291 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

where's that confounded canon?!?

edit: must be a Eezo enhanced platinum nugget... Damb!

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:41 .

[Mcfly616]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

do you not see that as a sign that he was told to stop advocating that?

No, because it makes little logical sense to reach that conclusion.  One off-handed comment that had every sign of trolling to get some dander up doesn't change the (admittedly sparse) evidence to the contrary.  Bioware may have run with it... but it felt to me that they were more giving up trying to convince fans otherwise.  "You want to believe we put in a scene of him breathing to just say 'and then he died?'  Fine.  You go ahead and do that.  We really don't give a **** anymore.  Go be miserable."

Question, did Ottway die or live at the end of The Grey?

The final scene of that movie is remarkbably close to ME3 destory yet everyone in their right mind has no hope for that poor man. So why is it any leap of the imagination that the same thought process would occur with the ME3 scene?

The Grey Ending

wanted to watch it, heard about the ending, said **** it and never watched it nor I plan to

Actually, the ending really fits with the movie, once you get past the fact that the trailers were horrible for marketing the type of movie this was. Sure you end up with ambiguity, leaning towards depressing, but the final acts by the character and his growth throughout the film make it much easier to diggest.

It's not like he just stands their and waits to get eaten.

there's also no scene of Liam Neeson taking a breath of air after the final scene. In fact, The Grey cuts to the credits before the final fight even begins. Therefore its up to the viewer to decide if he lives or dies. Which is unlike ME3 High EMS Destroy, where it literally shows him ALIVE. No need to wonder....he's alive. The only thing thats up in the air is "how does Shepard spend threst of his days?". Which is completely up to the player now that you know he survived, only you know how your Shep would live.

I actually thought the Grey's ending was awesome and quite poetic in contrast to the way Liam Neesons characters mindset changes. In the beginning he wants to take his own life. In the end, he's willing to fight for his life even though there's nothing to go home to....

Actually there is a post-credits scene showing the aftermath of the fight. The wolf is still alive and Ottoway's head is resting on top of it, no indication if he is alive.

The underlying theme of the movie is living for the day, making the most of it even if its your last. Which is emphasized by Ottoway's father's poem. "Once more into the fray, into the last good fight I'll ever know. Live and die on this day. . . Live and die on this day. . ."

The writers of ME3 wrote it with the same mindset, Mac Walters himself even said on a blog post a week before the game came out that "not everybody is going to like the ending" and that the point of the game is a goodbye, to the characters, the story, everything. And even mentioned that old quote "It's not the destination, but the journey that matters." Which is the point of the Grey as well.

True, the Grey and Mass Effect 3 may not end the way everybody wanted it to. But you gotta admit, it was a hell of a ride. Thwarting Saren, bringing down the Collectors, and uniting the galaxy behind you to stop the Reapers from destroying everyone.

you can't tell if Ottoway is alive. Which is exactly why his fate is different than Shepards. You don't know if he lived or died. Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

However, while that's a major difference.....the endings are similar in a way, I guess.


P.S. I'm pretty sure the wolf isnt going to make it. Ottoway wouldn't be laying on it in that way had he not been victorious. (That's not saying he didn't die in order to achieve victory)

[FreshRevenge]

 That's funny Mass Effect 3 is on a list on How not to end a game! BIOWARE WAKE THE FRAK UP AND GET WITH THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HATES THE ENDING!

[WhiteKnyght]

Kais Endac wrote...

 The ending of a game is one of the most important aspects of an rpg for me. It can.... 

• serve as a justification for the actions of the pc (ends justify the means)
• wrap up unfinished plot points and unanswered questions
• allow the player to choose the tone of his/her ending eg. Dark, Bittersweet, Happy, Evil, Good or any combination of these things.
• set the stage for a sequel
• bring up questions on things like Morality or even Mortality 

But the most important thing in an rpg (for me) is choice and the giving the choices fleshed out endings that do not leave speculation, I've said it before but the plausability of the crucible and the catalyst did not bother me, if the ending had satisfied me I could care less if the crucible was giant red off button that floated in space. (yea I'm simple like that^_^)

But the main problem I had with the ending is the fact that for the enitre trilogy a main theme in the games were victory despite the odds, Shepard made a career on doing the impossible. I recognise the fact he had never faced odds as bad as ME3 before but would it have been that bad to give one possible ending where shepard is not either dead or lying in a pile of rubble.

