300 réponses à ce sujet

[Feneckus]

No, it's not a thread about infiltrators/balance, although it could have been.

It's supposed to be a co-op game, but the truth is, 4 lone wolves will almost always be more efficient than a 4-man team working together. Even worse, some kits are better off staying the **** away from others.

- Power classes can't stay close to Destroyers / Geth or Sentry Turrets / Combat Drones because those things will make phantoms/praetorians/banshees bubble up. Let's say you're a MQE with a Power Amp IV. You can kill phantoms with Arc grenade -> incinerate. It takes litteraly two seconds. But if you're close to a Destroyer with Hawk Missile Launchers, you won't be able to use your powers, so you have to use your weapon on those two phantoms, which even with the Destroyer's help will take significantly longer than 2s. Which of course means more time for dragoons to flank you or something like that.

- Weapon users can't stay near someone with a screen shaking power. It is so frustrating to be swarmed by phantoms during a hack because you missed 3 Javelin headshots thanks to that Batarian Sentinel spamming shockwave. Again, you would have been much more efficient on your own.

- My Claymore Batarian Adept can't play with other biotics. Warp + Claymore with Warp Ammo IV + Cluster Nades = Dead Brute. However, if someones uses reave or any other biotic power before my Claymore shot, I won't get warp ammo's damage bonus and the Brute will survive because the biotic explosion does pathetic damage compared to my Claymore.

- Try detonating a BE vs armor when someone is using disruptor ammo. Unless you have cluster grenades, it's impossible and you end up doing less damage because of it. Same thing if some genius decides to use energy drain or overload vs armor.

- Vorchas/Melee Krogans have to stay away from others because it's the only way they can reliably get kills to fuel their bloodlust/rage.

- You can't ever stay near a flamer spammer because yon won't be able to see a goddamn thing.

Teamwork is possible and can be effective. Shield boost + phase disruptor for example is quite nice. Or snap freeze + chain overload, although it's a cheap exploit. But the truth is, 95% of the time you're better off on your own, away from the rest of your team. That doesn't make sense in a co-op game.

Wouldn't it be nice if the best possible team was 4 guys working together, creating combos left and right, one guy's strengths being another's weakness or something like that ? Instead, it's 4 GIs who happen to be on the same map. Meh. 

[HolyAvenger]

The main problem is DPS trumps all. Lets make CC, survivability etc. more important...


...no medigelling.

[NuclearTech76]

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers. Generally in PUGs, you're better off staying semi close but away from the team anyways IMO.

[GriM_AoD]

Maybe if the enemy spawn count was higher...

[cory257383]

DPS is almost always the most important thing in a game that has HP. The more DPS the quicker the enemy dies.

So in games like this their isnt much to do about it. buff the biotic classes so the DPS isnt all in the hands of weapon users.

[Harting-EN]

What is the so called problem with the double prime? If u prime a brute with warp and smo does also eg. with inc-ammo. With the first trigger (e. g. throw) u trigger the fireexplosion and with the 2nd u trigger the BE. Simple as that. No idea why people complain about this. It is freaking effective.

Ever played a game with 4 biotics? Not, than i understand why u think so. 4 Biotics will beat 4 destroyers easily!

I also play often humand adept, and i had never ever an destroyer above me in the scoreboard, just for ur reference.

[JLoco11]

There is a difference with playing with randoms and playing as a team with people you know. Playing with randoms, you get a group that has no synergy.

However, if you play with a group of friends who understand teamwork, then you get a solid team. When I team up, we decide in lobby if we're going biotic, tech, melee etc. We don't have 3 biotics and 1 person with energy drain. We don't have 2 snipers and then 2 melee krogans, things like that don't work.

The exact reasons of why randoms fail, is why co-op is also successful. If you don't strive to work as a team, it becomes harder. When your team works at synergy, then you reap the benefits.

[Sailears]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The main problem is DPS trumps all. Lets make CC, survivability etc. more important...


