210 réponses à ce sujet

[Stabby McGoodstab]

I like the Refusal ending from a thematic perspective. It makes sense to have it there and the result is exactly what I thought it would be.

Do you really think that this particular cycle was the only one that actively tried to fight the Reapers?

Do you really think people from past cycles didn't try equally suicidal things such as destroying Mass Relays (Arrival DLC), detonating stars to stop them (Haestrom) and trying to build/figure out the Crucible?

Do you think Shepard is so special that s/he alone could defeat the Reapers, just because s/he is your character, the protagonist?

Do you think there were no heroes like Shepard in the unknown number the cycles that came before this one?

All that considered, are you really surprised that you didn't succeed against an all-powerful race of godlike machines that dominated the galaxy for nearly as long as it existed?

[InvincibleHero]

xsdob wrote...

You know what's good about an open ending and refuse? You can ignore twitter and that entire tweet in your playthrough.

So in one of my playthroughs, shepard picked refuse and the crucible was never constructed, and the next cycle won by being thousands of years more prepared than our current cycle.

Hate to burst your headcannon bubble but what does a few thousand years gain you on a techno-organic machine races that existed a billion years and coollected tech from countless civilizations. Not only that they reaped the best minds of trillions of aliens and presumably have their knowledge to call upon.

[StoneSwords]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...
Sure people did not exactly agree with the different "choices" the Catalyst offered, though I'm sure people would not screw everyone over just to ****** off the brat.

Well, that's the thing... before the EC shipped there were a lot of threads about how "my Shepard would never trust the Catalyst, " or pick any of these choices, etc. and so forth. Hell, we had one of those yesterday. Just as a matter of RP, they had a fair case. Even if Refusal is stupid, players should be allowed to be stupid.

Whether they actually meant what they were saying, I can't say.

I don't think people who wanted the option to refuse pictured it going quite like that tho lol.  I honestly would love it it BW decided to make refusal with victory an option, but to answer the OP, yes, as it is now, refusal is a big middle finger to the fans who asked for it, whether BW meant it that way or not

[xAmilli0n]

xsdob wrote...

You know what's good about an open ending and refuse? You can ignore twitter and that entire tweet in your playthrough.

So in one of my playthroughs, shepard picked refuse and the crucible was never constructed, and the next cycle won by being thousands of years more prepared than our current cycle.

Actually, you're right, the next cycle using the Crucible came from twitter.

So, actually, I have no problem with refuse (if it makes sense for a particular Shepard with no metagaming).

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:06 .

[crimzontearz]

it is not an ending just a game over screen

[xsdob]

InvincibleHero wrote...

xsdob wrote...

You know what's good about an open ending and refuse? You can ignore twitter and that entire tweet in your playthrough.

So in one of my playthroughs, shepard picked refuse and the crucible was never constructed, and the next cycle won by being thousands of years more prepared than our current cycle.

Hate to burst your headcannon bubble but what does a few thousand years gain you on a techno-organic machine races that existed a billion years and coollected tech from countless civilizations. Not only that they reaped the best minds of trillions of aliens and presumably have their knowledge to call upon.

I don't know, I would imagine having schematics on reapers, locations of destroyed or at least off line reapers from this cycles battles, early access to thanix weaponry, advance designs for current technological level ships, warnings on indoctrination and the citadel being a trap, and thousands of years of advance mass effect feild technology, would give a much stronger edge to the next cycle than the two year warning we got.

I mean, look at what the protheans managed to accomplish in one cycle, they stopped the reapers meathod of taking over the galaxy by themselves. I would imagine we were doing similarly to the next cycle, only we were more successful than the protheans were at giving a warning.

[InvincibleHero]

crimzontearz wrote...

it is not an ending just a game over screen

True enough. Though to be fair BW put some effort into it.

What do you think happens when you pick your ball up and leave? The enemy isn't going to stop unless you make them. Those that refuse gave up their only chance as it was written to be thus.

[Mendelevosa]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...
Sure people did not exactly agree with the different "choices" the Catalyst offered, though I'm sure people would not screw everyone over just to ****** off the brat.

Well, that's the thing... before the EC shipped there were a lot of threads about how "my Shepard would never trust the Catalyst, " or pick any of these choices, etc. and so forth. Hell, we had one of those yesterday. Just as a matter of RP, they had a fair case. Even if Refusal is stupid, players should be allowed to be stupid.

