233 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

So should we expect the Fallout series to suffer a massive case of streamlining after the success of Skyrim? Skyrim was really, really successful. What's stopping Bethesda from removing skills altogether and leaving only main attributes in place because they find spending skill points makes system redundant or some such nonsense?

If it is a next gen title, which seems likely, they will have a lot more freedom to expand on stuff like dynamic events, world interaction, NPC A.I., more actors onscreen at once, etc. The previous gen console memory and CPUs presented a lot of restrictions in this area.

[bussinrounds]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

So should we expect the Fallout series to suffer a massive case of streamlining after the success of Skyrim? Skyrim was really, really successful. What's stopping Bethesda from removing skills altogether and leaving only main attributes in place because they find spending skill points makes the gameplay mechanics redundant or some such nonsense?

Will they even take anything from New Vegas? I'd rather not be stuck with the silly karma system from Fallout 3.

   I think more streamlining might be a good way for Beth to go actually. Since they do make action games with RPG elements, maybe they can actually concentrate more on the action part and have some decent gameplay (combat) for a change. Not like their RPG mechanics or story elements are anything to lose sleep over anyway.

Instead of trying to do it all, making this all-encompassing RPG, thus spreading themselfs to thin and coming up lackluster in so many areas,  like they seem to do.

[legion999]

Ghost1017 wrote...
Ah yes...the short response of "no" because you can't think of anything to counter my argument. You could mention things like the factions, ads, or the sidequests but instead you chose to write a laughable response. As for what I mentioned, FNV felt rushed as with most Obsidian games but still a good(perhaps great) game in it's own right.

Ghost1017 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

As if a developer has to choose between focus on graphics or focus on gameplay or focus on story. That's ridiculous. Why can't a game have good graphics AND good gameplay AND a good story? 

...Oh wait, it can! The Witcher 2, Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 all has proven that a game can easily shine in all 3 departments (graphics, gameplay and story)!

Ah yes hypocrisy.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Talonfire wrote...
The Brotherhood of Steel do not imply that they know anything about the protagonist's exploits, which makes sense seeing as how they rarely seem to leave the Citadel. How Three Dog knows that the protagonist is responsible for all of these feats is never elaborated on or even implied, he simply knows.

Hmmm. OK, you have a point about the BOS, though really I think this is just a minor shortcoming of FO3 in general - there's something of an existing society, but we don't ever see much about how it manages to subsist or how they exchange information. Three Dog also reports on other things that have nothing to do with the Lone Wanderer (the ghouls trying to get into Tenpenny Tower, the costumed "superheroes" who keep stirring things up in Canterbury Commons), despite being fairly isolated at Galaxy News Radio.

[Ghost]

legion999 wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...
Ah yes...the short response of "no" because you can't think of anything to counter my argument. You could mention things like the factions, ads, or the sidequests but instead you chose to write a laughable response. As for what I mentioned, FNV felt rushed as with most Obsidian games but still a good(perhaps great) game in it's own right.

Ghost1017 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

As if a developer has to choose between focus on graphics or focus on gameplay or focus on story. That's ridiculous. Why can't a game have good graphics AND good gameplay AND a good story? 

...Oh wait, it can! The Witcher 2, Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 all has proven that a game can easily shine in all 3 departments (graphics, gameplay and story)!

Ah yes hypocrisy.

That is not even hypocrisy.

Modifié par Ghost1017, 11 janvier 2013 - 03:11 .

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

I think the RPG mechanics in Skyrim are robust, and a majority or the streamlining actual legitimate streamlining. Skyrim is stuffed to the gills with statistics. What they did was interesting and fun...while not perfect. But damn good.

I understand the desire for individual levelling of specific skills with skill points. I like that, too. But the more you do something, logically, you would think you would get better at it. This doesn't apply to armor, obviously, but its a video game. I like having to earn my skill instead of getting better at Restoration by running side errands or swimming in a corner for an hour then deciding I can max restoration.

I wouldn't mind the same setup for Fallout. Earn your skill by doing it and succeeding. Isn't that how we all get good at stuff?

[Gatt9]

sympathy4sarenreturns wrote...

I think the RPG mechanics in Skyrim are robust, and a majority or the streamlining actual legitimate streamlining. Skyrim is stuffed to the gills with statistics. What they did was interesting and fun...while not perfect. But damn good.

I understand the desire for individual levelling of specific skills with skill points. I like that, too. But the more you do something, logically, you would think you would get better at it. This doesn't apply to armor, obviously, but its a video game. I like having to earn my skill instead of getting better at Restoration by running side errands or swimming in a corner for an hour then deciding I can max restoration.

I wouldn't mind the same setup for Fallout. Earn your skill by doing it and succeeding. Isn't that how we all get good at stuff?

What RPG mechanics?  They removed everything and replaced it with Player Skill,  the polar opposite of an RPG mechanic.  The few mechanics they couldn't replace with Player Skill,  they simply removed (Stats being a great example,  because apparently the entire team doesn't understand the concept of a Character).

Levels abstractly represent you getting better as you do something,  it's done that way in order to avoid Bethesda game's chronic problem of highly exploitable skill progression and the situations they generate that border on nonsensical (Bunny hop everywhere you go,  shoot a fire spell at a tree for an hour).