...no medigelling.

That, in a nutshell is the problem, which also affects the coop play.

Nothing compares to raw dps, whether it is from weapons or powers.

[cory257383]

I like your points but 4 good destroyers or 4 good GI's will not be beat by a biotic team

Fact/

[N7Dropout1]

Point one is so damn frustrating as an adept. I was on my huntress and I can kill phantoms across the map with a single cast of dark channel. At least a dozen times my teammates would use a weak tech power on them and forced them to bubble, giving them complete immunity from my one-hit kill ability. So frustrating.

[DeadeyeCYclops]

lol just now figuring this out....i am dissapointed in you Mr Feneckus..... very dissapointed

[Blind2Society]

Feneckus wrote...

However, if someones uses reave or any other biotic power before my Claymore shot, I won't get warp ammo's damage bonus

Doesn't any biotic power with an active effect count for warp ammo?

[Zero132132]

This can be mitigated by choosing complimentary classes in lobbies. Truthfully, though, I usually find 4 lone wolfs to be a fun way to play the game. I still will rush halfway across the map for a revive, so there can be someteamwork in four people doing **** separately.

Modifié par Zero132132, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:40 .

[HolyAvenger]

cory257383 wrote...

DPS is almost always the most important thing in a game that has HP. The more DPS the quicker the enemy dies.

So in games like this their isnt much to do about it. buff the biotic classes so the DPS isnt all in the hands of weapon users.

The only difficulty I find in SP mode these days is that Shepard cannot gel, and cannot be rez'd. All of a sudden, rushing spawns becomes a trickier notion, CC using biotic powers becomes a heckuva lot more useful and I start thinking a lot more about survivability as opposed to pure DPS in order to take a little longer and finish successfully as opposed to trying to finish faster and dying.

I would really be interested in just how the balance of the game would change if they took away the ability to gel, and maybe even rez your teammates.

[Harting-EN]

Sorry cory, but a good biotic team will kill everything out of spawn. We often make gold in 14-16 minutes, just with biotics... nvm. In my oppinion there is nothing more effective on me3 mp than a synergetic playing biotic squad.

[cory257383]

^ It would just make you play careful and defensive thus makes the games longer

[HolyAvenger]

cory257383 wrote...

^ It would just make you play careful and defensive thus makes the games longer

It would also make it more important to use CC abilities and co-ordinate with your team imo.

[Feneckus]

cory257383 wrote...

I like your points but 4 good destroyers or 4 good GI's will not be beat by a biotic team

Fact/

Maybe, but I'm not talking about balance here.

What I'm saying is, when there's a Destroyer with Hawk Missile Launchers on your team, you either have to stay the **** away from him or pick a weapon class, otherwise he'll impact your game in a negative way.

All this "DPS is most important, weapons > powers" talk is irrelevant, that's not what I was trying to say. I was just saying that playing this game as a co-op game is counterproductive 95% of the time. 

[genomandril]

Agreed.

Objectives should have fortified the co-op aspect of the game. However, they failed at that. Pizza carrying? Sounds nice on paper. Implementation was rather... Comical.

[megawug]

That's why I play duos sometimes (biotic & engi). Close-knit teamwork is the playstyle I enjoy most, but I've only found a few people who can do it. But I'm an old school, Hidden & Dangerous kinda player.

[Harting-EN]

of course the speedrun-recordsplayer are probably done by teams who aren't interested in true synergetic playing.

They should really give it a try, i bet they would break some records with an biotic squad.

sry, but infs are just the easy way more or less foolproof.

Modifié par Harting-EN, 10 janvier 2013 - 03:49 .

[HolyAvenger]

Feneckus wrote...

All this "DPS is most important, weapons > powers" talk is irrelevant, that's not what I was trying to say. I was just saying that playing this game as a co-op game is counterproductive 95% of the time. 

Interrelated. If you made co-op mechanics have the most DPS, you'd see it become more important.