The current endings cater to those that like dark or bittersweet endings whereas those that actually want Shepard to survive and see his recovery (even if it was only like the final scene for ME1 where csec agents are sorting though the rubble and find shep) they have to headcanon his recovery.

Oh well I suppose it's too late now anyway, I really need to stop playing this game but bioware made the story and characters too engaging (damn you bioware) anyway after my little rant I have to acknowledge that even though the ending will likely never change and I will ner be fond of said endings the trilogy is too good not to play.

                       
On a sidenote I always found it odd that  IGN and the like was so quick to call people "entitled whiners" after all the only reason they are in buisness today is because of the support and money consumers have given them in the past, they are media outlets that need consumer support (even if they are in the pockets of major publishers like people claim) and to call parts of your consumer base whiners does not seem like a smart move especially if you wish to keep your credibility (especially when their concerns were valid). Although I suppose the various threats and abuse that bioware employees had to endure was a validation of these claims. (Anyone feel free to correct me I have no head for buisness and I'm probably looking at it the wrong way)

IGN and the like say it because it is true. Mass Effect fans are more oversensitive than Star Trek fans, who are practicially a religious organization these days.

Seeing things like Shepard's "recovery" contribute nothing to the game's plot. Knowing that he is alive(the breath) is a reward for a good playthrough. You don't need to know any more because it's common sense and you're not five years old. You should be able to figure out things. The thing about most RPGs are that they cater to younger audiences.

[Wayning_Star]

[/quote]

Question, did Ottway die or live at the end of The Grey?

The final scene of that movie is remarkbably close to ME3 destory yet everyone in their right mind has no hope for that poor man. So why is it any leap of the imagination that the same thought process would occur with the ME3 scene?

The Grey Ending

[/quote]wanted to watch it, heard about the ending, said **** it and never watched it nor I plan to
[/quote]

Actually, the ending really fits with the movie, once you get past the fact that the trailers were horrible for marketing the type of movie this was. Sure you end up with ambiguity, leaning towards depressing, but the final acts by the character and his growth throughout the film make it much easier to diggest.

It's not like he just stands their and waits to get eaten.

[/quote] there's also no scene of Liam Neeson taking a breath of air after the final scene. In fact, The Grey cuts to the credits before the final fight even begins. Therefore its up to the viewer to decide if he lives or dies. Which is unlike ME3 High EMS Destroy, where it literally shows him ALIVE. No need to wonder....he's alive. The only thing thats up in the air is "how does Shepard spend threst of his days?". Which is completely up to the player now that you know he survived, only you know how your Shep would live.

I actually thought the Grey's ending was awesome and quite poetic in contrast to the way Liam Neesons characters mindset changes. In the beginning he wants to take his own life. In the end, he's willing to fight for his life even though there's nothing to go home to....[/quote]

Actually there is a post-credits scene showing the aftermath of the fight. The wolf is still alive and Ottoway's head is resting on top of it, no indication if he is alive.

The underlying theme of the movie is living for the day, making the most of it even if its your last. Which is emphasized by Ottoway's father's poem. "Once more into the fray, into the last good fight I'll ever know. Live and die on this day. . . Live and die on this day. . ."

The writers of ME3 wrote it with the same mindset, Mac Walters himself even said on a blog post a week before the game came out that "not everybody is going to like the ending" and that the point of the game is a goodbye, to the characters, the story, everything. And even mentioned that old quote "It's not the destination, but the journey that matters." Which is the point of the Grey as well.

