291 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealJayDee]

Well, I'd say there are a few big differences between Evangelion and Mass Effect:

1) Yes, the Evangelion ending was confusing and EoE was weird and disturbing. But both are imo nowhere near as disconnected from the actual series in terms of tone and themes as the ME endings are from the rest of the games. To me ME3 felt like they were putting the Evangelion finale at the end of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, if you know what I mean.

2) Neon Genesis Evangelion is not an interactive medium.

[andy6915]

"ME3 felt like they were putting the Evangelion finale at the end of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann"

I actually laughed. Yes, it is true that EoE at least does connect with the rest of the series. The original didn't though. The "congratulations" scene did not feel like Evangelion... At all.

[Necrotron]

dreamgazer wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

http://www.ign.com/b...erly-end-a-game


I am speechless

really, I was not expecting this from IGN.....and I did not think I would ever say this but thank god other people are opening their eyes 

Well, I don't believe the author actually works for IGN. Looks like a personal blog.

http://people.ign.com/vlad94pintea

Yeah, don't worry, their editor over there at IGN will be calling this guy names and insulting him quickly enough.

[FlamingBoy]

this appears to be a user blog, using the ign system

we already know that hatred of the ending (and perhaps the game) is everywhere but this does not show ign "seeing the light" so to speak

[InvincibleHero]

Coreniro wrote...

The guy on ign writes about "rewards". An end isn't supposed to be a reward for those who get there. This arguement about the hundreds of hours invested in the game, only to get a reward in the end, is pure bull****. The reward I get from the hours I've played is the hundreds of things I've seen and done, not a stupid price in the end.
That guy on ign is delusional. Talking about giving every single person the ending they want just because it's an rpg. Yeah, there's no problem in doing that.

I agree with you on much. The ending is how the writer wants it to be. I expect that I can make sense of it and that's about it. I never expect to get what I want as i got the experience playing the game. I play to experience something someone else created not expect things to be the exact way I want or its garbage. That is entitlement mentality.  

[CronoDragoon]

InvincibleHero wrote...

I agree with you on much. The ending is how the writer wants it to be. I expect that I can make sense of it and that's about it. I never expect to get what I want as i got the experience playing the game. I play to experience something someone else created not expect things to be the exact way I want or its garbage. That is entitlement mentality.  

There is a middle ground here that is better for both parties. Personally, I don't expect to get exactly what I want, but I expect more of what came before, the same as I don't expect a DMX song to end with a verse from Garth Brooks.

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Or if you listen to the stupid Bioware writer that declared this was Sheppard's last breath, at PAX

Yeah, after months of whining, one Bioware writer decided to be a troll and said, "Fine.  You clowns want to be miserable?  Fine.  He's dead.  Go be miserable."

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Or if you listen to the stupid Bioware writer that declared this was Sheppard's last breath, at PAX

Yeah, after months of whining, one Bioware writer decided to be a troll and said, "Fine.  You clowns want to be miserable?  Fine.  He's dead.  Go be miserable."

Umm, EC was released late June.  That comment was at a panel at ComicCon in mid July.

Not months.  Barely weeks, even.

[Iakus]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Coreniro wrote...

The guy on ign writes about "rewards". An end isn't supposed to be a reward for those who get there. This arguement about the hundreds of hours invested in the game, only to get a reward in the end, is pure bull****. The reward I get from the hours I've played is the hundreds of things I've seen and done, not a stupid price in the end.
That guy on ign is delusional. Talking about giving every single person the ending they want just because it's an rpg. Yeah, there's no problem in doing that.

I agree with you on much. The ending is how the writer wants it to be. I expect that I can make sense of it and that's about it. I never expect to get what I want as i got the experience playing the game. I play to experience something someone else created not expect things to be the exact way I want or its garbage. That is entitlement mentality.  

Then why bother givning us choices in the first place?  Why not force everyone to jump in the Synthesis beam?

[InvincibleHero]

CronoDragoon wrote...

There is a middle ground here that is better for both parties. Personally, I don't expect to get exactly what I want, but I expect more of what came before, the same as I don't expect a DMX song to end with a verse from Garth Brooks.

Well what is the expextation for the ME3 ending then? It has to be happy because the first two were toal victories. I cannot agree with that. We got several choices like the other games in fact a +1 as the other games only had two choices.

[InvincibleHero]

iakus wrote...

Then why bother givning us choices in the first place?  Why not force everyone to jump in the Synthesis beam?

They gave us choices the first two games so it would be out of place to end it that way. I oddly enough made a thread in March the problem was that they gave us choices when they could have ended it definitively the way they wanted. It may have brought more derision though.

