382 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Icesong wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Icesong wrote...

There's a difference between developers popping in every once in awhile and continued and sustained interaction. But it definitely wouldn't "help". There's nothing short of an apology or a promise of change that would placate.

Those wouldn't do it either--but seeing as how they have no need to do either, I see no change for the haters in the future.

Of course it would do it... they're not complaining for no reason. But if they get they want new "haters" will show up. Just seeing people in forums as a blob of "haters" rather than individual posters is a reason some people fail to cope with them.

If the DA2 haters gets what they want in DA3, the DA2 fanboys will turn into DA3 haters. Simple.

[andar91]

I love interacting with the people on the forums even if it isn't the most pleasant place to be. But I love being a Bioware fan and talking to other fans, and I love getting to interact with the developers. I get excited when I see a post from David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw or any of the others. I remember when Peter Thomas came onto the forums in his free time and did this HUGE Q&A thread about combat for us that (I assume) he didn't need to do. Then there's the moderators. I don't see John Epler around as much anymore, and that sucks. He seemed like a great guy and was always so darn polite when shutting down threads lol.

Let's hope they haven't completely abandoned the forums. I look forward to interacting with them over DA3. So...yeah, just a big thank you to Bioware and the awesome team that makes this fandom possible for all of us. And thanks to the fans, too, because a lot of you (us, I hope) are great to have a discussion with and are great about being civil.

[Seboist]

Rawgrim wrote...

Seboist wrote...

xsdob wrote...

It was a war over miranda's ass, and whether you were a true miranda fan if you liked her ass, or ignored it entirely to focus soley on her personality as a character.

Than it spilled into other forums and the whole thing was locked and purged.

I'd wager it was more about EA/BW finally realizing the amount of damage the romance creeps were doing to their brand's reputation. The same with the recent crackdown on the IT.

You know, I was thinking about that some weeks ago. Looking at the forum and all the romance threads. It struck me: Is this an rpg or a dating sim?

You'd think it was a dating sim judging by the threads with several hundred pages but the kicker is that the "romance" content is at best 1% of playtime in these games.

[Selene Moonsong]

 Keeping the forums civil is not just the responsibility of BioWare staff and volunteer moderators, it is up to the community as a whole.

I became a moderator on BioWare forums in April of 2006, initially as a moderator of the pre-release NWN 2 forums and was added to other forums over time, and this trend continues her to these forums.

Community member volunteer moderators are selected from the community at large. It was easier in the days of the older BioBoards to find people who may be excellent candidates to become moderators. The reason it was easier is because the community made it easy.

They followed the site rules (though not everyone is perfect and may slip up sometimes) and were generally respectful of each other and of BioWare Staff, and were mostly civil when discussing things they vehemently may have disliked about a particular game.

Those were times when I really loved the forums and moderate and participate in interesting topics as a fellow gamer. These days it sometimes almost feels like going to work at a job I wish I could afford to quit at times. 

What makes a community work is fellow gamers who wish to discuss the games in engaging comversational discussion that is civil and respectful of each other. "Raging" and "hating", disrespect, and disregard of fellow community members, moderators, and staff serve only to make the forums an uninviting place to be.

It is as much up to the community members to help make this an inviting site for game lovers as it is for the volunteer  moderators and BioWare Staff to help make this an inviting environment.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 10 janvier 2013 - 02:45 .

[Rawgrim]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Of course it would do it... they're not complaining for no reason. But if they get they want new "haters" will show up. Just seeing people in forums as a blob of "haters" rather than individual posters is a reason some people fail to cope with them.

On the very first page of this same thread in the ME3 forums:

moater boat wrote...

I'm actually glad this is becoming a toxic environment. Bioware deserves it. I want the developers to get a queasy feeling in their stomach every time they think about visiting these forums. I am no longer hoping for change. Now the best I can hope for is to spread some misery to those that deserve it.

They couldn't change that with an apology.

Good grief. Thats just pathetic.

[TheRealJayDee]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Of course it would do it... they're not complaining for no reason. But if they get they want new "haters" will show up. Just seeing people in forums as a blob of "haters" rather than individual posters is a reason some people fail to cope with them.

