382 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Tigerman123 wrote...

I really don't get why people are so given to insulting and castigating Bioware developers on here

If you want to do that why not sign up to the RPG codex or somesuch to find other like minded individuals

I wouldn't come into someone's establishment and verbally abuse them regardless of my subjective opinion of their product, it's in bad taste

True, but a customer should be allowed to voice his opinion if he feels he has been sold a poor product.

Being rude about it, however, is pointless. Constructive criticizm is all good. "this doesn`t work because" and "It would be better if it was more like this".

[Rawgrim]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Maybe they should just make a separate "V.I.P" board for people who do behave? They could interact with fans there, and just keep anouncements and stuff on the regular boards?

Bioware would have to hire Santa to figure out which posters are naughty and which ones are nice.

Fair point

[Foolsfolly]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...


I just googled it.

http://kotaku.com/59...ly-toxic-forums

http://www.vg247.com...nging-feedback/

lolz

I hate to bring it back to this for a moment but I want to comment on how weird internet gaming sites are. VG cites Kotaku for the find which cites Penny Arcade for the find. It's like a chamber full of echoes. Neither site adding anything meaningful to the discussion that Mister Gaider started just talking about how there was a discussion.

Amusing... to me at least.

[Rawgrim]

Nizaris1 wrote...

Although i want to leave this forum but i want to say something here...

i remember have a conversation with David Gaider himself in a post about Grey Warden and DA universe, i feel honored really, but my response have been treated somewhat negatively by some forum members, it is as if i challenged him, the devs, about how they should run their own game.

Now, it is not about what i am telling the devs to do, but how they want to do it? That is my base question.

he have establish the world, in the first game, about Grey Warden, Archdemon and such, then he want to divert fans attention into something else in the next game, a portion of what being established in DA:O, and it is not so great, there are many discrepancies in DA2 such as Apostate Blood Mage Viscount of Kirkwal, and many things...he feel that the critic make him feel negative about his work, his game and himself and his whole life, that show he is not professional.

The fan demand, he must answer.

If i am a writer, then a fan of my book critic, i must give explanation on what is going on, if the fan not satisfied, then i can do nothing because i am the one who wrote such thing, the blame is on me, the writer, not on the fan. I cannot blame the fan on something i done.

I am an artist (part time), i play music, when the listener say "you play suck", i cannot blame the listener, maybe i don't know where the "suck" part is, but i know that the listener listen it suck...maybe the listener is not a musician, he don't know anything about music, it doesn't make the critic is not valid...i cannot feel proud by saying "you are no musician, if you cannot appreciate me playing the music, so don't listen, **** off, this is my music"...and i cannot simply ignore the listeners, because they who listen what i am playing

Maybe i feel great with my work, i feel "you will never experience the thing if i don't do it", it doesn't make my work is good. As an artist, i cannot feel satisfied with my work, i must see everything is bad and negative my self, because i do it for my fans...not for me.

Yes, we can create something for our own satisfaction, but what most satisfying is the fan love it. What good making music only me who enjoy it but others hate it? i never say we cannot do that, we can, but for business, it is bad.

There is a composer in my country, he divide his work into two...for the mass and for himself. For the mass, he compose the songs what the mass want to hear, but he also compose the song he want to hear and release it. For those who love the song he want to hear will buy it, it is only for those who agree with his head. In both way, he make money.

An artist is the servant of the fans...never forget that...

An artist is NOT a servant of fans. Where on earth did you get this from? Art is not a democracy.

[sympathy4sarenreturns]

People left because they are tired of being around negative people? I'm sure some did. No...the majority of those who have left have done so because EAware butchered Dragon Age, ruined Mass Effect forever and got sick of the corporate gimmicks.

I wouldn't call myself a fan of BioWare. I was a fan of Mass Effect, and I enjoy the off-topic section to discuss gaming in general. Hordes of us hang out in there to talk Skyrim (now over 1,100 pages), The Witcher, Fallout, Dark Souls...plenty of other games... and general gaming topics. It's fun.

Being rude and disrespectful on a personal level is never acceptable. But when a base of customers get blatantly lied to...over and over...in our face...we are going to get mad. But our $60+ is already gone.

Didn't BioWare want the CoD crowd? Maybe these new fans are some of them. You didn't want your old fans...so they left.

Modifié par sympathy4sarenreturns, 10 janvier 2013 - 06:31 .

[TheJediSaint]

Rawgrim wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

*snip*

An artist is the servant of the fans...never forget that...

An artist is NOT a servant of fans. Where on earth did you get this from? Art is not a democracy.

Can we not derail this thread into an argument between the relationship between the artist and the audience?  I had enough of that in the ME3 forums. 

[Yuqi]

Pfor wrote...

*snip*

Now imagine having your feelings hurt every day in the same way, and you might see why he doesn't really like to post here. 

I barely go onto these forums because every second topic in the ME3 forum is like being in Groundhog Day. There are the same people writing the same pompous overblown essays about that one thing in ME3 that they can't stand, even when the rest of the world has long moved on. I can't imagine what it must feel like being a Bioware employee who in all likelihood has little to do with the particular gripe on hand but who will, nonetheless, get abused for it. 