I would not have liked sythesis only, but you know what; it is Shepard's story and not my own video log of life experiences. I navigate the choices and experience the ME universe through his/her eyes (I play both). I would say my piece and be done and still have played through multiple times and played the awesome MP just as much. in fact that is my main impediment to playing SP more.

[TransientNomad]

crimzontearz wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

eduardogranja wrote...

Talking about game endings, ME3, specially with EC, in far from how awful AC3 ending is...

I'm not a fan of AC3's ending but ME3 contained THE ****tiest ending of a trilogy that I've seen in my gaming life. I don't think any game will ever come close.

wanna see a greatly handled multiple ending? Vampire: the masquerade - redemption

God damn that game was beyond awesome.  One of the best Rpgs of all time (save for the huge amount of glitches it was shipped with of course)

[Kais Endac]

I agree with the article 100%. The endings to ME3 especially pre-EC felt like a punch in the gut the endings were not rewarding in any way (for me at least) and the breath scene just added insult to injury.
Since Mass Effect 3 was the end of Shepard's journey it's likely that Shepard will be discarded like: the Hero of Neverwinter (who is all but stripped of his importance and achievements in the expansions)
The Grey Warden (disappears?)
Hawke(disappears?)(granted these two could be resolved in DA3)
Revan (disappears?)
Hero's don't really live long do they 

I'm not saying this approach is bad it allows players to imagine what happens after without dev input, well....except for Revan who doesn't even get his happy ending due to being imprisoned...... never meets his own son... oh and he possibly dies in SWTOR.

That said I think that what the endings attempted to do was admirable but ultimately failed in the eyes of many fans, with people raging over the problems the endings caused.

Given the fact that it is down to player choice and there are nearly four endings would it have been that bad to give people a happier ending, after all it's optional if you don't want that ending don't pick it.

For me the ultimate ending resolves the main plot threads without leaving speculation (especially important for a final game in a trilogy) and allows different endings based on player choices.

Overall I think I'm in a rather small group of players in that how a game ends can prevent me from buying it in the first place (yes I will sometimes see the ending before I play the game), I actually prefer happier endings not disney happy, but endings with a sense of hope and a prospect for recovery (yes the EC does this but it is sort of half finished especially since the rubble scene remains). That said I do like bittersweet endings and even dark ones so long as a choice remains. DAO and Jade Empire come to mind as posssible examples (the God Sun Li was sufficiently dark and weirdly funny at the same time, well that's what surrendering to a psychopath does lol).

This is just my opinion though and I recognize that there are just as many people that liked the ending and would not like to see it change.  I think that bioware's choice to stick to their current ending is probably the best course to take. Imagine if fans could demand anything especially BSN fans (no insult intended) games would be an odd mishmash of things people though were a good idea.

A hypocritical stance to take I know but even though I dislike the endings and actually use MEHEM in my own canon, I think that retconing the endings would just make things worse now.

Regardless of my thoughts on the ending I still love the ME trilogy and continue to play the games (if only up to priority earth)

Modifié par Kais Endac, 09 janvier 2013 - 02:13 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

Umm, EC was released late June.  That comment was at a panel at ComicCon in mid July.

Not months.  Barely weeks, even.

The Shepard lives ending was in the game from release, buddy.

Try again.

[Ultranovae]

Well, at least this isn't their official stance on the ending. This is one of their editorials in which one if their correspondents gives his opinion, there's other opinions through the website, is it contradictory? Not really, different journalists are bound to have different opinions.

I personally would have hated an ending in which Shepard would retire all happiness and smiles, rather go out with a bang than with a whimper if you're protagonist is going to disappear from the universe.
Than again, I'm one of the ones who think all endings were too happy and nice and not dark enough and I'm sort of baffled at the fans crying out that the endings were to dark, but opinions will be different of course from person to person.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote...

Umm, EC was released late June.  That comment was at a panel at ComicCon in mid July.

Not months.  Barely weeks, even.

The Shepard lives ending was in the game from release, buddy.

Try again.

You mean release, when no one who couldn't/wouldn't do multiplayer could even see the scene, right?

[ME859]

I didn't look but I'm guessing that a certain IGN editor didn't write that article.

[PrimeOfValor]

Kais Endac wrote...

This is just my opinion though and I recognize that there are just as many people that liked the ending and would not like to see it change.  I think that bioware's choice to stick to their current ending is probably the best course to take. Imagine if fans could demand anything especially BSN fans (no insult intended) games would be an odd mishmash of things people though were a good idea.

A hypocritical stance to take I know but even though I dislike the endings and actually use MEHEM in my own canon, I think that retconing the endings would just make things worse now.

Regardless of my thoughts on the ending I still love the ME trilogy and continue to play the games (if only up to priority earth)

I fully agree with the article as well depending on the choices the players and the ending the player should recieve.

