382 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

I felt bad when I created a thread once, and a few devs thought I was demanding information - when really I just wanted to discuss DA . But I think I understand now after seeing this blog from David Gaider.

The tone on BSN can be pretty toxic at times, and I think that ultimately it marrs all of our threads with a percieved tone.

For me, it's the only way I can think of to communicate with the devs, which is such a cool thing to be able to do. I also like communicating with other fans, when it doesn't get ****y.

DA3 forum, I feel can be pretty good, especially when devs get involved and clear things up.

But maybe because words do get twisted and personal attacks and all of that goes on, those of us who, at least, try hard to be heard or get a discussion going are ultimately interpreted as in the same boat.

I don't blame the devs for thinking this, I don't think BSN is really the best forum about, but sometimes it feels like this is the place we are "supposed" to talk about the game.

Anyway, I wish the team good luck for DA3. And I hope they don't think all of us on BSN are meaningfully terse. Sometimes, at least me personally, when I feel like certain things aren't addressed or discussed properly, my tone could come accross poorly - but that does not mean it was intended that way

This also applies to ME3 teams and BioWare in general

Link to the excellent post: dgaider.tumblr.com/post/39544291251/on-fandom-and-toxic-environments

Rawgrim wrote...

I can certainly agree with Gaider on
this. And I am under no illusion that I havee been guilty of being more
than a little blunt when making a point in a discussion or two. So if I
have caused any of the developers any grief or such, I certainly
apologize. The intention for that was never there. Still, the blame for
it is on me anyway.

Agreed. I am never sure how my posts will be "taken" and I too apologize if it comes accross poorly.

Modifié par StElmo, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:25 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

He ain't wrong.

Thankfully for a player of Bioware games, it's all just entertainment to me one way or another.

[XX-Pyro]

Good read. Shame he doesn't frequent the forums as often. I may be in a minority on this particular point but his humour always made me laugh.

[Avaflame]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Good read. Shame he doesn't frequent the forums as often. I may be in a minority on this particular point but his humour always made me laugh.

Indeed I probably go out of my way to read Dev comments 10% hopeful there's new information 90% because I enjoy reading them.

[Rawgrim]

I can certainly agree with Gaider on this. And I am under no illusion that I havee been guilty of being more than a little blunt when making a point in a discussion or two. So if I have caused any of the developers any grief or such, I certainly apologize. The intention for that was never there. Still, the blame for it is on me anyway.

Sill, when looking at why people **** and whine etc, it doesn`t just come down to someone hating a game. From what I have seen, alot of the "hate" comes from Bioware marketing a product in a certain way, and not delivering at all. The Witch Hunt dlc springs to mind. The dlc "poster" on xbox live said I would "learn Morrigan`s big secret" when I played that one. Just didn`t happen.

So fans, haters, AND Bioware are all abit to blame in this.

[Swagger7]

He's a nice guy, and quite considerate. Too bad so many of the people he has to talk to on here are ***holes.

[StElmo]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I don't disagree with him, and it's sad to see--really, has been sad to see BSN descend into insanity basically in this year alone. i mean, the ME3 romance forums completely closed because people--well, it's just unbelievable.

Also, this really isn't DA related. this would be off-topic material.

So what were people doing on the romance forums?

Was it homophobia or something>

BioWare is always really good at their ability ro be colorblind and sexuality blind - i imagine that is provocative to conservative people.

[Rawgrim]

Swagger7 wrote...

He's a nice guy, and quite considerate. Too bad so many of the people he has to talk to on here are ***holes.

He is. And the rest of the developers and whatsnot that come in here are nice people too.

[KillTheWiseOne]

This was a good read, and I agree with him. Sometimes I need to take a break from the forums because they make me a negative person if I dwell in them for too long. However, there is also a lot of good, well crafted arguments/criticisms to be found here, it's a shame they are so often drowned out by pointless negativity and personal attacks.

[Arcadian Legend]

Not the first time this subject came up here, and look how that went.

http://social.biowar.../index/15501229

Hopefully this time it won't be bad enough for the mods to resort to locking.

[Eternal Phoenix]

StElmo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I don't disagree with him, and it's sad to see--really, has been sad to see BSN descend into insanity basically in this year alone. i mean, the ME3 romance forums completely closed because people--well, it's just unbelievable.

Also, this really isn't DA related. this would be off-topic material.

So what were people doing on the romance forums?

