet another great sci-fi series with a stupid ending" and just chuckle a bit. This sort of ending **** up happens quite often, especially in sci-fi - the creators don't know how to end it, or they get too ahead of themselves, or they try to write something really 'clever' or 'cool' or 'philosophical' and it's convoluted crap. This isn't uncommon. Is it good writing? No, and Casey should at least admit he sucks at writing (which he won't), but it's not worth the rage. If Trekies can live on and love with the even-numbered Star Trek movies and ignore the odd-numbered ones, can we ignore the last 10 minutes of ME and enjoy the rest?

[Han Shot First]

I stopped reading after the author complained about the ending to Red Dead Redemption.

A sunshine and rainbows ending would have ruined RDR.

[crimzontearz]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...in/GainaxEnding

People need to stop their raging, seriously. I look at ME's ending as "Oh look yet another great sci-fi series with a stupid ending" and just chuckle a bit. This sort of ending **** up happens quite often, especially in sci-fi - the creators don't know how to end it, or they get too ahead of themselves, or they try to write something really 'clever' or 'cool' or 'philosophical' and it's convoluted crap. This isn't uncommon. Is it good writing? No, and Casey should at least admit he sucks at writing (which he won't), but it's not worth the rage. If Trekies can live on and love with the even-numbered Star Trek movies and ignore the odd-numbered ones, can we ignore the last 10 minutes of ME and enjoy the rest?

you are forgetting they had the chance to change it.........aaaaaaaand they threw two consecutive middle fingers at the fans......

[crimzontearz]

Han Shot First wrote...

I stopped reading after the author complained about the ending to Red Dead Redemption.

A sunshine and rainbows ending would have ruined RDR.

apparently not to him

waddyano........

[archangel1996]

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...in/GainaxEnding

People need to stop their raging, seriously. I look at ME's ending as "Oh look yet another great sci-fi series with a stupid ending" and just chuckle a bit. This sort of ending **** up happens quite often, especially in sci-fi - the creators don't know how to end it, or they get too ahead of themselves, or they try to write something really 'clever' or 'cool' or 'philosophical' and it's convoluted crap. This isn't uncommon. Is it good writing? No, and Casey should at least admit he sucks at writing (which he won't), but it's not worth the rage. If Trekies can live on and love with the even-numbered Star Trek movies and ignore the odd-numbered ones, can we ignore the last 10 minutes of ME and enjoy the rest?

you are forgetting they had the chance to change it.........aaaaaaaand they threw two consecutive middle fingers at the fans......

People is still angry about ME3 because they/we truly care about ME, no matter what they/we say, they/we do

[Legion of 1337]

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...in/GainaxEnding

People need to stop their raging, seriously. I look at ME's ending as "Oh look yet another great sci-fi series with a stupid ending" and just chuckle a bit. This sort of ending **** up happens quite often, especially in sci-fi - the creators don't know how to end it, or they get too ahead of themselves, or they try to write something really 'clever' or 'cool' or 'philosophical' and it's convoluted crap. This isn't uncommon. Is it good writing? No, and Casey should at least admit he sucks at writing (which he won't), but it's not worth the rage. If Trekies can live on and love with the even-numbered Star Trek movies and ignore the odd-numbered ones, can we ignore the last 10 minutes of ME and enjoy the rest?

you are forgetting they had the chance to change it.........aaaaaaaand they threw two consecutive middle fingers at the fans......

ME is unique among Gainax endings, and among any fiction in general actually, in that ANYTHING was changed. It's not an intentional "**** you" to the audience, they just honestly thought what they're doing was cool. It's actually heavily flawed and thematically confused, but it's what they wanted nonetheless. 

Mass Effect has done better than most sci-fi at not being inconsistent in quality. I am not excusing bad writing, plot holes are still plot holes, but 99% of the series is good which is more than I can say for most.

[stonbw1]

Han Shot First wrote...

I stopped reading after the author complained about the ending to Red Dead Redemption.

A sunshine and rainbows ending would have ruined RDR.

RDR had one of the best endings I've ever experienced in video game (if not media in general).  Simply stated, it was perfect for that game.

[crimzontearz]

archangel1996 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

http://tvtropes.org/...in/GainaxEnding

People need to stop their raging, seriously. I look at ME's ending as "Oh look yet another great sci-fi series with a stupid ending" and just chuckle a bit. This sort of ending **** up happens quite often, especially in sci-fi - the creators don't know how to end it, or they get too ahead of themselves, or they try to write something really 'clever' or 'cool' or 'philosophical' and it's convoluted crap. This isn't uncommon. Is it good writing? No, and Casey should at least admit he sucks at writing (which he won't), but it's not worth the rage. If Trekies can live on and love with the even-numbered Star Trek movies and ignore the odd-numbered ones, can we ignore the last 10 minutes of ME and enjoy the rest?

you are forgetting they had the chance to change it.........aaaaaaaand they threw two consecutive middle fingers at the fans......

People is still angry about ME3 because they/we truly care about ME, no matter what they/we say, they/we do

we do

[Han Shot First]

crimzontearz wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I stopped reading after the author complained about the ending to Red Dead Redemption.

A sunshine and rainbows ending would have ruined RDR.

apparently not to him

waddyano........

That's because he apparently doesn't know what a good ending is.