True, the Grey and Mass Effect 3 may not end the way everybody wanted it to. But you gotta admit, it was a hell of a ride. Thwarting Saren, bringing down the Collectors, and uniting the galaxy behind you to stop the Reapers from destroying everyone.
[/quote] you can't tell if Ottoway is alive. Which is exactly why his fate is different than Shepards. You don't know if he lived or died. Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

However, while that's a major difference.....the endings are similar in a way, I guess.


P.S. I'm pretty sure the wolf isnt going to make it. Ottoway wouldn't be laying on it in that way had he not been victorious. (That's not saying he didn't die in order to achieve victory)[/quote]

in the movie Gray, the hero guy is like soooooo ate by wolves it ain't funny. The whole story is about 'choosing' how you go  out, with a bang or a whimper.. Macho stuff.. I thought it kind of dry toast myself...But yes the guy get's eaten, but not without one last 'hurrah', it's the least he could do.

the others picked their own way to demise, kind of. I'd of used the airplane for weapons and shields. Those doggies would step back or get eaten.. before I froze solid..or.. ran into a pack of them with gloves coated with beer bottles..sheesh.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:53 .

[3DandBeyond]

gw2005 wrote...

Coreniro wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Coreniro wrote...

The guy on ign writes about "rewards". An end isn't supposed to be a reward for those who get there. This arguement about the hundreds of hours invested in the game, only to get a reward in the end, is pure bull****. The reward I get from the hours I've played is the hundreds of things I've seen and done, not a stupid price in the end.
That guy on ign is delusional. Talking about giving every single person the ending they want just because it's an rpg. Yeah, there's no problem in doing that.

You speak the truth, in that part and just in that part

One day you'll understand that not everything you dislike is bad or wrong. You and the 18 year-old **** who's blogging on IGN.

Woah there, unless you just aged yourself out of the targeted demographic, know that you just ruined your own argument with a highschool level insult. Congratz.

Actually, the gaming demographics have changed, but game devs don't seem to want it to.  It now skews much older than before and is more diverse, gender-wise.  For males the fastest growing segment is over 20 and females are also becoming more prevalent (but I already knew that and could tell based upon those that play games now).  Devs are going for a demographic that is rapidly vanishing and that has a lot less money than it had before.  And they do that because that group is less likely to care so much to try and demand their money back.  That group also used to get mom and dad "shut up" money for DLC and everything else.

The post referenced here that states that games aren't supposed to have rewards is dead wrong.  Every story is supposed to have them, it's called the payoff and that is what a satisfying ending is-note that I did not say just a happy ending.  I said satisfying.  That is an ending that features an emotional payoff as well as one that ties up loose ends.  Games and stories do feature rewards.  And one of the most often repeated things is that it's the journey that's the most important and not the destination and that is a ridiculous statement.  As he said, both matter.  But if it's a great journey punctuated with the most horrid destination, no one will really care that much how they got where they did.  Such a statement is often made only by those that seek to apologize for someone who created a bad ending. 

Read a book.  You don't hear many people saying, "the ending stunk but it was ok in the middle, so read it."  Instead, you might more often hear, "the story was not so great, but the ending blew me away, so it's a definite read."  Only in videogames will you routinely hear people thinking bad endings are just normal and are ok.  So, devs don't often work too hard to make them better since people don't care.

[WhiteKnyght]

FreshRevenge wrote...

 That's funny Mass Effect 3 is on a list on How not to end a game! BIOWARE WAKE THE FRAK UP AND GET WITH THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HATES THE ENDING!

IGN gave ME3 high reviews. A single person made that list.

Matter of fact: Mass Effect 3 is highly rated from practically every major critic. Metacritic, IGN, Game Spot, G4, etc. 7-9 out of 10 is the average.

Plus ME3 is GOTY for Game Informer, PC Gamer, and MSNBC. And Best RPG of 2012 at Spike.

Meaning nobody GAF about a forum of disgruntled fans and one dissatisfied employee.

Game Informer even elaborated on why ME3 is their GOTY, look it up, you might learn something.

