382 réponses à ce sujet

[Paul Sedgmore]

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

[eromelcm7]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Those were times when I really loved the forums and moderate and participate in interesting topics as a fellow gamer. These days it sometimes almost feels like going to work at a job I wish I could afford to quit at times. 

[TheJediSaint]

One probelm that I see has been the development of some pretty viscous factionalism within the BSN fanbase. For the Mass Effect crowed, its the pro-enders vs the anti-enders, or the pro-syhtesis vs pro-destroy. For Dragon Age, it's DA2 lovers vs DA2 haters, or Mage supporters vs Templar supporters.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 10 janvier 2013 - 04:00 .

[Fast Jimmy]

billy the squid wrote...

Now I think it's quite evident from when I entered the previous thread that I can easily exacerbate things to the point where the thread implodes and is locked or deleted. Yet, I've felt no inclination to do so here, despite the topic and the potential inflammatory nature, given what happened previously, so topic or poster? Food for thought.

Often, I think it is a two way street. 

An individual poster can be in a thread 90% of the time and have nothing to wrong. Yet when you put that poster in with another individual, things become explosive quickly. 

Honestly, over the past week, I've seen less posts from major players in the BSN wars. I'm not just talking about people who "dog" Bioware, but also those who take an insult against Bioware as an insult against them. 

I've been in discussions (and arguments) with people on both sides of the fence and I can categorically say it isn't the poster OR the topic... it's when you mix certain posters together. People know how to push other people's buttons, which then turn into personal attacks, which then turns into full-on gang war here on the BSN. 

Honestly, if there was a way for people who don't like each other to just not see each other's presence on the forums, it would result in less butting of heads. For instance, if someone I cannot stand responds to  thread saying something that gets under my skin, instead of trying to get into an argument with them, I can just hit a button that makes them completely invisible to me, including forum posts and threads. 

It may seem a bit extreme, but I think it would be remarkably effective. 

[addiction21]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

Not to mention the little clicks we have formed around here would then leap on the chance to downvote anyone they have had problems with or whatever in the past. Not to mention getting slammed for just having a opinion.

I'd rather not have a reputation system and am thankful there is no post counter.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Dhiro wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

I understand. It's not like I can't deal with one game I don't like, but the thing David Gaider and the others don't realize is that they'd clear up much of the fuss and controversy by facing it instead of hiding from it. Just a few thoughts, just saying.

The thing is, there's not much they can say.

Take DA ]|[ and races, for example.

Now, I am not a fan of this. At all. I argue that it inhibits roleplaying, because it prevents certain types of characters from being made. Elves, Dwarves, that kind of thing. The thing is, though--the DA team didn't exclude races because they have a sadistic streak. They didn't exclude them because they WANT to alienate their fanbase. They have a reason for their choices.

BUT, the other thing is--no matter what their reason is, no matter how valid it is--it likely won't satisfy me in the sense that I say "okay, I like no races." My point is also valid--it's just not what they were going for with DA ]|[. Them coming and explaining won't change that.

Pretty much. And while some people will respect their decision - even if they really don't agree with it - other will just keep arguing to the point of being obnoxious. And while arguing for what you'd like to see in a game isn't inherently bad or anything, the BSN has been slipping into a very vicious territory where the devs apparently are a bunch of idiots who can't do their jobs and are the cancer destroying RPGs.

Yeah, yeah, it's like this place is becoming like RPGCodex, you know? I mean I argue from time to time but I don't come here to call the developers idiots. I acknowledge that there are limitations as to what they can do, and I'm not suggesting that they should not try out different things. They already did that with Mass Effect however.

But I thought Dragon Age was supposed to be their old-school franchise. It doesn't mean I hate Mass Effect.

[Rawgrim]

TheJediSaint wrote...

One probelm that I see has been the development of some pretty viscous factionalism within the BSN fanbase. For the Mass Effect crowed, its the pro-enders vs the anti-enders, or the pro-syhtesis vs pro-destroy. For Dragon Age, it's DA2 lovers vs DA2 haters, or Mage supporters vs Templar supporters.

This is so true. I`ve got my head chewed off by a few people from not supporting mages It also seems that if you say something bad about DA2, and in the same sentence you say something good about it, you get 2 packs of wolves attacking you from either side. Its either hate or love, it seems.

This is all bioware`s fault, of course. For introducing the paragon\\renegade system and the friend\\rival bit

[Paul Sedgmore]

Rawgrim wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Well, I would prefer it to not play as a human... that is, if possible. To be honest I got into the series because of different features that were promised, and now I find it kinda irritating, you know, to have something other than what was promised delivered.

So I would appreciate it if David Gaider could come into this thread and apologize. I think it would a long way for some members of the community because some us were kinda disappointed in the game (Dragon Age 2), right? If David Gaider could come into this thread and apologize, I would really appreciate it.