Whether they actually meant what they were saying, I can't say. Those threads usually derailed into big fights over whether or not a conventional victory made sense, so we never got to the question of whether or not Bio should include Refuse if it meant losing.

Though people who wanted a refusal option also were in favor of winning the war conventionally, but with larger casualties. I'm pretty sure none of them expected to flat out lose the war and cause every sentient race to become extinct.

[InvincibleHero]

xsdob wrote...

I don't know, I would imagine having schematics on reapers, locations of destroyed or at least off line reapers from this cycles battles, early access to thanix weaponry, advance designs for current technological level ships, warnings on indoctrination and the citadel being a trap, and thousands of years of advance mass effect feild technology, would give a much stronger edge to the next cycle than the two year warning we got.

I mean, look at what the protheans managed to accomplish in one cycle, they stopped the reapers meathod of taking over the galaxy by themselves. I would imagine we were doing similarly to the next cycle, only we were more successful than the protheans were at giving a warning.

Or it could go the opposite way. the close call convinces them to be be more careful spending extra time ferreting out all caches of info and all tech and clues are scrubbed from the galaxy. The catalyst installs more failsafes and comes up with a more effective plan of action to keep the cycles more efficient than before.

[crimzontearz]

InvincibleHero wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

it is not an ending just a game over screen

True enough. Though to be fair BW put some effort into it.

What do you think happens when you pick your ball up and leave? The enemy isn't going to stop unless you make them. Those that refuse gave up their only chance as it was written to be thus.

not the point really....given the circumstances it felt more like "don't like the choices....you lose"

[AlanC9]

StoneSwords wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Well, that's the thing... before the EC shipped there were a lot of threads about how "my Shepard would never trust the Catalyst, " or pick any of these choices, etc. and so forth. Hell, we had one of those yesterday. Just as a matter of RP, they had a fair case. Even if Refusal is stupid, players should be allowed to be stupid.

Whether they actually meant what they were saying, I can't say.

I don't think people who wanted the option to refuse pictured it going quite like that tho lol.  I honestly would love it it BW decided to make refusal with victory an option, but to answer the OP, yes, as it is now, refusal is a big middle finger to the fans who asked for it, whether BW meant it that way or not

I wasn't clear. The way those threads typically went was that people asked for Shepard to be able to Refuse, rather than asking to win by Refusing. Maybe because the case for Refuse as an RP option is sound but an actual Refuse victory is pretty silly, so people went with the argument that wasn't easy to dismiss.

[InvincibleHero]

Mendelevosa wrote...

Though people who wanted a refusal option also were in favor of winning the war conventionally, but with larger casualties. I'm pretty sure none of them expected to flat out lose the war and cause every sentient race to become extinct.

Who gets to write the terms of their win? They wanted their cake and to gorge on it too. The refusal cake was a lie invented by people that couldn't accept the options that were given. As if you can rewrite reality to be more to your liking if the ME3 ending were and actual occurance. It happens the way the creators want or it doesn't at all period. BW was kind to offer more to fans that were unhappy, but unfortunately not enough to appease some people having unrealistic expectations.

[StoneSwords]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mendelevosa wrote...

Though people who wanted a refusal option also were in favor of winning the war conventionally, but with larger casualties. I'm pretty sure none of them expected to flat out lose the war and cause every sentient race to become extinct.

Who gets to write the terms of their win? They wanted their cake and to gorge on it too. The refusal cake was a lie invented by people that couldn't accept the options that were given. As if you can rewrite reality to be more to your liking if the ME3 ending were and actual occurance. It happens the way the creators want or it doesn't at all period. BW was kind to offer more to fans that were unhappy, but unfortunately not enough to appease some people having unrealistic expectations.

 
This a sci-fi, action RPG, why are you talking about rewriting reality?  This is fiction, not real life. Half the stuff Shepard has pulled off throughout the trilogy is unrealistic if you get right down to it.  But you are right, whatever happens is ultimately up to the writers and devs

[David7204]

Let's not throw the word 'realistic' around too loosely, now. What stuff has Shepard done that's unrealistic?

[Sundance31us]

xsdob wrote...