[Wayning_Star]

3DandBeyond wrote...

gw2005 wrote...

Coreniro wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Coreniro wrote...

The guy on ign writes about "rewards". An end isn't supposed to be a reward for those who get there. This arguement about the hundreds of hours invested in the game, only to get a reward in the end, is pure bull****. The reward I get from the hours I've played is the hundreds of things I've seen and done, not a stupid price in the end.
That guy on ign is delusional. Talking about giving every single person the ending they want just because it's an rpg. Yeah, there's no problem in doing that.

You speak the truth, in that part and just in that part

One day you'll understand that not everything you dislike is bad or wrong. You and the 18 year-old **** who's blogging on IGN.

Woah there, unless you just aged yourself out of the targeted demographic, know that you just ruined your own argument with a highschool level insult. Congratz.

Actually, the gaming demographics have changed, but game devs don't seem to want it to.  It now skews much older than before and is more diverse, gender-wise.  For males the fastest growing segment is over 20 and females are also becoming more prevalent (but I already knew that and could tell based upon those that play games now).  Devs are going for a demographic that is rapidly vanishing and that has a lot less money than it had before.  And they do that because that group is less likely to care so much to try and demand their money back.  That group also used to get mom and dad "shut up" money for DLC and everything else.

The post referenced here that states that games aren't supposed to have rewards is dead wrong.  Every story is supposed to have them, it's called the payoff and that is what a satisfying ending is-note that I did not say just a happy ending.  I said satisfying.  That is an ending that features an emotional payoff as well as one that ties up loose ends.  Games and stories do feature rewards.  And one of the most often repeated things is that it's the journey that's the most important and not the destination and that is a ridiculous statement.  As he said, both matter.  But if it's a great journey punctuated with the most horrid destination, no one will really care that much how they got where they did.  Such a statement is often made only by those that seek to apologize for someone who created a bad ending. 

Read a book.  You don't hear many people saying, "the ending stunk but it was ok in the middle, so read it."  Instead, you might more often hear, "the story was not so great, but the ending blew me away, so it's a definite read."  Only in videogames will you routinely hear people thinking bad endings are just normal and are ok.  So, devs don't often work too hard to make them better since people don't care.

the baby boomers playing VG's..who'd of thought..lol

[N7-RedFox]

Please don't give Bioware reason to believe that what they did when they butchered ME3's ending was the right thing to do, OP.

[Wayning_Star]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

Please don't give Bioware reason to believe that what they did when they butchered ME3's ending was the right thing to do, OP.

many would have to give way to the assumptions in your post to consider 'right' from 'wrong'.. problematic at best.

[Kais Endac]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Kais Endac wrote...

 The ending of a game is one of the most important aspects of an rpg for me. It can.... 

• serve as a justification for the actions of the pc (ends justify the means)
• wrap up unfinished plot points and unanswered questions
• allow the player to choose the tone of his/her ending eg. Dark, Bittersweet, Happy, Evil, Good or any combination of these things.
• set the stage for a sequel
• bring up questions on things like Morality or even Mortality 

But the most important thing in an rpg (for me) is choice and the giving the choices fleshed out endings that do not leave speculation, I've said it before but the plausability of the crucible and the catalyst did not bother me, if the ending had satisfied me I could care less if the crucible was giant red off button that floated in space. (yea I'm simple like that^_^)

But the main problem I had with the ending is the fact that for the enitre trilogy a main theme in the games were victory despite the odds, Shepard made a career on doing the impossible. I recognise the fact he had never faced odds as bad as ME3 before but would it have been that bad to give one possible ending where shepard is not either dead or lying in a pile of rubble.

The current endings cater to those that like dark or bittersweet endings whereas those that actually want Shepard to survive and see his recovery (even if it was only like the final scene for ME1 where csec agents are sorting though the rubble and find shep) they have to headcanon his recovery.