Nothing is a promise.

Go with that, ^, and you won't be disappointed. Treat the promises of a company like you would those of a politician, as in "we'll see when we get there," and don't commit yourself to things you don't know. I can tell you you'll always, always be disappointed if you hold companies (just like politicians) to their promises. People lie, and not just that, but people promise things they simply may not be able to deliver on.

Case in point, ME. It was simply impossible to deliver on the whole "choices & consequences" thing. I don't fault Bioware for trying, and i think they did an admirable job. But they simply reached too far, no doubt about it.

I didn't commit myself to them "coming true" on that promise, so I didn't feel hurt when they didn't. There HAVE been things I have commited myself to, and I DID get hurt. So I determined not to get so emotiionally caught up in it again.

That is a good way of looking at it, personally I have always looked at developer "promises" as "This is what we are trying to do" rather than "this is what the final product will be like" especially after working in the industry and seeing what making a game really entails.

Quite right. But I do remember some downright lies from the marketing as well. The Witch Hunt DLC, for example. Said we would learn Morrigan`s big secret if we played it. It said so all the way through when it got sold. Even after the release. That just wasn`t true. if someone goes haywire from things like that, I can certainly see where they are coming from.

I remember when Neverwinter Nights came out, it was stated loads of times that it would let me import my bg2 character, and the story would continue from there. This wasn`t true either.

When things like this keeps happening, people are bound to get disapointedpissed. So Bioware should shoulder some of the blame for this unpleasant atmosphere as well.

Marketing is a very different beast to a member of the development team saying something on the forum or in an interview. A lot of the time marketing is working off of out of date when the game is released due to a multitude of reasons like deadlines to get the marketing material to the various outlets and other times something is spun out of all proportion, that is just how marketing works and personally I  take any marketing material with a pinch of salt

[Rawgrim]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Well, I would prefer it to not play as a human... that is, if possible. To be honest I got into the series because of different features that were promised, and now I find it kinda irritating, you know, to have something other than what was promised delivered.

So I would appreciate it if David Gaider could come into this thread and apologize. I think it would a long way for some members of the community because some us were kinda disappointed in the game (Dragon Age 2), right? If David Gaider could come into this thread and apologize, I would really appreciate it.

Nothing is a promise.

Go with that, ^, and you won't be disappointed. Treat the promises of a company like you would those of a politician, as in "we'll see when we get there," and don't commit yourself to things you don't know. I can tell you you'll always, always be disappointed if you hold companies (just like politicians) to their promises. People lie, and not just that, but people promise things they simply may not be able to deliver on.

Case in point, ME. It was simply impossible to deliver on the whole "choices & consequences" thing. I don't fault Bioware for trying, and i think they did an admirable job. But they simply reached too far, no doubt about it.

I didn't commit myself to them "coming true" on that promise, so I didn't feel hurt when they didn't. There HAVE been things I have commited myself to, and I DID get hurt. So I determined not to get so emotiionally caught up in it again.

That is a good way of looking at it, personally I have always looked at developer "promises" as "This is what we are trying to do" rather than "this is what the final product will be like" especially after working in the industry and seeing what making a game really entails.

Quite right. But I do remember some downright lies from the marketing as well. The Witch Hunt DLC, for example. Said we would learn Morrigan`s big secret if we played it. It said so all the way through when it got sold. Even after the release. That just wasn`t true. if someone goes haywire from things like that, I can certainly see where they are coming from.

I remember when Neverwinter Nights came out, it was stated loads of times that it would let me import my bg2 character, and the story would continue from there. This wasn`t true either.

When things like this keeps happening, people are bound to get disapointedpissed. So Bioware should shoulder some of the blame for this unpleasant atmosphere as well.

Marketing is a very different beast to a member of the development team saying something on the forum or in an interview. A lot of the time marketing is working off of out of date when the game is released due to a multitude of reasons like deadlines to get the marketing material to the various outlets and other times something is spun out of all proportion, that is just how marketing works and personally I  take any marketing material with a pinch of salt

Yeah, one should do that. But not everyone knows that. And thats what can set people off.

[eromelcm7]

addiction21 wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

Not to mention the little clicks we have formed around here would then leap on the chance to downvote anyone they have had problems with or whatever in the past. Not to mention getting slammed for just having a opinion.

I'd rather not have a reputation system and am thankful there is no post counter.

Good point, but I feel clicks will attack people with or without a reputation system. I don't know, I still feel it could work.. I am just trying to think of a reasonable system that could be put in to help disgurage hateful behavior in encourage civil discussion. 