It makes sense in a way, but I think, in my opinion, let's say bioware does change the endings into 16 different endings then what? 

I asked myself and I came to the conclusion that I really can't think anything else other than the current endings what we got , a happy ending with little to no strings attached other than time and money invested that the fans had poured though. All of this, I can't really see them making 16 different endings from the choices we make thorughout the trilogy because there are too many variables to keep track of.

Personally, I would liked to fully see a happy ending just once in any game of Mass Effect without the cost of a friend or species in the process to achieve it.

If Bioware does this, they would fully reinstated N7's in my books because right now, they are N5 with me (N6 depending on the next DLC).

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote..
You mean release, when no one who couldn't/wouldn't do multiplayer could even see the scene, right?

Doesn't change it was there and that people like you were whining about it from the start.

Try again.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote..
You mean release, when no one who couldn't/wouldn't do multiplayer could even see the scene, right?

Doesn't change it was there and that people like you were whining about it from the start.

Try again.

"People like me" a rude but I suppose not innacurate way of putting it.

Of course, with EC everyone got to see how totally empty a gesture the breath scene was.  

Not just "people like me"

Care to try again?

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

"People like me" a rude but I suppose not innacurate way of putting it.

Of course, with EC everyone got to see how totally empty a gesture the breath scene was.  

Not just "people like me"

Care to try again?

Not sure what I need to try again.

The "Shepard Lives" ending has been there since release.  Since release, people (like you) have whined that it wasn't enough (which you have... repeatedly).

You seem to have called those facts into question.  I'm still waiting.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote...

"People like me" a rude but I suppose not innacurate way of putting it.

Of course, with EC everyone got to see how totally empty a gesture the breath scene was.  

Not just "people like me"

Care to try again?

Not sure what I need to try again.

The "Shepard Lives" ending has been there since release.  Since release, people (like you) have whined that it wasn't enough (which you have... repeatedly).

You seem to have called those facts into question.  I'm still waiting.

I'm saying that now there are many many more of "my kind" since EC, because mopre people got to see the scene in all it's terribleness. 

You know what, why am I even arguing with you?  You think writers can do no wrong.

Sorry, I'm done here.

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

I'm saying that now there are many many more of "my kind" since EC, because mopre people got to see the scene in all it's terribleness. 

You know what, why am I even arguing with you?  You think writers can do no wrong.

Sorry, I'm done here.

How many there are of you doesn't particularly concern me.  I, for one, have no problems being a "minority."

As for the scene being terrible; of course it is.  It's cheap, and the bare minimum.  However, the breath scene, is at the very least, very clear in what it is saying.  You WANT more, but you really don't NEED more, to know "Shepard lives."

As far as issues about the ending are concerned, the breath scene is the LEAST of the problems.

And "writers can do no wrong?"  More emotive, irrational nonsense.  Come on.  I'd like to think you're better than that.

Modifié par chemiclord, 09 janvier 2013 - 04:04 .

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

How many there are of you doesn't particularly concern me.  I, for one, have no problems being a "minority."

As for the scene being terrible; of course it is.  It's cheap, and the bare minimum.  However, the breath scene, is at the very least, very clear in what it is saying.  You WANT more, but you really don't NEED more, to know "Shepard lives."

As far as issues about the ending are concerned, the breath scene is the LEAST of the problems.

And "writers can do no wrong?"  More emotive, irrational nonsense.  Come on.  I'd like to think you're better than that.

I'm going to regret this.  But fine.  One more post.

The point isn't if you're in the  minority.  Or me.  The point is after EC, the scene became available for far, far more fans.  Who also saw how awful it is.  the "last breath" wasn't just trolling me or "my kind' it trolled everyone who experienced EC at that point.  

No, it's not the bare minimum, it's not enough.  Full stop.  There is no catharsis, no sense of finality, or triumph.  It is what it is:  a broken faceless body gasping in rubble.   The fans deserve more.

And yes, I truly think you believe writers are sacrosanct.  Emotive?  maybe.  Irrational.  Not from where I'm standing.  I've seen you take offense at ending mods because you see them as perverting the author's intent.  You think the story is untouchable.  You see RPGs as a novel to be read as is. With the players having no voice.

 I, otoh. see it as a tabletop game, where the story is shaped through actions and reactions.  Choices and consequences.  There issn't just one Mass Effect 3 story.  There is (or should be hundreds, thaousands even.  Sadly the writers proved extremely reluctant to allow any kind of variation on Shepard's fate.

Modifié par iakus, 09 janvier 2013 - 04:20 .

[David7204]

Someone went and pulled out the thesaurus. An effort to intimidate, perhaps?