2398 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

I was thinking of getting more games for my New 3DS from Kangaroo land, so I'm considering Awakening as the next one.. Basically just buying games for my Nintendo consoles at the moment as I feel there are quite a few solid titles on the Wii-U and 3DS I want to own and play.

 

Get it. Totally get it.

 

Somehow I got back into Awakening for no clear reason. I want to geek out about it more. And possibly write character sketches for OC children of other parents, or outline how I think that the Avatar should have been Grima all along and done away with the unexplained apocalypse thingie angle for a good old Light/Dark dichtomy.

 

'Grima, Deity of Darkness and Family, destroying the world because someone kidnapped its child in the distant past' is so much more epic (and reasoned out) in my head.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's because navigating Tokyo is a f*cking nightmare. I literally rage quit that game for months because of the map. BUT if you can get past that, and the Smirk system making this more annoying than Nocturne in some regards, it's an alright game.

 

Oh yeah, and completing the Neutral route is lowkey retarded.

 

But other than THAT...

 

I remember playing Nocturne. That was the game that made me reconsider my idea of God. Not because Big Y is a total jerk in the Megami universe, but because the idea of the Heavenly Host using a 'Might Makes Right' philosophy to (re)create the world both terrified me and yet made total sense. It was alarming how the Heavenly Host could be so close to demonic gangland yakuza brutes.

 

I wouldn't say it made me doubt, but the whole idea of the Reasons to build the world around made me think.

 

 

I also remember playing with a player's guide/handbook that had all the maps pegged out. I never would have tolerated the game without them.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Okay, judging from later posts in this thread, you're talking about the only localized FE I've never had the opportunity to play.

And it's on the Wii-U E-shop. Why was I not aware of this? When did this happen? Why am I not playing it RIGHT NOW

...I just checked. Yes. There it is. $7.99. Well, there goes the remainder of my weekend. Thanks for the heads up!

No problem.

[Dean_the_Young]

That continues in SMT IV. Although the ideas behind how one should shape the world aren't called Reasons. It's just Law, Neutral, Chaos, and another I can only guess is Nihilism. Shin Megami Tensei is special in that regard, where you don't have a typical sense of righteousness from any of the factions involved. It's more about if you agree with the percieved benifits of aligning yourself with a particular morality while accepting the obvious and harsh extremities of each path.

 

Oddly I've never been that interested in anything other than Nocturne. Something about the remaking of the world ushering back demons and gods hit with me, but never really got back with the general post-apocalypse of the others.

 

To bring this vaguely back to Fire Emblem, it'd be like not digging Lords (or primary protagonists) with Blue Hair. It's always gotta be Blue Hair, right?

[Dean_the_Young]

I knew Intelligent Systems was haircist. Those bastards. I seriously do want a Lord who doesn't have blue hair though. Maybe a black haired Lord.

 

Well, technically that was Eliwood and Roy. They had flaming red hair. But then, Eliwood had Hector (blue hair) and Lyn (who's hair goes from green to turquoise/blue depending on the art).

 

I don't think Roy had a blue haired counterpart? (No, Super Smash Brothers aside it's not Marth.)

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah I remember that noob Eliwood. And I guess Lyn counts too. Actually another female protagonist would be cool. As long she doesn't come off as naive as Lyndis or Eirika. Especially Eirika.

 

I don't really care for Lucina. She's only cool becaue Laura Bailey voices her

 

I liked Lucina because I just generally buy into the whole 'children forced to grow up too fast' dystopian angst angle. She was simultaneously a mature young woman, and... well, a girl forced to grow up too fast but still a girl. The maturity-immaturity thing. Plus, the whole murder confrontation scene was a high-point in the story- especially if your character was mother or lover. Really drove home how serious she was about it.

 

Owain had his moments from the other side as well- normally silly, but sometimes serious. Or was that Inigo?

 

 

 

Speaking of hair discrimination, I think I just remembered one. Don't most Fire Emblem games have a red head who is some sort of star-crossed but ill-fated lover? Cordellia for Chrom, Eliwood was crying over Ninian, Sain had the hots for Lyndis...

 

If you've got red hair, wath out.

[Seraphim24]

I liked Lucina because she's cute

 

Eh, sure it's not this?

[TheChris92]

Haha. That is the trick, isn't it? Plus the whole exponential pairing growth for the writing- Awakening already hurt when some of it's non-DLC characters got the shaft for dialogue. (Looking at you, Sayri.)