On the very first page of this same thread in the ME3 forums:

moater boat wrote...

I'm actually glad this is becoming a toxic environment. Bioware deserves it. I want the developers to get a queasy feeling in their stomach every time they think about visiting these forums. I am no longer hoping for change. Now the best I can hope for is to spread some misery to those that deserve it.

They couldn't change that with an apology.

Yeah, well, or you could also pick one of the reasonable posts and discuss it as well.

3DandBeyond wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

...but I absolutely hate that they cast us all in that light.  Blogging about the BSN in such a negative light, saying it's toxic and all, makes us seem like a bunch of well, haters.

"You can, in fact, meet and talk to some very keen and intelligent posters. And that’s very true. If it weren’t true, I wouldn’t go there at all."

I think that quote made it very clear he's not casting everyone in that light.

But the effect is that it casts everyone in that light.  And that sentence puts the keen and intelligent posters into a minority segment of the population here.  Some posters.  I stand by the thought that it gives the impression that we are all like that (and I say that knowing I can be and have been as obnoxioius as anyone, though not threatening at all).  There's no excuse for labeling a large section of the fanbase that frequents the BSN as contributing to a toxic atmosfphere if you are doing nothing yourself to help clean it up.  And especially when representing the company with their hands out.  That's just not a good business strategy at all.  And anywhere I've worked it is a big NO.  Remember people here bought the product-registered owners.

[Rawgrim]

Seboist wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Seboist wrote...

xsdob wrote...

It was a war over miranda's ass, and whether you were a true miranda fan if you liked her ass, or ignored it entirely to focus soley on her personality as a character.

Than it spilled into other forums and the whole thing was locked and purged.

I'd wager it was more about EA/BW finally realizing the amount of damage the romance creeps were doing to their brand's reputation. The same with the recent crackdown on the IT.

You know, I was thinking about that some weeks ago. Looking at the forum and all the romance threads. It struck me: Is this an rpg or a dating sim?

You'd think it was a dating sim judging by the threads with several hundred pages but the kicker is that the "romance" content is at best 1% of playtime in these games.

Exactly. It was from looking at the titles of the threads and such. Followed by threads about making the game easier. Being able to skip combat and whatsnot. I am sure it was a timing incident though. all threads were lined so the forum looked a certain way. Still

[xsdob]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

 Keeping the forums civil is not just the responsibility of BioWare staff and volunteer moderators, it is up to the community as a whole.

I became a moderator on BioWare forums in April of 2006, initially as a moderator of the pre-release NWN 2 forums and was added to other forums over time, and this trend continues her to these forums.

Community member volunteer moderators are selected from the community at large. It was easier in the days of the older BioBoards to find people who may be excellent candidates to become moderators. The reason it was easier is because the community made it easy.

They followed the site rules (though not everyone is perfect and may slip up sometimes) and were generally respectful of each other and of BioWare Staff, and were mostly civil when discussing things they vehemently may have disliked about a particular game.

Those were times when I really loved the forums and moderate and participate in interesting topics as a fellow gamer. These days it sometimes almost feels like going to work at a job I wish I could afford to quit at times. 

What makes a community work is fellow gamers who wish to discuss the games in engaging comversational discussion that is civil and respectful of each other. "Raging" and "hating", disrespect, and disregard of fellow community members, moderators, and staff serve only to make the forums an uninviting place to be.

It is as much up to the community members to help make this an inviting site for game lovers as it is for the volunteer  moderators and BioWare Staff to help make this an inviting environment.

That was a really good post.

I'd ask if it were possible to apply to be a moderator, but I have a feeling I'm on the "will never be a moderator" list that was mentioned earlier. 

[Paul Sedgmore]

David Gaider's reasons in that blog are the same reasons I rarely come to these forums and post even less

[Selene Moonsong]

People, we are veering way off topic, lets get it back in line.

[Icesong]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Of course it would do it... they're not complaining for no reason. But if they get they want new "haters" will show up. Just seeing people in forums as a blob of "haters" rather than individual posters is a reason some people fail to cope with them.

On the very first page of this same thread in the ME3 forums:

moater boat wrote...