Oh well I suppose it's too late now anyway, I really need to stop playing this game but bioware made the story and characters too engaging (damn you bioware) anyway after my little rant I have to acknowledge that even though the ending will likely never change and I will ner be fond of said endings the trilogy is too good not to play.

                       
On a sidenote I always found it odd that  IGN and the like was so quick to call people "entitled whiners" after all the only reason they are in buisness today is because of the support and money consumers have given them in the past, they are media outlets that need consumer support (even if they are in the pockets of major publishers like people claim) and to call parts of your consumer base whiners does not seem like a smart move especially if you wish to keep your credibility (especially when their concerns were valid). Although I suppose the various threats and abuse that bioware employees had to endure was a validation of these claims. (Anyone feel free to correct me I have no head for buisness and I'm probably looking at it the wrong way)

IGN and the like say it because it is true. Mass Effect fans are more oversensitive than Star Trek fans, who are practicially a religious organization these days.

Seeing things like Shepard's "recovery" contribute nothing to the game's plot. Knowing that he is alive(the breath) is a reward for a good playthrough. You don't need to know any more because it's common sense and you're not five years old. You should be able to figure out things. The thing about most RPGs are that they cater to younger audiences.

Yes thank you for the insult I only pointed out my point of view I personally would have liked to see Shepard actually being recovered it adds more closure to the game than him simply lying down in the rubble.

I know he survives heck the file header in the video file that people found says something like shepard lives I was meerly pointing out my own views.
I like the choices. Sometimes my Shepard sacrifices himself for the greater good (mainly not killing the geth and edi) others he choose's destroy as a said my major and only concern with the ending revolves around the surival choice, after playing the game for god knows how many hours to get a 2 second easter egg where shep takes one breath is my only major problem and even though I know he survives it stains my own perception of that ending.

As for the IGN thing not everyone is an entiled whiner and some articles I read painted every one who didn't like the ending with the same brush I know I didn't go around shouting insults or anything of the kind I still love ME and bioware. But my point remains printing articles like that does not seem like a good idea there were far better ways to go about things than how some of the articles went. This includes those people who raged at bioware employees, these people had worked on ME3 for a long time and there are so many good aspects to ME3.... to have it spat back in their faces was just wrong.

in my opinion the original endings were terrible but the EC added more closure I still dislike some parts and my perception of the endings is tained but the EC did make things better, Now I only really dislike the destroy ending.

Modifié par Kais Endac, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:06 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:01 .

[3DandBeyond]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Kais Endac wrote...

snipped...

                       
On
a sidenote I always found it odd that  IGN and the like was so quick to call people "entitled whiners" after all the only reason they are in buisness today is because of the support and money consumers have given
them in the past, they are media outlets that need consumer support (even if they are in the pockets of major publishers like people claim) and to call parts of your consumer base whiners does not seem like a
smart move especially if you wish to keep your credibility (especially when their concerns were valid). Although I suppose the various threats and abuse that bioware employees had to endure was a validation of these
claims. (Anyone feel free to correct me I have no head for buisness and I'm probably looking at it the wrong way)

IGN and the like say it because it is true. Mass Effect fans are more oversensitive than Star Trek fans, who are practicially a religious organization these days.

Seeing things like Shepard's "recovery" contribute nothing to the game's plot. Knowing that he is alive(the breath) is a reward for a good playthrough. You don't need to know any more because it's common sense and you're not five years old. You should be able to figure out things. The thing about most RPGs are that they cater to younger audiences.

God, do you ever say anything constructive and not take every opportunity to belittle people?

Customers with accurate and real complaints about what the seller of a product said are not whiners and are not self-entitled.  For you Shepard's fate doesn't matter much, but that's you.  And you have said you are happy with what you got, and that's fine.  Prove that you are happy and act graciously about it.  You know, when I'm enjoying something I want everyone to enjoy it.  I actually seek to find out why people are not happy about the thing I like.  And I don't find it necessary to insult them because they don't agree with me.

