210 réponses à ce sujet

[KotorEffect3]

NightAntilli wrote...

The whole game told you for 40+ hours, that you can not win by military might. I'm glad they added it in there.

Pretty much all three games told us that the reapers couldn't be defeated conventionaly.  It took the alliance fifth fleet and the citadel fleet to take down sovereign and I am still not sure they would have taken him down if Shepard hadn't killed off his Saren avatar.  Hell it took the entire migrant fleet to take down one little destroyer.  And it took Shepard spotting for them in order to do it succesfully.  The point to building the fleet in ME 3 was not to defeat the reapers conventionaly it was to buy time for the crucible to be deployed.  The fleet was nothing more than cannon fodder to keep the reapers occupied.

[SpamBot2000]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Refusers get what they deserve. It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. It wasn't in the original endings.

"Get what they deserve", huh? For not jumping at the chance to join the Reaper program, presumably. For the moral failure of role playing a Shepard that wouldn't do that. 

You player haters are truly twisted.

[KotorEffect3]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Refusers get what they deserve. It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. It wasn't in the original endings.

"Get what they deserve", huh? For not jumping at the chance to join the Reaper program, presumably. For the moral failure of role playing a Shepard that wouldn't do that. 

You player haters are truly twisted.

I love it when refusers bring up the morals of Shepard when their Shepards would allow the galaxy to burn in order to just stick to their guns.  Sorry there is no morality in letting every civilization in the galaxy to be harvested because you simply refuse to use the only weapon that can truly destroy all of the reapers and stop the cycle permanently.  Also I am pretty sure shooting the tubes and destroying every reaper in the galaxy is not "joining" them.  Javik would shoot the tube.

[SpamBot2000]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Refusers get what they deserve. It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. It wasn't in the original endings.

"Get what they deserve", huh? For not jumping at the chance to join the Reaper program, presumably. For the moral failure of role playing a Shepard that wouldn't do that. 

You player haters are truly twisted.

I love it when refusers bring up the morals of Shepard when their Shepards would allow the galaxy to burn in order to just stick to their guns.  Sorry there is no morality in letting every civilization in the galaxy to be harvested because you simply refuse to use the only weapon that can truly destroy all of the reapers and stop the cycle permanently.  Also I am pretty sure shooting the tubes and destroying every reaper in the galaxy is not "joining" them.  Javik would shoot the tube.

This seems to be a pretty popular way of missing the point. I'm not gonna bother to go into it yet again, but refusing what the Reaper King is peddling is not the same as deciding to do nothing. It's only that way because they made it so, hence 'a big middle finger'.

[David7204]

You're refusing the option not because of the actual option, but just because of who's offering it, huh?

You certainly see that in real life. People disagreeing with someone just because they don't want to agree with them. They don't want to admit the other person is right, out of spite.

Do you know how incredibly easy to manipulate that makes them?

[SpamBot2000]

David7204 wrote...

You're refusing the option not because of the actual option, but just because of who's offering it, huh?

You certainly see that in real life. People disagreeing with someone just because they don't want to agree with them. They don't want to admit the other person is right, out of spite.

Do you know how incredibly easy to manipulate that makes them?

The option itself is terrible. The fact that it's offered by the worst thing that ever existed in the galaxy is just a bonus, and makes unquestioning acceptance pretty problematic.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 janvier 2013 - 09:42 .

[KotorEffect3]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Refusers get what they deserve. It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. It wasn't in the original endings.

"Get what they deserve", huh? For not jumping at the chance to join the Reaper program, presumably. For the moral failure of role playing a Shepard that wouldn't do that. 

You player haters are truly twisted.

I love it when refusers bring up the morals of Shepard when their Shepards would allow the galaxy to burn in order to just stick to their guns.  Sorry there is no morality in letting every civilization in the galaxy to be harvested because you simply refuse to use the only weapon that can truly destroy all of the reapers and stop the cycle permanently.  Also I am pretty sure shooting the tubes and destroying every reaper in the galaxy is not "joining" them.  Javik would shoot the tube.

This seems to be a pretty popular way of missing the point. I'm not gonna bother to go into it yet again, but refusing what the Reaper King is peddling is not the same as deciding to do nothing. It's only that way because they made it so, hence 'a big middle finger'.

It is made clear over and over again in all three games that the reapers are not going to be defeated conventionaly.  By not using the one device that can destroy them you are essentialy doing nothing. 

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 12 janvier 2013 - 09:42 .