[evilgummybear]

Bioware needs to look into this topic, i love this link.
Well written article there.

[crimzontearz]

Han Shot First wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I stopped reading after the author complained about the ending to Red Dead Redemption.

A sunshine and rainbows ending would have ruined RDR.

apparently not to him

waddyano........

That's because he apparently doesn't know what a good ending is.

given that "good" and "Bad" are subjective neither do you

but then again there are people who LOVE twilight

[clarkusdarkus]

They're is no way players who only played ME3 and those that played it with action mode should have had the same endings than those who invested hundreds of hours into the saga....

Hopefully this thread keeps civil and doesn't go off topic as lately interesting threads are getting lockdowned or damn right removed.......

[chemiclord]

crimzontearz wrote...
so about the breath scene.............?

Actually an example of Rule #3 to me more than Rule #1.  The only way you interpret the breath scene as anything other than "he's alive" is if you want to be miserable and stick it to Bioware that you are miserable and refuse to be mollified.  

It does the bare minimum, (one of the few elements of the ending that suffice to that low standard, for what its worth).  You could go a BIT further I suppose (show some semblance of him/her being rescued from the rubble), but to go too far beyond that would start pissing off fans (because it's not how "their Shepard" would handle the aftermath) for no reason.

[3DandBeyond]

skate4tacos96 wrote...

Wassup 3D?! Nice to see yah again, bro! XD

Hello!  Hope you're well!  P.S. I'm of the female variety.

Now, onto commenting on some things that have been said.....

I still want people to understand just how belittling it is to say this is all about a bunnies and rainbow type ending.  What many if not most people have been saying they wanted was one way to get to (for lack of a better term) happier ending.  Problem with this is, if you liked the endings, you most likely see them as "happy" in some way.  But, I don't.  I see nothing that goes along with the Shepard I played.

But even that is just way off.  Happy is a relative term.  What I wanted isn't necessarily super dooper trippingly happy.  It's just different and what I see as more rational.  I did want one way in which this "war" could be won and in which Shepard and friends could live.  But I never saw that as the only ending-there could be a full on loss, everyone dead, a bittersweet win, where the reapers are gone, but some died.  But one path to a full on victory and yes survival.  And a real aftermath where people wouldn't be jumping around singing froo froo songs, but where they'd have to rebuild whole planets, pick up and bury the dead, and get rid of the hulking carcasses of a now extinct race, the reapers.  Colonies have been destroyed, billions dead, the galaxy is a mess.  I wanted people to be able to use what they learned in deciding to work together to rebuild what was lost and build a future together.  Self-determination and all that.

Now, if that's sunshine and bunnies, please do tell me is that the kind of happily ever after you hope for in your own life?  Do you hope that yoiu get to see most everything that you love all but destroyed and in ruins?  Do you wish that one day you will get to die and be somehow brought back, fully augmented with tech, and that you will cheerfully have to continually coerce groups of people to fight for their own lives and the lives of the people on their worlds?  Or do you prefer something a little less happy, as if it's artiistic for others to watch the skin fly off your body as you die? 

People need to get real.  "Happier" endings exist for a reason-they are the most popular when well done, so that means most people just plain prefer to see in their entertainment what they also prefer in their own lives, a bit of happiness at the end.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 08 janvier 2013 - 10:03 .

[gert56nom]

the first mass effect game I got was ME3 ps3 version, despite the endings at the time I liked the game so much I got ME2 so I could import a character & get all the bits I'd been missing .
I now own the trilogy on ps3 , I like the games that much

but despite the EC I still consider some of the videos of the custom endings to be the true end of the game

[dreamgazer]

crimzontearz wrote...

given that "good" and "Bad" are subjective neither do you

but then again there are people who LOVE twilight

There are, yes, but that doesn't really matter in this conversation.

The ending to RDR was exceptional. As was the dark, heartbreaking, tear-inducing ending to another certain GOTY contender from 2012. 

[Gruntburner]

It is not an article, it is a personal blog post by a person who doesn't even work for IGN.

[crimzontearz]

chemiclord wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
so about the breath scene.............?

Actually an example of Rule #3 to me more than Rule #1.  The only way you interpret the breath scene as anything other than "he's alive" is if you want to be miserable and stick it to Bioware that you are miserable and refuse to be mollified.  

It does the bare minimum, (one of the few elements of the ending that suffice to that low standard, for what its worth).  You could go a BIT further I suppose (show some semblance of him/her being rescued from the rubble), but to go too far beyond that would start pissing off fans (because it's not how "their Shepard" would handle the aftermath) for no reason.

soooo you advocate shutting off your brain and listening only to author intention? or do I have to point you to the picture of the explosion and the direct statement that they wanted the scene to be open ended?

by your OWN COIN that is laziness

[Iakus]

 What I’m trying to say, is that players should be rewarded for investing hours upon hours of their lives with, at least, a fitting end to their own tales. You just flew through the game without caring about anything or anyone? Fine, here’s the “default” ending, but for everyone else, here’s the ending you deserve.

THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS!    Right here.  This is why and how Bioware fell down on the endings.  This is the absolute failure of the endings described in two sentences.  This is what Bioware could not or would not get with EC

This is what DAO provided, but ME3 didn't.

Modifié par iakus, 08 janvier 2013 - 10:18 .