People take the time to actually explain the issues (so nice to call them 5 year olds if they disagree with you) and they are not you, they have their own wishes and desires.  Bioware set this up and made them believe that some things would happen and Bioware dropped the ball.  For the millionth time, though I doubt you will read this, people are aware of the fact and can often imagine anything they want about the endings, but a lot of people do still want to see it because that is part of the story.  The story remains unfinished and is not an appropriate way to end a story that was told from the perspective of the hero, Shepard who was our avatar in the game.  We saw things through Shepard's eyes. 

This is lost on you because I just recently explained all of this in another thread where you were equally demeaning and claimed all people wanted was some silly happy ending so you should already know this is not what is being said.  But, people want something better than what we have.  It's doubtful BW will do what they should and make additions to the endings that fit in with the Shepard's they made possible for us to play-because of dialogue they wrote.  These endings are cookie cutter endings and one size does not fit all, except for some like you who apparently think that actually role-playing a game means you don't really need to do that at the end. 

When you role play, you actually are supposed to be seeing things through a certain character's POV from start to finish.  And, at the end the role is deserving of some sort of decent ending.  A great story if sacrifice must happen, and due to the attitude and internal promises of the ME 3 part story, a way to win all and save Shepard as well.  And as part of a true epilog and closure there is nothing that would harm you if others got to have real closure to this story.  You act as if this would ruin your life or something if people actually got something that worked for them.  How nice to be so happy in what you have that you don't want others to have the same for them.


@Kais Endac,

The thing is the self-entitled whiners comments were directed at anyone who didn't like the endings.  IGN and others that said this were not paying attention to what people were saying.

This should never have been wrapped up with anyone that was actually threatening harm or any of that.  And the threats should have been handled (though some may well have been) appropriately.  Ban the user, in fact ban the IP.  And where necessary or possible, involve law enforcement.  But don't paint everyone with the same brush.  I never threatened anyone, and yet some view us all as dirt between their toes.  We bought a product that had promises attached to it and a product that we even loved.  We were all fans.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:14 .

[Legion of 1337]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

Modifié par Legion of 1337, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:17 .

[Kais Endac]

3DandBeyond wrote...

God, do you ever say anything constructive and not take every opportunity to belittle people?

Customers with accurate and real complaints about what the seller of a product said are not whiners and are not self-entitled.  For you Shepard's fate doesn't matter much, but that's you.  And you have said you are happy with what you got, and that's fine.  Prove that you are happy and act graciously about it.  You know, when I'm enjoying something I want everyone to enjoy it.  I actually seek to find out why people are not happy about the thing I like.  And I don't find it necessary to insult them because they don't agree with me.

People take the time to actually explain the issues (so nice to call them 5 year olds if they disagree with you) and they are not you, they have their own wishes and desires.  Bioware set this up and made them believe that some things would happen and Bioware dropped the ball.  For the millionth time, though I doubt you will read this, people are aware of the fact and can often imagine anything they want about the endings, but a lot of people do still want to see it because that is part of the story.  The story remains unfinished and is not an appropriate way to end a story that was told from the perspective of the hero, Shepard who was our avatar in the game.  We saw things through Shepard's eyes. 

This is lost on you because I just recently explained all of this in another thread where you were equally demeaning and claimed all people wanted was some silly happy ending so you should already know this is not what is being said.  But, people want something better than what we have.  It's doubtful BW will do what they should and make additions to the endings that fit in with the Shepard's they made possible for us to play-because of dialogue they wrote.  These endings are cookie cutter endings and one size does not fit all, except for some like you who apparently think that actually role-playing a game means you don't really need to do that at the end. 

When you role play, you actually are supposed to be seeing things through a certain character's POV from start to finish.  And, at the end the role is deserving of some sort of decent ending.  A great story if sacrifice must happen, and due to the attitude and internal promises of the ME 3 part story, a way to win all and save Shepard as well.  And as part of a true epilog and closure there is nothing that would harm you if others got to have real closure to this story.  You act as if this would ruin your life or something if people actually got something that worked for them.  How nice to be so happy in what you have that you don't want others to have the same for them.