Skill-use systems are plagued by these issues,  the mechanic is so inherently flawed that it pleads with Players to spend most of their time doing something quite silly as they play,  making it a inadvertent comedy at best,  and just absolutely broken at worst (See Oblivion).

I honestly can't say anything good about Bethesda's work,  or Bethesda at all given my experiences.  Quite honestly,  and I've said this before,  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

Modifié par Gatt9, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:11 .

[bussinrounds]

It's a terrible rpg mechanic (the more you do it/use it, the better you get at it)

In the real world it might make more sense, but this isn't reality, it's a fantasy rpg and who gives a you know what about realism. The mechanic just doesn't translate well to a game. Forget about how abusable/easily broken and unbalanced their systems are.

Edit:  Gatt pretty much beat me to it. 

Modifié par bussinrounds, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:22 .

[Addai]

The haters are out in force, I see.

Gatt9 wrote...

I honestly can't say anything good about Bethesda's work,  or Bethesda at all given my experiences.  Quite honestly,  and I've said this before,  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

So you have no reason to post here, eh?

[slimgrin]

Gatt9 wrote...

  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

I'd rather see EA develop a next gen version of checkers and even then I'm pretty sure they'd f*ck it up.

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

I respect your opinions. I honestly understand...I feel the same way about what I know about Dark Souls II sofar.

Anyways...overall...I am hopeful for an official announcement soon. This is going to be a great year for games. We cannot fathom yet how awesome these new generation of games are going to be when we witness them for the first time. I might pass the hell out from shock the first time is see footage of Fallout 4.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Addai67 wrote...

The haters are out in force, I see.

Gatt9 wrote...

I honestly can't say anything good about Bethesda's work,  or Bethesda at all given my experiences.  Quite honestly,  and I've said this before,  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

So you have no reason to post here, eh?

You mean in the Off-Topic forum?

edit: I actually liked Skyrim, even if it's not what I typically look for in a roleplaying game. But I don't want to see Fallout becoming like it.

Modifié par Fisto The Sexbot, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:13 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

So Mr. Sexbot, are you going to make a return in Fallout 4?

[ObserverStatus]

Gatt9 wrote...
Levels abstractly represent you getting better as you do something,  it's done that way in order to avoid Bethesda game's chronic problem of highly exploitable skill progression and the situations they generate that border on nonsensical (Bunny hop everywhere you go,  shoot a fire spell at a tree for an hour).
Skill-use systems are plagued by these issues,  the mechanic is so inherently flawed that it pleads with Players to spend most of their time doing something quite silly as they play,  making it a inadvertent comedy at best,  and just absolutely broken at worst (See Oblivion).
I honestly can't say anything good about Bethesda's work,  or Bethesda at all given my experiences.  Quite honestly,  and I've said this before,  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

I seriously do not have enough palms for my face right now. 

[Dominus]

I'd rather see EA develop a next gen version of checkers and even then I'm pretty sure they'd screw it up.

The idea was scrapped due to the complexity of the battlefield. They did come up with this, though.

As far as the whole Learning-Through-Repeating Actions, I get what they're trying to convey through that mechanic, but it's not one that's known for being well-balanced. While Practice-Makes-Perfect has some truth to it, the current system is by no means perfect.

Will it be in Fallout 4? My instinct says that will be left for the Elder Scrolls series. We'll find out one way or another regardless.

I'm ready for a Fallout 4, but it's not something I'm expecting to be the "Best Game EVAR", at least from my viewpoint.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

ReconTeam wrote...

So Mr. Sexbot, are you going to make a return in Fallout 4?

Of course. After the success that was the Atomic Wrangler, people everywhere started to find a new use for protectrons.

[LobselVith8]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I don't care if people can kill ThreeDog. You know why? Because the Fallout games have never had a Save Import function.

You could have killed Harold in Fallout 2, but he's still in Fallout 3. You could have razed Shady Sands to the ground, but it's still the center for the NCR in Fallout 2.

If you want Bethesda to start neutering your choices because it might have repercussions for future games, then I'm just glad your on these forums instead of Bethesda's, whispering venom into their ears.

I agree. I think the freedom of choice is an appealing aspect of the Fallout games. I doubt you would have had the range in decisions and the paths that were available in Fallout 3 and New Vegas if they were going to import our decisions (and we've seen how terribly that has gone). From deciding whether to side with or against Ashur and his vision of the Pitt, to deciding the future of New Vegas and the Mojave - I think there's an appeal to Fallout that would be gone if the developers had to accomodate importing a multitude of decisions and outcomes.

I'm curious what Fallout 4 will be about, how the Brotherhood of Steel might factor into it, what factions and places will be available, and what the overall goal might be.

[Zeroth Angel]

Ghost1017 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Wimbini wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Meh. Bethesda's take on Fallout was a mess...

Now if Obsidian announces that they're making another game in the Fallout universe, I will be interested.

FNV was an unfinished mess with a predictable story.

Yeah...no.