 

The Persona model works because you have a good half-year (game and real time, lol) to work through the ten-parts for pacing. And with ten pieces, you can totally spread out the developments and control the pacing. Three... not so much (though far better than two). But the tradeoff for that was that most characters never interacted. Outside of your core cast of team mates, most social links never so much as acknowledged the existence of others. You had depth and honest-to-god arcs, but not much breadth.

 

Fire Emblem is a lot shorter on the depth, but makes up for it in the number of character interaction matches. You get more inter-play between those personalities, which is the fun for some people. On the other hand, as you mention lack of opportunity for character development does mean being more prone to charicatures. The only people who get honest-to-god character arcs are the minute core cast of lords: Chrom gets his in the first two acts, Lucina deals with the future, but not much more.  Everyone else needs/wants at least two (preferably three) character traits to base characters around for a sense of variety. Frederick gets to be 'Frederick the Wary,' 'Frederick the Fitness Trainer/Aid,' and 'Frederick the Goofy Fanboy.' But if you aren't so lucky, you can become a One Note character.

 

Which isn't to say that 'distinctive character tells' isn't something that Persona never had issues with either. Minor social links in particular could be oversimplified one-topic links. But it's harder to avoid when you have less development opportunities.

 

TL;DR: I totally agree with you, and here's why.

The Persona model also benefits from having a great sense of progression in regards to its social links -- Having each link be available at certain days, times and circumstances makes for a more authentic experience, it benefits the impact each of them have on the player. I also liked how the game utilized the concepts of time, as how one usually recognize them in your average game, in Persona they are either defined by the agency of the player or the so-called real-time (game time) but in 3 one will find a mixture between both inside Tartarus.

Anyway, suffice to say, I love how it's implemented in the Persona games, obviously, and it'll be interesting to see how interaction is utilized in Fire Emblem.

[Dean_the_Young]

Eh, sure it's not this?

 

If I wanted to date to date someone who looked like a young boy, I'd date a young boy.

 

 

...or so I'd say, but she was way to obvious.

[Seraphim24]

If I wanted to date to date someone who looked like a young boy, I'd date a young boy.

 

 

...or so I'd say, but she was way to obvious.

 

Well that wasn't shifty at all.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well that wasn't shifty at all.

 

Ouch. Now that I've had some sleep, I see it. Not what I meant.

 

I just meant that even when she tried to disguise herself as a guy, it wasn't very convincing.

 

 

 

Had the idea to finally get another Gameboy Advance SP with both Fire Emblem games from Amazon but that dream got dashed real quick. $99 each. F*ck that. I haven't been this letdown by a price gouge since I went looking for a copy of Persona 2: Eternal Punishment for PlayStation. Which I saw on Amazon for $200.

 

That is rough. I feel you, man.

 

Looking back at the support scripts for older games, I'm surprised how few and sparse their dialogue actually was. FE7 at least was, like, almost non-existent: I'm betting most of the characters didn't even have two entire word pages of text.

[Shepenwepet]

Looking back at the support scripts for older games, I'm surprised how few and sparse their dialogue actually was. FE7 at least was, like, almost non-existent: I'm betting most of the characters didn't even have two entire word pages of text.

 

Wow, that's discouraging. I've yet to get ANY support conversations, and I'm on chapter...13? There doesn't seem to be a way to see who can be supported, unless I'm overlooking it somewhere. I figured the eons-long tutorial would have mentioned something about it, but nope. Some pairs I assume are support partners like Eliwood and Hector, Kent and Sain, etc... but there's no way to tell unless I look online, which I really don't want to do because my eyes will wander. (I'm probably still gonna.)

 

It feels like home, though. Missing enemies with an 80% chance to hit while they 56% / 3% critical me. Ahh. So much fun.

 

Really, though, it's great. Felt a bit...out of sorts until they gave me an archer. And then they gave me a base-class archer ON A HORSE, and all was forgiven. 

 

They're still not doing much to make me like fighters, though. I mean, look at Dorcas.

Look at him, that expression. He doesn't want to be a part of all this. At least I assume so because he doesn't seem to even try to hit things. And when he does and finally goes up a level, he gets abysmal stat growths. And he's the only one who does. 

 

I have yet to use a fighter for longer than I have to, other than for support grinding, and it looks like that isn't gonna change here. 