Thank you 

Thats is exactly how I felt reading that post.

I've heard the saying believing is seeing and that is how I should look at Shepard's survival, however I much prefer seeing is believing and to actually see his survial in the ending would have been better for me (actually i would have loved it). However the fact that people do love the ending shows that the endings did work and that bioware's vison is valid, it just missed some aspects for me. 

Modifié par Kais Endac, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .

[crimzontearz]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

[Legion of 1337]

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

No there isn't. But there isn't any other logical way to interpret it from a story perspective.

Let's think about this:


All the other endings just end with the ship flying off. Shepard is clearly dead.
High EMS Destroy has Shepard's name NOT being put on the memorial wall, and him breathing in the very last shot.

Now think: WHY would that be put in there if he is indeed supposed to DIE?
It does not make sense to show him to breathe - meaning he's alive - and then have him die immediately afterward but not show it.

The reason it is shown in the last shot is because it is supposed to be a surprise because you assume until that moment that Shepard is dead and then - surprise! He's not!

THAT makes sense.

[TheRealJayDee]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

This got nothing to do with conspiracy caps and I agree that your interpretation of the scene is likely what was intended by including it. Thing is, I really want Shep to get out of this mess alive, but the breath scene we got in the context of the ending makes it pretty much impossible for me to interpret it the way you do. They probably should have just put in a scene that actually makes clear that Shepard not only is alive at the moment of the scene, but also likely a few minutes/hours/days after it.



edit: Actually, **** this. Until the MEHEM mod is finished I go with the ending Bioware gave me originally. My canon Shep is dead.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:28 .

[Iakus]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

The reason it is shown in the last shot is because it is supposed to be a surprise because you assume until that moment that Shepard is dead and then - surprise! He's not!

THAT makes sense.

You know what makes more sense?  Climbing out of the rubble and limping to the rescue team while wearing a big stupid grin.

It's got more of that....whadayacallit?...closure!

Modifié par iakus, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:27 .

[3DandBeyond]

crimzontearz wrote...
then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

Yes, you can't set this all up and say it's up to the player to head canon their own ending.  And when they say it sucks that Shepard must have died and they wanted him/her to live, to tell them they're stupid for thinking s/he died.

But that's a prevalent opinion here.  You must head canon things to make the endings work if everything Shepard said and did in your game doesn't fit any lovely awesome vastly different choice.  However, you are only allowed to head canon everything one way.  And no way are you ever allowed to head canon too much because then you're just a poopey head for believing crazy things. 

The only authorized head canon is that which aligns with the choices as explained in threads created by those who like the endings.  Otherwise, you are experiencing unauthorized head canoning which will be confiscated and summarily destroyed.  Please see the official notice of allowed head canon and adjust your imaginations appropriately.

[Legion of 1337]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

This got nothing to do with conspiracy caps and I agree that your interpretation of the scene is likely what was intended by including it. Thing is, I really want Shep to get out of this mess alive, but the breath scene we got in the context of the ending makes it pretty much impossible for me to interpret it the way you do. They probably should have just put in a scene that actually makes clear that Shepard not only is alive at the moment of the scene, but also likely a few minutes/hours/days after it.



edit: Actually, **** this. Until the MEHEM mod is finished I go with the ending Bioware gave me originally. My canon Shep is dead.

Ok, I see - so you just don't agree with the way they tried to reveal his survival. Fair opinion.

[crimzontearz]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

No there isn't. But there isn't any other logical way to interpret it from a story perspective.

Let's think about this:


All the other endings just end with the ship flying off. Shepard is clearly dead.
High EMS Destroy has Shepard's name NOT being put on the memorial wall, and him breathing in the very last shot.

Now think: WHY would that be put in there if he is indeed supposed to DIE?
It does not make sense to show him to breathe - meaning he's alive - and then have him die immediately afterward but not show it.