People forget fans demanded to refuse the catalyst, even if it resulted in their losing the game.

I can find the post after post to prove it to, if you'd like.

No need. I was here and saw them as well.

[InvincibleHero]

StoneSwords wrote...

This a sci-fi, action RPG, why are you talking about rewriting reality?  This is fiction, not real life. Half the stuff Shepard has pulled off throughout the trilogy is unrealistic if you get right down to it.  But you are right, whatever happens is ultimately up to the writers and devs

Because you can't demand rewrites in real life when you don't like something that happens.  They wanted to insert an ending they liked and didn't care for the needs of the owner of the IP. It ends how they want for specific reasons and as it is to their financial well-being they make the call not fans.

[MacroSpamMK]

"Haha, I sure showed that Catalyst whose boss by not picking any of his options!"

And thus a trillion people died.
Refuse logic.

[liggy002]

Mendelevosa wrote...

 I honestly do not see the point of this ending option being added into the game. By refusing to do what the Catalyst wants, Shepard essentially throws away the efforts of building the Crucible and dooms the sentient races of the galaxy into extinction. Sure people did not exactly agree with the different "choices" the Catalyst offered, though I'm sure people would not screw everyone over just to ****** off the brat.

It's as if Bioware's response to the raging outcry regarding the endings was "So you don't like our endings? Okay then, @%&# YOU!! The end."

Regardless of how Bioware intended Refusal to be interpreted, I think it was uncalled for to add galactic suicide as a non-colorful ending option.

I agree. 

[Aaleel]

I thought it was Bioware being tired of people complaining about the endings and asking for a refusal choice. Then they just said you wanted this, now everyone dies and the next cycle uses the Crucible anyway, are you happy now.

I don't know if this is true or not because my friend jokes a lot, but he said that at the end of his Insanity run he picked refusal and didn't even get the achievement, then when he picked something else he got it. If that's true it really is a big game over screen.

Personally I've never seen the logic. My goal was to defeat the reapers and preserve the continuity of the advanced Organic races. It was failing to me, after deviating from the plan every race agreed to and many laid down their lives to accomplish.

[liggy002]

Stabby McGoodstab wrote...

I like the Refusal ending from a thematic perspective. It makes sense to have it there and the result is exactly what I thought it would be.

Do you really think that this particular cycle was the only one that actively tried to fight the Reapers?

Do you really think people from past cycles didn't try equally suicidal things such as destroying Mass Relays (Arrival DLC), detonating stars to stop them (Haestrom) and trying to build/figure out the Crucible?

Do you think Shepard is so special that s/he alone could defeat the Reapers, just because s/he is your character, the protagonist?

Do you think there were no heroes like Shepard in the unknown number the cycles that came before this one?

All that considered, are you really surprised that you didn't succeed against an all-powerful race of godlike machines that dominated the galaxy for nearly as long as it existed?

Do you think that Shepard is so special that he can jump into a green beam and magically transfer his DNA to every organism in the galaxy?  Apparently Bioware does.

Modifié par liggy002, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:48 .

[AlanC9]

Mendelevosa wrote...
Though people who wanted a refusal option also were in favor of winning the war conventionally, but with larger casualties. I'm pretty sure none of them expected to flat out lose the war and cause every sentient race to become extinct.

That's the problem... when we went off into the question of whether a CV was possible or not, we never got back to the question of whether Shepard should be allowed to Refuse if it would result in disaster. Everyone just assumed that Refuse itself was good as a matter of RP; nobody ever actually got to the question of whether a Refuse failure would just hurt people's feelings.

[AlanC9]

Aaleel wrote...

I don't know if this is true or not because my friend jokes a lot, but he said that at the end of his Insanity run he picked refusal and didn't even get the achievement, then when he picked something else he got it. If that's true it really is a big game over screen.

Personally I've never seen the logic. My goal was to defeat the reapers and preserve the continuity of the advanced Organic races. It was failing to me, after deviating from the plan every race agreed to and many laid down their lives to accomplish.

Yep. Refuse is a failure. It doesn't get the achievement that the winning endings get

[Mr. Gogeta34]

What do you expect an old man to come up with on the spur of the moment?  It's that old man's story, let him tell it how he wants.  We may never know what really happened.

[Sajuro]

It was a middle finger to all those who dared to derp