I'm actually glad this is becoming a toxic environment. Bioware deserves it. I want the developers to get a queasy feeling in their stomach every time they think about visiting these forums. I am no longer hoping for change. Now the best I can hope for is to spread some misery to those that deserve it.

They couldn't change that with an apology.

I meant changing the overall tone of the forum, not every single poster. And that guy said he's stopped hoping for change; if he actually got it, who knows?

Anyway, just ban that guy. No, don't close down the entire forum Priestly.

[TheRealJayDee]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

It is as much up to the community members to help make this an inviting site for game lovers as it is for the volunteer  moderators and BioWare Staff to help make this an inviting environment.

Serious question: how does somebody become a volunteer moderator these days?

[Selene Moonsong]

xsdob wrote...

{snip}

That was a really good post.

I'd ask if it were possible to apply to be a moderator, but I have a feeling I'm on the "will never be a moderator" list that was mentioned earlier. 

Volunteers are selected from the community at large, usually as a recommendation from an upstanding community member, moderator, or BioWare Staff.  

[TheRealJayDee]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Volunteers are selected from the community at large, usually as a recommendation from an upstanding community member, moderator, or BioWare Staff.  

How many times has that happened in the last year or so? And what exactly is an "upstanding community member"?

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:00 .

[Weskerr]

StElmo wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

krul2k wrote...

yeah weskeer i know how you feel, i only joined here a coupla months ago an truth be told it is a tiresome place sometimes, if i wasnt the person i am in all honesty id a probably binned all my bioware games, deleted my account an moved on with a laugh an a not worth it, but the games are worth it an so is some of the ppl just a pity alot aint

That's what keeps me here too. Some of the games BioWare has come out with are so good that all the negative stuff on the forums isn't enough to keep me away for long. I just want to discuss their games with other people who have also played them.

TO be fair, your sig (as of this post) isnt exactly helping. Snarkyness I think also adds to the pile - even if you don't mean it in that way. Its easy to let these things pile up

I think it's justified though and there is nothing personal about it. I've grown a healthy disrespect for some of the ME3 devs and they are whom my signature is directed towards. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the DA devs, though.

Modifié par Weskerr, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:06 .

[Icesong]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

It is as much up to the community members to help make this an inviting site for game lovers as it is for the volunteer  moderators and BioWare Staff to help make this an inviting environment.

Moderation is far more important for any forum that's too big to self-regulate, and the style of moderation is what will set the tone.

[PsychoBlonde]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'm actually a bit infuriated with the mods at the moment because SOMEONE erased the Unconfirmed Rumors thread. Not locked. ERASED. No warning. No "this is becoming spammy". Nope, just boop, gone. No idea who did it or why.

Bad show.

Seriously? I was wondering where that had gone.

If you're sure, and want it back, ask Stan about it via PM. We've sometimes gotten threads back before by using the right approach.

I did.  No dice.

[eromelcm7]

So what can we do to change it? How did it get this way? Serious question: How can we improve the BSN to a friendly place of discussion and avoid future toxification?

[xsdob]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

xsdob wrote...

{snip}

That was a really good post.

I'd ask if it were possible to apply to be a moderator, but I have a feeling I'm on the "will never be a moderator" list that was mentioned earlier. 

Volunteers are selected from the community at large, usually as a recommendation from an upstanding community member, moderator, or BioWare Staff.  

Yeeeeeeeah. I'm not really one of those.

Ah well, thanks for replying here anyway.

[Drone223]

I 100% agree with Gaider, and I don't blame the devs for not posting on the forums. The ME story forums have degraded into threads being the exact same topic (the endings) which has disscused (spelling) to death, and threads that have nothing to do with the endings most of the time get derailed into threads about the endings. 

[Arcadian Legend]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Moderation is far more important for any forum that's too big to self-regulate, and the style of moderation is what will set the tone.

One thing I defintely think Bioware's trying to prevent is too restrictive a policy. There's a LOT of stuff here, especially on the ME3 forums I think they should crack down on. But Bioware doesn't want to be "totalittarian" or "fascist" or whatever adjective that would be flung when she adopted a sterner policy (just like when that text above the forums here appeared. I was here on BSN the moment it arrived, and people panicked)

Yeah, I remember when that text first appeared too. People really were quite worried.