+10

[duckley]

krul2k wrote...

haha yeah tbh once you play a bioware game there just aint no going anywhere else is there lol

yup !

[AtreiyaN7]

FlamingBoy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Pretty much everything that was said in the blog is why I don't even bother reading the ME3 general forums now. It was and IS a toxic place as far as I'm concerned, and reading all the crap in the place was actually making me angry and irritable. I ended up feeling as if avoidance was the best course of action.

I used to be one of the more civil people in the ME3 forums, but I've had quite enough of it all after nine-odd months of petulant whining and melodrama. The only times I ever pop in to that area now is if there's a DLC announcement or for multiplayer updates. Actually, I even avoided the DA3 forums for a long while because the whole DA2 thing was almost as unpleasant - meh.

"only times I ever pop in... dlc announcement... multiplayer updates"
According to your post history you were in the me3 forums discussing edi having a body 24 hours ago... this is hardly the almost never you described.

what may be percieved as dishonesty would probably be accidental, but you should take more care in the future because it affects credibility especially when you make your own personal character an issue

Gee, I'm so sorry for having made an exception when, almost miraculously, I saw a non-annoying thread title that seemed interesting in a friend's SU.

Barring that, what I said applies - I ignore the ME3 general forums entirely otherwise and pretty much have done so for quite a while now. If there's DLC info in there, I'll look/respond. I'll also go into the multiplayer forums as I said. The point was that the ME3 general forums as bad enough that that I won't go in there on my own now. All that place does is drive me insane to the point where I start becoming as bad as they are.

Here, if it makes you happy, I'll make sure to add the caveat that IF I see something interesting or snarkworthy in a friend's SU, I MIGHT say something in the ME3 general forums. Good?

[FlamingBoy]

Pfor wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

interesting, i am actually curious of the motives of releasing such a statement

He was clearly responding to someone's message. His blog post opens with the message and that's his answer. He very likely thought his answer would be informative to more than just the person who asked the question.

I bring it up because the "gaming journalist" jumped on it pretty fast, and made a few articles on it

I expect to see more unfortunetly

I just googled it.

http://kotaku.com/59...ly-toxic-forums

http://www.vg247.com...nging-feedback/

lolz

sigh.......great.

we're the big, bad fans again. hide your children.


edit: i'm gonna be honest. this kinda thing--and the way they're headlining it..it just kinda hurts my feelings. it does.

that is all.

i need to go to sleep anyway. goodnight all you meanies

Now imagine having your feelings hurt every day in the same way, and you might see why he doesn't really like to post here. 

I barely go onto these forums because every second topic in the ME3 forum is like being in Groundhog Day. There are the same people writing the same pompous overblown essays about that one thing in ME3 that they can't stand, even when the rest of the world has long moved on. I can't imagine what it must feel like being a Bioware employee who in all likelihood has little to do with the particular gripe on hand but who will, nonetheless, get abused for it. 

hardly matters when we are the ones who spent money and bioware has it

[FlamingBoy]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Pretty much everything that was said in the blog is why I don't even bother reading the ME3 general forums now. It was and IS a toxic place as far as I'm concerned, and reading all the crap in the place was actually making me angry and irritable. I ended up feeling as if avoidance was the best course of action.

I used to be one of the more civil people in the ME3 forums, but I've had quite enough of it all after nine-odd months of petulant whining and melodrama. The only times I ever pop in to that area now is if there's a DLC announcement or for multiplayer updates. Actually, I even avoided the DA3 forums for a long while because the whole DA2 thing was almost as unpleasant - meh.

"only times I ever pop in... dlc announcement... multiplayer updates"
According to your post history you were in the me3 forums discussing edi having a body 24 hours ago... this is hardly the almost never you described.

what may be percieved as dishonesty would probably be accidental, but you should take more care in the future because it affects credibility especially when you make your own personal character an issue

Gee, I'm so sorry for having made an exception when, almost miraculously, I saw a non-annoying thread title that seemed interesting in a friend's SU.

Barring that, what I said applies - I ignore the ME3 general forums entirely otherwise and pretty much have done so for quite a while now. If there's DLC info in there, I'll look/respond. I'll also go into the multiplayer forums as I said. The point was that the ME3 general forums as bad enough that that I won't go in there on my own now. All that place does is drive me insane to the point where I start becoming as bad as they are.

Here, if it makes you happy, I'll make sure to add the caveat that IF I see something interesting or snarkworthy in a friend's SU, I MIGHT say something in the ME3 general forums. Good?

Just keeping you honest, unfortunately the post history only goes so far back to check your claims more thoroughly

the passive aggresive tone of your post (if thats the case of course) is unneeded since it was you who made the claim in order to make your argument more convincing/credibility by placing such an opinion you opened yourself up to be criticised and called out.

[Rawgrim]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Pfor wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

interesting, i am actually curious of the motives of releasing such a statement

He was clearly responding to someone's message. His blog post opens with the message and that's his answer. He very likely thought his answer would be informative to more than just the person who asked the question.