Ah yes...the short response of "no" because you can't think of anything to counter my argument. You could mention things like the factions, ads, or the sidequests but instead you chose to write a laughable response. As for what I mentioned, FNV felt rushed as with most Obsidian games but still a good(perhaps great) game in it's own right.

I simply said "no" because I disagreed with you.  
But fine I disagree because I don't think that FNV was a predictable story at all. Sure it's not the best one and you pretty much know where the game will end but to say it's predictable is (in my opinion) just taking it a bit too far. 

Sorry for the late response.

[LobselVith8]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ooohhh interesting.

I hope it touches on the Commonwealth, and Institute.
I was interested in the hints and such in Fallout 3 about them.

The Commonwealth sounded interesting, and Doctor Li went there after helping the Brotherhood with Liberty Prime. The Synth Retention Bureau and the Railroad might be factors in Fallout 4.

[naughty99]

J. Reezy wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...
Levels abstractly represent you getting better as you do something,  it's done that way in order to avoid Bethesda game's chronic problem of highly exploitable skill progression and the situations they generate that border on nonsensical (Bunny hop everywhere you go,  shoot a fire spell at a tree for an hour).
Skill-use systems are plagued by these issues,  the mechanic is so inherently flawed that it pleads with Players to spend most of their time doing something quite silly as they play,  making it a inadvertent comedy at best,  and just absolutely broken at worst (See Oblivion).
I honestly can't say anything good about Bethesda's work,  or Bethesda at all given my experiences.  Quite honestly,  and I've said this before,  I would rather see EA develop Fallout 4 instead of Bethesda,  and I *really* don't like EA.

I seriously do not have enough palms for my face right now. 

Lol. He has a point though tbh.

Not really, he just seems to hate the concept of leveling by using your skills. There are exploits but if you play your character in a natural way, choosing to do what you think your character would do, it's a fun system for representing your character's growth. Skyrim has also eliminated the exploits in the previous TES games, so there is no bunny hopping (Oblivion) or shooting fire spells at trees (Morrowind).

You only "spend most of your time doing something silly" if you are deliberately trying to game the system by exploiting alchemy, smithing and enchanting to make an overpowered character. The vanilla game is already easy enough on Master difficulty once you get up to level 30 or so, IMO playing an OP character would be boring as hell, but some people enjoy that sort of thing.  

Modifié par naughty99, 11 janvier 2013 - 06:40 .

[Brockololly]

Make of this what you will, but rumors regarding Fallout 4 from reddit:

First and foremost, the game will take place in Boston, and be kind of a direct sequel to Fallout 3 with a few groups returning.

From what it sounds like, "The Institute" is pretty much the downtown DC or New Vegas of this game. Boston is going to be unlike anything we've seen in a Fallout game before, with buildings more on par with cyberpunk and retro-futurism.

Androids play a big part in this game. The railroad from Fallout 3 is a faction. The enemies of the railroad is "the Plantation" -- a group who force Androids to farm so that Humans can get food. The Institute is highly advanced and probably obtained or built their own GECK to start a farm.

Due to complaints about using Super Mutants and the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 3 excessively and going against the lore too much, Bethesda has decided to avoid using these groups. Bethesda wants to make a new "race" (think Ghoul, Super Mutant) which will be central to Boston. Bethesda is currently looking at Lovecraftian fiction since Boston is around "Lovecraft Country".

Bethesda has no plans to reinvent the leveling up system to make it more like Skyrim and want to make Fallout 4 more distinct from Skyrim since of the complaints that Oblivion and Fallout 3 were too similar. Bethesda is thinking about introducing a system, similar to Skyrim, where your skills can level up if you perform certain tasks.

The Railroad bit plus the Boston locale makes me think Bethesda is kind of doing that as a take on the Underground Railroad perhaps? The last bit seems kind of contradictory- not wanting it like Skyrim so we'll make it like Skyrim.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 janvier 2013 - 07:08 .

[rjshae]

bussinrounds wrote...

It's a terrible rpg mechanic (the more you do it/use it, the better you get at it)

In the real world it might make more sense, but this isn't reality, it's a fantasy rpg and who gives a you know what about realism. The mechanic just doesn't translate well to a game. Forget about how abusable/easily broken and unbalanced their systems are.

Edit:  Gatt pretty much beat me to it. 

I think I'd like something in between. The game can sill allow you to spend skill points, but it can also limit how many you can spend on a particular skill based upon the amount you used it. For example: little or no use: 2 points; moderate use or some training: 5 points; heavy use or extensive training: 8 points. That would allow both the flexibility of player choice and provide a cap on skill inflation.

Modifié par rjshae, 11 janvier 2013 - 07:14 .

[Chromie]

Brockololly wrote...
Bethesda is thinking about introducing a system, similar to Skyrim, where your skills can level up if you perform certain tasks.

This sounds horrible.

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...
The Railroad bit plus the Boston locale makes me think Bethesda is kind of doing that as a take on the Underground Railroad perhaps? The last bit seems kind of contradictory- not wanting it like Skyrim so we'll make it like Skyrim.

Heh, yeah, I imagine that got garbled a bit.

An underground railroad for androids was already the theme of the Institute's quest in FO3, so it would make sense if that returns.