[David7204]

The option to Destroy the Reapers is terrible?

[Brovikk Rasputin]

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

[KotorEffect3]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You're refusing the option not because of the actual option, but just because of who's offering it, huh?

You certainly see that in real life. People disagreeing with someone just because they don't want to agree with them. They don't want to admit the other person is right, out of spite.

Do you know how incredibly easy to manipulate that makes them?

The option itself is terrible. The fact that it's offered by the worst thing that ever existed in the galaxy is just a bonus, and makes unquestioning acceptance pretty problematic.

The catalyst is simply a super advanced computer program telling you how you can take it offline.  That is how you have to view it.   But refusers would rather give into their vanity, stubborness, and emotions than doing the one thing that makes sense.

[SpamBot2000]

David7204 wrote...

The option to Destroy the Reapers is terrible?

Oh, come on. You know perfectly well what is terrible about it. Sometimes playing dumb with questions is Socratic, and sometimes it's just being a pain.

[KotorEffect3]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

+1

[SpamBot2000]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

You go find me the quote of my asking for that and maybe I will get over it. 

[Ultranovae]

 Refuse can be kinda cool if you role play the right way, yeah it's a terrible choice I would never pick no matter how many lifetimes I lived, but some people choose it and imbues their character with a sense of tragedy the likes of Greek tragedies, where the protagonist's main trait becomes its greatest liability.

 It's one expensive middle finger if you ask me cause creating cinematics ain't cheap. I'm pretty sure that was not the intention but if you choose to be offended oh well.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

You go find me the quote of my asking for that and maybe I will get over it. 

Bioware can't take the opinion of every single person into consideration when creating content for their games. Many people asked for it. Bioware delivered. 

[AchesOfDoom]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

You go find me the quote of my asking for that and maybe I will get over it. 

Bioware can't take the opinion of every single person into consideration when creating content for their games. Many people asked for it. Bioware delivered. 

I personally don't find Bioware guilty of intergrating 'Refuse' as it was requested by several users of this forum, as you said.

[KotorEffect3]

AchesOfDoom wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

You go find me the quote of my asking for that and maybe I will get over it. 

Bioware can't take the opinion of every single person into consideration when creating content for their games. Many people asked for it. Bioware delivered. 

I personally don't find Bioware guilty of intergrating 'Refuse' as it was requested by several users of this forum, as you said.

There were tons of people during the the whinefest that took place between the release of the game and the release of the EC that said they wanted an option to refuse the catalyst even if it meant losing the war the with the reapers.  They got what they asked for.  In my opinon bioware was being generous to even give them that.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 12 janvier 2013 - 10:03 .

[SpamBot2000]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I remember people asking for the option to refuse any of the original ending options, even if it meant that the cycle would continue. You get what you ask for. Get over it.

You go find me the quote of my asking for that and maybe I will get over it. 

Bioware can't take the opinion of every single person into consideration when creating content for their games. Many people asked for it. Bioware delivered. 

Yeah? Name two.

[Mendelevosa]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

The whole game told you for 40+ hours, that you can not win by military might. I'm glad they added it in there.

Pretty much all three games told us that the reapers couldn't be defeated conventionaly.  It took the alliance fifth fleet and the citadel fleet to take down sovereign and I am still not sure they would have taken him down if Shepard hadn't killed off his Saren avatar.  Hell it took the entire migrant fleet to take down one little destroyer.  And it took Shepard spotting for them in order to do it succesfully.  The point to building the fleet in ME 3 was not to defeat the reapers conventionaly it was to buy time for the crucible to be deployed.  The fleet was nothing more than cannon fodder to keep the reapers occupied.

The things that bug me about the whole option is that it is complete galactic suicide. No matter what Shepard has done throughout the games, the refusal option always equals an embarrassing loss 100% of the time with all sentient life in the galaxy destroyed. And the next life cycle uses the Crucible anyways. So Shepard might as well pick one of the colors.

And I know fans were requesting the refusal option, but I think Bioware should have just ignored that request, especially since it is a choice that not even the least intelligent people in real life would choose if they knew the consequences.

I feel this choice is a middle finger because it is a cheap shot in the gut to state what was already said in the past.

[Winterfly]

Mendelevosa wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

The whole game told you for 40+ hours, that you can not win by military might. I'm glad they added it in there.