I bring it up because the "gaming journalist" jumped on it pretty fast, and made a few articles on it

I expect to see more unfortunetly

I just googled it.

http://kotaku.com/59...ly-toxic-forums

http://www.vg247.com...nging-feedback/

lolz

sigh.......great.

we're the big, bad fans again. hide your children.


edit: i'm gonna be honest. this kinda thing--and the way they're headlining it..it just kinda hurts my feelings. it does.

that is all.

i need to go to sleep anyway. goodnight all you meanies

Now imagine having your feelings hurt every day in the same way, and you might see why he doesn't really like to post here. 

I barely go onto these forums because every second topic in the ME3 forum is like being in Groundhog Day. There are the same people writing the same pompous overblown essays about that one thing in ME3 that they can't stand, even when the rest of the world has long moved on. I can't imagine what it must feel like being a Bioware employee who in all likelihood has little to do with the particular gripe on hand but who will, nonetheless, get abused for it. 

hardly matters when we are the ones who spent money and bioware has it

Well, the money spent on a video game isn`t THAT much. And "the right" to attack people on a personal level, and abuse them, isn`t included in the price. Just saying.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Nizaris1 wrote...

An artist is NOT a servant of fans. Where on earth did you get this from? Art is not a democracy.

democracy = popularity

artist = politician

art = politic

art isn't defined by popularity hell some of the greatest artist of all time weren't recognised as such until long after their deaths. And even if it was it still wouldn't justify how some people on BSN voice their dislike 

[FlamingBoy]

Rawgrim wrote...



Well, the money spent on a video game isn`t THAT much. And "the right" to attack people on a personal level, and abuse them, isn`t included in the price. Just saying.

I should point out the arrogance to suggest what is "that much"for every individual person, I mean seriously

as for "the right" to attack a person (should point out that simple criticism is considered an "attack" by many people) unless your claiming that I attacked some one by being abusive then its a non-argument because your attacking a hypothetical.

[Rawgrim]

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

An artist is NOT a servant of fans. Where on earth did you get this from? Art is not a democracy.

democracy = popularity

artist = politician

art = politic

art isn't defined by popularity hell some of the greatest artist of all time weren't recognised as such until long after their deaths. And even if it was it still wouldn't justify how some people on BSN voice their dislike 

the "art is not a democracy" quote was from George R.R. Martin, actually. A well known artist.

[Fredward]

Yip. No way this thread is going to consume itself in a shower of toxic vitriol in the near future AT ALL. XD

[Rawgrim]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



Well, the money spent on a video game isn`t THAT much. And "the right" to attack people on a personal level, and abuse them, isn`t included in the price. Just saying.

I should point out the arrogance to suggest what is "that much"for every individual person, I mean seriously

as for "the right" to attack a person (should point out that simple criticism is considered an "attack" by many people) unless your claiming that I attacked some one by being abusive then its a non-argument because your attacking a hypothetical.

I wasn`t accusing you of attacking anyone. If you read Gaider`s blog, he clearly states that discussing likes\\dislikes with fans if perfectly ok. Its personal attacks and harassments he is getting fed up with. My point is just because someone spends, lets say 40 bucks, on a video game, that doesn`t make them entitled to attack the creator of it on a personal level. Thats all.

[Paul Sedgmore]

Rawgrim wrote...

Paul Sedgmore wrote...

Nizaris1 wrote...

An artist is NOT a servant of fans. Where on earth did you get this from? Art is not a democracy.

democracy = popularity

artist = politician

art = politic

art isn't defined by popularity hell some of the greatest artist of all time weren't recognised as such until long after their deaths. And even if it was it still wouldn't justify how some people on BSN voice their dislike 

the "art is not a democracy" quote was from George R.R. Martin, actually. A well known artist.

And one I happen to agree with

[addiction21]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...



Well, the money spent on a video game isn`t THAT much. And "the right" to attack people on a personal level, and abuse them, isn`t included in the price. Just saying.

I should point out the arrogance to suggest what is "that much"for every individual person, I mean seriously

as for "the right" to attack a person (should point out that simple criticism is considered an "attack" by many people) unless your claiming that I attacked some one by being abusive then its a non-argument because your attacking a hypothetical.

Its not that much because a video game is a luxury item that you do not need to survive and no one put a gun to your head and forced you to pay for a game.

And its no hypothetical since this is a thread discussing Mr. Gaiders response about the toxic atmosphere here and all to many use the excuse of "I paid for it so I can be a jerk" excuse.

[Rawgrim]

Nizaris1 wrote...

art isn't defined by popularity hell some of the greatest artist of all time weren't recognised as such until long after their deaths

I draw something, using crayon...actually i just draw rubbish, then i stuff it into a lock box...1000 yeras later an archaeologist dug up my house and found the lock box, see my drawing...it become the most popular art in the museum..."painted by a person named Nizaris"...everybody look in awe....

well...let see if DA2 become the most valuable art praised by peoples 1000 years later from now...

You are forgetting that art requires some sort of...you know...talent, as well.