[Fisto The Sexbot]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

A reputation system would be great. Some might argue that not having an extremely lax moderation policy automatically means the forums are ruled by draconian overlords. But that's simply not true. Opinions shouldn't be weighed *strictly* individually but be ranked according to a user's history.

It teaches people responsibility. Because sometimes people simply behave like children.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

A reputation system would be great. Some might argue that not having an extremely lax moderation policy automatically means the forums are ruled by draconian overlords. But that's simply not true. Opinions shouldn't be weighed *strictly* individually but be ranked according to a user's history.

It teaches people responsibility. Because sometimes people simply behave like children.

In theory yes, in practice not so much because of the issues I raised above. Take a look at Xbox LIVE I've come across a lot of people over LIVE with full rep only to find that the constantly trash talk, are abusive or cheat. This has happened so much that unless I'm playing with friends or with people I have met from sites like BSN or True Achievements I don't play over LIVE because I find that these people take the enjoyment out of doing so

Modifié par Paul Sedgmore, 10 janvier 2013 - 04:18 .

[TheJediSaint]

eromelcm7 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

Not to mention the little clicks we have formed around here would then leap on the chance to downvote anyone they have had problems with or whatever in the past. Not to mention getting slammed for just having a opinion.

I'd rather not have a reputation system and am thankful there is no post counter.

Good point, but I feel clicks will attack people with or without a reputation system. I don't know, I still feel it could work.. I am just trying to think of a reasonable system that could be put in to help disgurage hateful behavior in encourage civil discussion. 

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

[QuentaSilmarillion]

I honestly stopped posting on these forums because every time I did, I would get a warning from a moderator saying something like, I should talk about it in another thread or to keep it on topic or something. I don't really hang around enough to keep track of what is going on, I just see a thread and throw my two cents in sometimes.

I think the thing that really turned me away from this forum is the overzealousness of the forum moderators, which I think is actually a good thing in the long run.

Modifié par QuentaSilmarillion, 10 janvier 2013 - 04:20 .

[eromelcm7]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

A reputation system would be great. Some might argue that not having an extremely lax moderation policy automatically means the forums are ruled by draconian overlords. But that's simply not true. Opinions shouldn't be weighed *strictly* individually but be ranked according to a user's history.

It teaches people responsibility. Because sometimes people simply behave like children.

In theory yes, in practice not so much because of the issues I raised above. Take a look at Xbox LIVE I've come across a lot of people over LIVE with full rep only to find that the constantly trash talk, are abusive or cheat. This has happened so much that unless I'm playing with friends or with people I have met from sites like BSN or True Achievements I don't play over LIVE because I find that these people take the enjoyment out of doing so

I think Xbox LIVE failed because people don't use it; the xbox reputation system is inconvenient . However, if rating someone was a fast and as easy as say upvoting a youtube comment more people might use and thus help balance the system.

Yeah! There is another idea worth exploring. Up and down voting posts. Maybe even calapse highly downvoted posts by defualt?

[eromelcm7]

TheJediSaint wrote...

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

Got to it before me!  Well what do people say to this idea?

[LPPrince]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

xsdob wrote...

{snip}

That was a really good post.

I'd ask if it were possible to apply to be a moderator, but I have a feeling I'm on the "will never be a moderator" list that was mentioned earlier. 

Volunteers are selected from the community at large, usually as a recommendation from an upstanding community member, moderator, or BioWare Staff.  

Even then, no guarantees. The only reason I even know of that list is because a former mod who was giving up his/her position felt I would be the best candidate to replace them, and when they suggested me, they were told that I was on that list and so I was ineligible.

Which I can understand. I've been suspended a few times over the years, never for anything substantial, but it has happened. Even now I may still make the mistake of accidentally breaking a minor rule somewhere. So instead of just sitting on my butt doing nothing, I try to help out as much as I can as just your regular veteran community member. I'll report things I see that are questionable or outright break rules, usually to Chris and Stan, sometimes to other moderators I may be frequently talking to(like Allan).

As you said, its not just devs and mods that can help the forum. We can too.

[LPPrince]

eromelcm7 wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

Got to it before me!  Well what do people say to this idea?

Not gonna work here. Too many people would vote out of malice. The entire MLP Thread over in Offtopic would be filled with hidden posts because outsiders who aren't fans would want to troll and hide everything.

Just an example of how that system could be broken.

[Paul Sedgmore]

eromelcm7 wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

Anyone think a reputation system on BSN would be beneficial?

Hell, even Xbox Live has that. I may pass over posts that I see are posted by a poorly rated user by the community. It may help those who wish a nice discussion avoid those who have a hateful reputation. Also the very implementation may discourage future hateful users, knowing some of their anonymity from thread to thread is gone.