The reason it is shown in the last shot is because it is supposed to be a surprise because you assume until that moment that Shepard is dead and then - surprise! He's not!

THAT makes sense.

you mean like...surprise Lelianna is not really dead? I am sorry at this point I really do not trust them and without you shutting off your brain and ignoring the context and listen just to author intent all signs point to the fact he would not survive

[Legion of 1337]

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Whereas Shepard is literally alive and breathes.

Yes, he is alive in the moment we see him ("him" meaning a torso in some rubble). Given the state Shep was in before he met the Starchild and what happens with the Citadel and considering the situation outside the Citadel I just don't see how he's supposed to survive. At all. But okay, the problem is just my lacking imagination and my secret wish to see the character I played over 100 hours to die miserably and alone. Let me work on that...


...yeah, okay I'm ready. He was alive when I last saw him, therefore he lives happily ever after. It's clear, it's logical, I get it now. My new canon ending:

Shepard spends the rest of his days in Australia, sipping drinks with Butch and Sundance.

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

No there isn't. But there isn't any other logical way to interpret it from a story perspective.

Let's think about this:


All the other endings just end with the ship flying off. Shepard is clearly dead.
High EMS Destroy has Shepard's name NOT being put on the memorial wall, and him breathing in the very last shot.

Now think: WHY would that be put in there if he is indeed supposed to DIE?
It does not make sense to show him to breathe - meaning he's alive - and then have him die immediately afterward but not show it.

The reason it is shown in the last shot is because it is supposed to be a surprise because you assume until that moment that Shepard is dead and then - surprise! He's not!

THAT makes sense.

you mean like...surprise Lelianna is not really dead? I am sorry at this point I really do not trust them and without you shutting off your brain and ignoring the context and listen just to author intent all signs point to the fact he would not survive

I again ask you why the scene would be included if he were dead like in every other ending?

[crimzontearz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
then there is no sense in going on record saying it is up for interpretation especially when it pisees people off

oh wait

Yes, you can't set this all up and say it's up to the player to head canon their own ending.  And when they say it sucks that Shepard must have died and they wanted him/her to live, to tell them they're stupid for thinking s/he died.

But that's a prevalent opinion here.  You must head canon things to make the endings work if everything Shepard said and did in your game doesn't fit any lovely awesome vastly different choice.  However, you are only allowed to head canon everything one way.  And no way are you ever allowed to head canon too much because then you're just a poopey head for believing crazy things. 

The only authorized head canon is that which aligns with the choices as explained in threads created by those who like the endings.  Otherwise, you are experiencing unauthorized head canoning which will be confiscated and summarily destroyed.  Please see the official notice of allowed head canon and adjust your imaginations appropriately.

separation of storytelling and agency.....people do not see the problem with the lack of this in modern video RPGS

[Kais Endac]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

How many times do I have to repeat this to people? Everyone's got conspiracy caps on here.

There is no point in puting that scene in there if he's supposed to be dead. That would make no sense.

This got nothing to do with conspiracy caps and I agree that your interpretation of the scene is likely what was intended by including it. Thing is, I really want Shep to get out of this mess alive, but the breath scene we got in the context of the ending makes it pretty much impossible for me to interpret it the way you do. They probably should have just put in a scene that actually makes clear that Shepard not only is alive at the moment of the scene, but also likely a few minutes/hours/days after it.



edit: Actually, **** this. Until the MEHEM mod is finished I go with the ending Bioware gave me originally. My canon Shep is dead.

Ok, I see - so you just don't agree with the way they tried to reveal his survival. Fair opinion.

I think the length of the reveal is a problem for some as well the scene is perhaps two three seconds of a game that takes about thirty hours to complete, ninety on average if you've played all three. After all that investment where some people have tried to gain the ultimate outcome of each choice, to get a scene where Shep takes one breath
and the memorial scene does not live up to expectations. Head canon is a valid solution but people want ot actually see it happen in game as a reward for playing.

Modifié par Kais Endac, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:47 .