Was it homophobia or something>

BioWare is always really good at their ability ro be colorblind and sexuality blind - i imagine that is provocative to conservative people.

It was mainly hetrophobia. Seriously I saw it.

[Weskerr]

 I agree with Gaider's observations of this forum and online communities in general. It's hard to have civil debates with some people here. Ad hominem is used like a commodity when a sensible argument, or counterargument, can't be made. Although I was relieved and thankful to see Allan Shumacher frequent these forums for a while (he provided congenial, sincere, non -PR discussion with the community daily. He also was a true gamer), I was surprised he participated as long as he did before he got fed up. 

For me, I've found a pattern which I unconsciously follow: Participate for a few months. Disengage for a few months. It has helped to keep me from becoming jaded.

[Fast Jimmy]

StElmo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I don't disagree with him, and it's sad to see--really, has been sad to see BSN descend into insanity basically in this year alone. i mean, the ME3 romance forums completely closed because people--well, it's just unbelievable.

Also, this really isn't DA related. this would be off-topic material.

So what were people doing on the romance forums?

Was it homophobia or something>

BioWare is always really good at their ability ro be colorblind and sexuality blind - i imagine that is provocative to conservative people.

No, it wasn't homophobic. It was fans of one romance attacking fans of another romance. It got RIDICULOUSLY out of control. I am talking full on hate and personal attacks for days and weeks on end. They wound up closing the entire romance section of the forums. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:35 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

What sort of proper forum isn't filled with jaded cynics fighting rabid fanboys? Such is the eternal struggle that has occurred since the dawn of time.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

*mage removed per Site Rule #6 and counts as trolling as well*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:58 .

[Weskerr]

krul2k wrote...

yeah weskeer i know how you feel, i only joined here a coupla months ago an truth be told it is a tiresome place sometimes, if i wasnt the person i am in all honesty id a probably binned all my bioware games, deleted my account an moved on with a laugh an a not worth it, but the games are worth it an so is some of the ppl just a pity alot aint

That's what keeps me here too. Some of the games BioWare has come out with are so good that all the negative stuff on the forums isn't enough to keep me away for long. I just want to discuss their games with other people who have also played them.

[xsdob]

I think the bsn's problem is that too many people have pretty much dismissed any responsibility they have for what they post under the justification that they are angry and bioware sucks.

I once saw a thread who made a blatant error in what it was attacking bioware over and asked the person to either remove or correct that statement. His response was to say it wasn't his responsibility to watch what he said in his own thread, because he was a normal person and a paying customer.

His reasoning for not fixing a lie in his thread about bioware lore errors, was pretty much the same excuse someone uses to **** up a public space or bathroom.

And you see this all the time, with people posting nasty, sometimes flase, things up that make people offended, and deflecting any responsibility for it, espically if it's ME3 discussion related, on both sides.

Modifié par xsdob, 10 janvier 2013 - 01:42 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

EntropicAngel wrote...

BSN has never been "homophobic." Or racist. it was the petty, petty bickering between people in threads about their favorite LI.

And to answer your final statement, it's not provocative at all. Conservative people are not racist and homophobic as you imply.

That doesn't mean BSN can't continue the tradition of calling everybody racist homophobes. And being a conservative automatically means you're privileged, so your opinions are wrong and shouldn't be tolerated by more enlightened society or something.

[Rixatrix]

I agree with him. The internet, unfortunately, amplifies the level of impropriety present in face-to-face communications to toxic levels. There is voicing your concerns politely, and there is venting your frustrations, and I fear we get far more of the latter than the former on these forums.

People seem to think that they're entitled to venting here however they please and that everyone needs to take it. If that happened in a physical room, most nice people would probably walk out in disgust and the venting person would be left deflated and his tirade falling on deaf ears. However, because this is the internet, it is left up indefinitely, as if played in that room on repeat for every newcomer and for those nice individuals who left the first time, perhaps returning in the vain hopes that the venting crier left.

That room sounds pretty unpleasant, doesn't it? Now take that one raving lunatic and multiply by a thousand, raise "venting" to "vitriol," and you might be closer to describing these forums.

I *love* that there are creative, polite, intelligent, and genuinely engaging people to be found here. They are a ray of hope in a sea of crazy. However, we all know that it is only a matter of time for most of them, before they get too tired of politely handling callous trolls, reading inflammatory posts, and mediating flamefests. Yes, these people are like to move on and find people to interact with who don't feel like criticism of their views on a video game is apocalyptic sacrilege and punishable by flaming.