A reputation system has its benefits but it would need some serious thoughts on how to stop it from being abused, for example the Xbox LIVE system you can report people for anything and it is on thier profile permenantly (I have had a few people report me for trash talking despite never doing that over LIVE) or just getting all of your friends to up vote you so you have a high rep

A reputation system would be great. Some might argue that not having an extremely lax moderation policy automatically means the forums are ruled by draconian overlords. But that's simply not true. Opinions shouldn't be weighed *strictly* individually but be ranked according to a user's history.

It teaches people responsibility. Because sometimes people simply behave like children.

In theory yes, in practice not so much because of the issues I raised above. Take a look at Xbox LIVE I've come across a lot of people over LIVE with full rep only to find that the constantly trash talk, are abusive or cheat. This has happened so much that unless I'm playing with friends or with people I have met from sites like BSN or True Achievements I don't play over LIVE because I find that these people take the enjoyment out of doing so

I think Xbox LIVE failed because people don't use it; the xbox reputation system is inconvenient . However, if rating someone was a fast and as easy as say upvoting a youtube comment more people might use and thus help balance the system.

Yeah! There is another idea worth exploring. Up and down voting posts. Maybe even calapse highly downvoted posts by defualt?

There may be something to the Up/down voting system worth looking into as a way of self moderating. Can't say I ever use it on youtube myself though

[eromelcm7]

LPPrince wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

Got to it before me!  Well what do people say to this idea?

Not gonna work here. Too many people would vote out of malice. The entire MLP Thread over in Offtopic would be filled with hidden posts because outsiders who aren't fans would want to troll and hide everything.

Just an example of how that system could be broken.

Maybe, but on the other hand, this would provide mods with more data to work with. If they see someone that has been doing a lot of downvoting in a short period time, they now have hard data to invistigate people on, and weed out trolls.

Modifié par eromelcm7, 10 janvier 2013 - 04:43 .

[blueumi]

it is a shame and I do feel bad for most of the develpers they are only doing a job
I am looking forward to dragon age 3 since I love origins and liked for the most part dragon age 2

[Yalision]

The forums burned when Dragon Age II released and its environments were incredibly underwhelming. I think that even the lackluster loot system and junk, countless "Ring"s and more would have been forgiven if not for the recycling and the forced Human protagonist. Then when the forums couldn't have possibly become worse, Mass Effect 3's ending hit the rubble left behind by Dragon Age II like the meteor that did in the dinosaurs.

The result was an utter catastrophe for Bioware in every sense. Players raised over $80,000 in a few short days in protest of a video game's ending - unprecedented. We sent them a freaking SUV full of red, green, and blue cupcakes. Bioware's reactions enraged their fans on a scale never seen before in the history of gaming. Even now, Mass Effect 3 is a dubious term among all RPG fans I've met, whether they agree or disagree with the ending.

Now as information on Dragon Age III begins to trickle out, fans hear that we will be forced to play Human again - something voiced countless times that was not a popular idea even though most players will choose Human anyway. This does nothing to help the situation. Unless great things come out of a Dragon Age III reveal, they will continue to degenerate I'm sure.

Modifié par Yalision, 10 janvier 2013 - 04:47 .

[Fisto The Sexbot]

eromelcm7 wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

Got to it before me!  Well what do people say to this idea?

EUREKA! That sounds like a delicious idea.

I think we all can admit that Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 are not bad games. They just don't live up to the age-old 'what could have been'.

[Foolsfolly]

I have nothing against the idea of offering some kind of down or up-vote for posts. But I really thing a simple bit of thought by all users would help a lot. And it's something you can implement right away.

Don't flame. Don't spam. Don't derail. And if you have someone you really disagree with just think:

1- Does this statement require confrontation?
2- Do I have to be the one to confront them?

Just if we all try to be civil than if regardless of if BioWare implements additional tools or not the place can cool down.

[LPPrince]

eromelcm7 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

eromelcm7 wrote...

TheJediSaint wrote...

A downvote system may be better.   If someone posts something offensive or irrelevent, then the community votes it down out of existence.

Got to it before me!  Well what do people say to this idea?

Not gonna work here. Too many people would vote out of malice. The entire MLP Thread over in Offtopic would be filled with hidden posts because outsiders who aren't fans would want to troll and hide everything.

Just an example of how that system could be broken.

Maybe, but on the other hand, this would provide mods with more data to work with. If they see someone that has been doing a lot of downvoting in a short period time, they now have hard data to invistigate people on, and weed out trolls.

Not really. All that downvote system would do is annoy people in the end of the day. Too many holes.

Insofar as finding trolls, if someone is trolling, all it takes is several links or even just one sent to a moderator or developer in a personal message.

And that can be done right NOW. People just fail to react to that sort of stuff, or they don't know how to correctly report something.