[Cyonan]

Wow, that's discouraging. I've yet to get ANY support conversations, and I'm on chapter...13? There doesn't seem to be a way to see who can be supported, unless I'm overlooking it somewhere. I figured the eons-long tutorial would have mentioned something about it, but nope. Some pairs I assume are support partners like Eliwood and Hector, Kent and Sain, etc... but there's no way to tell unless I look online, which I really don't want to do because my eyes will wander. (I'm probably still gonna.)

 

It feels like home, though. Missing enemies with an 80% chance to hit while they 56% / 3% critical me. Ahh. So much fun.

 

Really, though, it's great. Felt a bit...out of sorts until they gave me an archer. And then they gave me a base-class archer ON A HORSE, and all was forgiven. 

 

They're still not doing much to make me like fighters, though. I mean, look at Dorcas.

Look at him, that expression. He doesn't want to be a part of all this. At least I assume so because he doesn't seem to even try to hit things. And when he does and finally goes up a level, he gets abysmal stat growths. And he's the only one who does. 

 

I have yet to use a fighter for longer than I have to, other than for support grinding, and it looks like that isn't gonna change here. 

 

I believe in the preparation menu before a battle you can go into the support section and it'll list everybody you can support with as well as the current ranking with them. What it doesn't tell you is that you can only have 5 support conversations per character.

 

As far as unlocking them all that needs to be done is having the two supporting characters sitting next to each other at the end of a round. If you're on a map where the boss doesn't move, you can farm supports by spamming next turn with only the boss alive. Keep in mind you can only get 1 conversation per pairing on each level so if you get a C support between Hector and Eliwood you have to go to the next map to get the B support.

 

They also require a different number of turns depending on the pairing. Hector and Eliwood is actually one of the quickest ones to get.

 

For Fighters I find Dorcas to be not as good as Bartre because his speed is just awful. In either case neither of them are terribly amazing early in the game, but can become powerhouses later on. Also, never ever put them up against Myrmidons or Swordmasters unless you have a swordreaver/slayer axe to reverse the triangle.

 

Alternatively, just use Sain since he's basically a mounted Fighter that gets access to the entire weapon triangle upon promotion.

[Shepenwepet]

I believe in the preparation menu before a battle you can go into the support section and it'll list everybody you can support with as well as the current ranking with them. What it doesn't tell you is that you can only have 5 support conversations per character.

That's the first place I checked, as it was there in Sacred Stones. Unless it's just not available in Lyn's chapters/tutorial, it isn't there. The battle I'm on right now (I'm in Eliwood's chapters now) has no prep screen at all so I can't check. I think the prep screen will only start showing when I have too many units?

It has to be there, though. There's no other place it could be, there's no base. There's a 'support chance' page in the unit menu which is blank, but that will only show when I can actually trigger a conversation, I believe.
 

For Fighters I find Dorcas to be not as good as Bartre because his speed is just awful. In either case neither of them are terribly amazing early in the game, but can become powerhouses later on. Also, never ever put them up against Myrmidons or Swordmasters unless you have a swordreaver/slayer axe to reverse the triangle.
 
Alternatively, just use Sain since he's basically a mounted Fighter that gets access to the entire weapon triangle upon promotion.

I've never had a fighter with decent speed or skill. Ever. I dislike axes, they're way too inaccurate (if it's 65% or less to hit, I back out), coupled with typical fighter stat growths I find they're just not reliable. On a wyvern rider, they're different. Haar with a steel axe stuffed at the top of a single-width staircase is a joy indeed. Boyd not so much.

 

But yeah, if I need an axe (it's rare for that to happen, weapon triangle be damned, lance vs lance is plenty good enough) I use wyverns. But I'm much more at home with a squad full of mages and archers. Impractical? Kinda. But they've never failed me before.

 

[Arcadian Legend]

Owain had his moments from the other side as well- normally silly, but sometimes serious. Or was that Inigo?

 

I think it was both Owain and Inigo, going off of my memory.

 

Lol damn, also another instance of Intelligent Systems' growing evil.  Can this tyranny be stopped in time? Will blue and red finally come together to make purple? Find out on the next episode of Drag- oh wait, wrong series.

 

Roy has a lot of romance supports that end in a paired ending. One of them being Hectors kid Lillina who has blue hair. It is worth noting though that he's commonly considered the weakest Lord in the entire franchise so there's the tradeoff I guess. Celica does get together with Alm in the end of the second game though so I guess there's an exception.

 

I have yet to use a fighter for longer than I have to, other than for support grinding, and it looks like that isn't gonna change here. 