Pretty much all three games told us that the reapers couldn't be defeated conventionaly.  It took the alliance fifth fleet and the citadel fleet to take down sovereign and I am still not sure they would have taken him down if Shepard hadn't killed off his Saren avatar.  Hell it took the entire migrant fleet to take down one little destroyer.  And it took Shepard spotting for them in order to do it succesfully.  The point to building the fleet in ME 3 was not to defeat the reapers conventionaly it was to buy time for the crucible to be deployed.  The fleet was nothing more than cannon fodder to keep the reapers occupied.

The things that bug me about the whole option is that it is complete galactic suicide. No matter what Shepard has done throughout the games, the refusal option always equals an embarrassing loss 100% of the time with all sentient life in the galaxy destroyed. And the next life cycle uses the Crucible anyways. So Shepard might as well pick one of the colors.

And I know fans were requesting the refusal option, but I think Bioware should have just ignored that request, especially since it is a choice that not even the least intelligent people in real life would choose if they knew the consequences.

I feel this choice is a middle finger because it is a cheap shot in the gut to state what was already said in the past.

The f unny thing is.

That the Reapers can be defeated with conventional means. They are not that powerful.

4 Dreadnaughts I believe, is enough to take down a capital ship of the Sovereign class with "todays" techonology in ME. The development gone forward and had the Council listened and mass produced ships and en masse conscription and training of all available colonies, the Reapers would off been defeated in all out battles as they entered Council space! 

I am still pretty sure that the refuse options would give the Reapers one hell of a big dent in their unreakable armor if you bring Quarian, Krogan and Geth to the fray and the DLC extra dudes would help even more in destroying Reaper numbers for the next cycle. Hell, Bioware just gave us the F'finger for talking poorly of their bad bad ending. The Reapers always lived on the suprise of taking the "Capital"  aka the Citadel at first to break out confusion and lack of chain of command from the top combined with indoctrination which more or less already been confirmed in Commander Shepards cycle. The preperations that could have been done by that time would be enormous and imagine if Shepard had blown up the Mass Relay in the Batarian system as the Reapers entered? That would even give them a dent.

[RiouHotaru]

For people mad that the next cycle uses the Crucible?

Why wouldn't they?

All Liara's capsule says is that it didn't work. It doesn't say why it didn't work, or what caused it to fail when hooked up. The fact her capsule likely references the fact the Catalyst IS the Citadel is a big deal.

It's like if a friend of yours leaves behind a device, say a half-finished laptop or an iPod, and a note that says "Here's a thing I put together. I just couldn't get it to work." Are you really just going to toss it aside and go "Why bother"?

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 15 janvier 2013 - 10:08 .

[BleedingUranium]

If you play the game from a literal perspective, then everything happens as you see it, even Synthesis. So if you don't want Synthesis, the  so-called best (but disgusting) one, pick Control, and if you don't like the idea of the Reapers becoming Space Big Brother, then pick Destroy. Refuse is just plain worse than Destroy, in literally every single way possible.

If you play the game from an IT perspective, then Destroy isn't one of the kid's choices. The choices are just metaphors for Shepard's possible goal: destroying the Reapers, attempting to control them, or adopting their methods and goals as your own. Every single Shepard, not matter how you play yours, enters the room wanting to destroy the Reapers, and since they're just representations of possible goals, and that is Shepard's goal, it has to exist. All the kid can do is tell you you shouldn't do it and that it's bad, but he cannot make it go away.

So, in either case, there's no reason to pick Refuse. The only actual reasons are to say FU to Bioware/the kid/the end/whatever, but those are meta reasons and have nothing to do with the actual narrative.

In short, you can't not trust the kid but also take the endings literally, those two mutually exclusive, thus, there is never any reason to pick Refuse.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 15 janvier 2013 - 11:24 .

[Winterfly]

I got to say I find it pretty damn hillarious on people saying "Bioware" listened when they made that poor mans refusal option.

[Bfler]

The thing is, Shepard looks like an idiot after his refusal speech. At least he could order a strike against his own position as an attempt to eliminate the catalyst.

Modifié par Bfler, 15 janvier 2013 - 03:55 .

[Kel Riever]

You know, I sadly sometimes think that some vaporhead actually thought the Refusal ending might be some way of acquiescing to the crowd of people who hated the three choices, and giving them some of what they wanted, but still mutantly following the path of their own god awful nonsense idea of a story.

Of course, they could have maybe realized that people would receive it as a middle finger if, you know, they did things like acutally check their ideas with others. And let's not forget, this is being EXTREMELY generous with the thinking of the writers. Because in all likelyhood, it still is a giant middle finger to the fans by some ****** poor writer.