 

Yeah, I think the only Fighter I've ever actually used all the way to the Endgame is Boyd in Path of Radiance and nowhere else. They just miss way too much for my own liking.

[Dean_the_Young]

That's the first place I checked, as it was there in Sacred Stones. Unless it's just not available in Lyn's chapters/tutorial, it isn't there. The battle I'm on right now (I'm in Eliwood's chapters now) has no prep screen at all so I can't check. I think the prep screen will only start showing when I have too many units?

It has to be there, though. There's no other place it could be, there's no base. There's a 'support chance' page in the unit menu which is blank, but that will only show when I can actually trigger a conversation, I believe.
 

I've never had a fighter with decent speed or skill. Ever. I dislike axes, they're way too inaccurate (if it's 65% or less to hit, I back out), coupled with typical fighter stat growths I find they're just not reliable. On a wyvern rider, they're different. Haar with a steel axe stuffed at the top of a single-width staircase is a joy indeed. Boyd not so much.

 

But yeah, if I need an axe (it's rare for that to happen, weapon triangle be damned, lance vs lance is plenty good enough) I use wyverns. But I'm much more at home with a squad full of mages and archers. Impractical? Kinda. But they've never failed me before.

 

 

I don't think you get any support links in Lyn's story, actually. Or at least I never did. I think it starts when you start the Eliwood storyline.

I think it was both Owain and Inigo, going off of my memory.

 

Ah, that's right.

 

Inigio gets to express angst is when his father calls him an irresponsible philanderer. And his more reasonable side shows up in the FemAvatar supports, when he's distributing health potions to everyone.

 

Owain... I'm trying to remember if he's ever serious, per say. He gets a guilt trip survivor angst with his father, but normally it's just showing that there's some thinking behind all the silliness. Like how he uses his epic sword fights as fighting simulations, or how his boasts of being the son of heroes is a reflection of his views of his parents.

 

 

 

 

Roy has a lot of romance supports that end in a paired ending. One of them being Hectors kid Lillina who has blue hair. It is worth noting though that he's commonly considered the weakest Lord in the entire franchise so there's the tradeoff I guess. Celica does get together with Alm in the end of the second game though so I guess there's an exception.

 

 

And Ninian has it bad for Eliwood, and she can survive.

 

It's less 'Red and Blue never get together' as it is 'there's always a red who doesn't get a blue.'

 

 

Yeah, I think the only Fighter I've ever actually used all the way to the Endgame is Boyd in Path of Radiance and nowhere else. They just miss way too much for my own liking.

 

 

 

Honestly the only axes I ever use are throwing ones. It's amazing how little I use any other kind.

[Cyonan]

That's the first place I checked, as it was there in Sacred Stones. Unless it's just not available in Lyn's chapters/tutorial, it isn't there. The battle I'm on right now (I'm in Eliwood's chapters now) has no prep screen at all so I can't check. I think the prep screen will only start showing when I have too many units?

It has to be there, though. There's no other place it could be, there's no base. There's a 'support chance' page in the unit menu which is blank, but that will only show when I can actually trigger a conversation, I believe.
 

I've never had a fighter with decent speed or skill. Ever. I dislike axes, they're way too inaccurate (if it's 65% or less to hit, I back out), coupled with typical fighter stat growths I find they're just not reliable. On a wyvern rider, they're different. Haar with a steel axe stuffed at the top of a single-width staircase is a joy indeed. Boyd not so much.

 

But yeah, if I need an axe (it's rare for that to happen, weapon triangle be damned, lance vs lance is plenty good enough) I use wyverns. But I'm much more at home with a squad full of mages and archers. Impractical? Kinda. But they've never failed me before.

 

 

I could have sworn that the one before Sacred Stones had it, but I could be remembering wrong.

 

To be honest I sort of feel like Berserkers in the GBA games overshadowed Warriors as they tend to have much better speed and a passive 15% increased crit chance(which I like more than the use of bows). Bartre is actually the only Fighter I'll use in any of the 3 GBA games, and even then I'd argue that Dart is a better pure axe user even with his poor skill.

 

Most of the time I find myself with Hector handling my axes though. He has a respectable skill growth, and the defense growth to back up not having the greatest speed. I also have Sain, Kent, Raven, or Harken to provide axes with lower strength if needed as well.

 

Mages and archers work well enough, provided you've got something on the front line to soak up hits like Wyverns, Generals, and Great Knights =P