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#251
Zero132132

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Derp88 wrote...

I think a lot of these habits stem from the scoreboard in my opinion. I don't really understand why it was implemented in the first place. Some players become obsessed with scoring 1st place that they focus less on teamwork, and more on just ramboing which can lead to some pretty sticky situations for the team. (e.g. messing up spawn points, become flanked, die in a very awkward position, hard to revive, etc)

I think if the scoreboard was removed, people would become less obsessed with kills and more likely to work as a team.

You can believe what you want, but that doesn't make it true. It's pretty damned boring not to kill stuff. I rambo because I get bored as **** if I don't. I don't even do it smartly, either; I'm the jackass that causes divided spawns. Divided spawns are actually good for rambos, because it means that all 8 enemies aren't attacking you at once if you rush a group.

I do wish that the scoreboard wasn't visible during the match, though. That'd make things simpler, because even though I try not to give a ****, I do. I don't want to be the guy that's dead last by 60k, and I absolutely have been in Platinum.

#252
Derp88

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Zero132132 wrote...

Derp88 wrote...

I think a lot of these habits stem from the scoreboard in my opinion. I don't really understand why it was implemented in the first place. Some players become obsessed with scoring 1st place that they focus less on teamwork, and more on just ramboing which can lead to some pretty sticky situations for the team. (e.g. messing up spawn points, become flanked, die in a very awkward position, hard to revive, etc)

I think if the scoreboard was removed, people would become less obsessed with kills and more likely to work as a team.

You can believe what you want, but that doesn't make it true. It's pretty damned boring not to kill stuff. I rambo because I get bored as **** if I don't. I don't even do it smartly, either; I'm the jackass that causes divided spawns. Divided spawns are actually good for rambos, because it means that all 8 enemies aren't attacking you at once if you rush a group.

I do wish that the scoreboard wasn't visible during the match, though. That'd make things simpler, because even though I try not to give a ****, I do. I don't want to be the guy that's dead last by 60k, and I absolutely have been in Platinum.


That's absolutely fine, but kind of proves my point. If ramboing spawns is your way of making the game fun, go for it! But causing those divided spawns can put your teammates in a difficult position.

#253
Tybo

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Cyonan wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If Reave had a 100% increased BE bug or evo, it would be doing the same thing.


I can't argue with that "logic".

Besides, as loonyspectre said, basically every single power can detonate Snap Freeze. Even most biotic powers will do the trick.


The only non biotic AoE detonate that gets mentioned is Overload, which I can probably blame Overload almost as much as I can blame Snap Freeze, honestly with the really screwed up modifiers it gets from evolutions.

tyhw wrote...

I can't argue against cluster grenades, they are clearly a match for SF>overload.  But that's more because cluster grenades are awesome than because you do multiple detonations (fairly uncommon in practice)However, I would definitely call Nova an inferior detonator to overload.  You can only detonate 1 per nova.  You can do them fairly quickly, but not as fast as chain overload.  And against shields/barriers (which you will usually be hitting), nova does less damage.  It can only hit as many targets as overload too, though it does do more damage to the secondary targets, it will do less overall with an aoe primer due to less explosions.


1 Nova Half-Blast will do 2835 damage to barriers with consumables or 1890 to shields which is hardly a small number. The damage also does not drop across each target like Chain Overload does, even though it will hit the first target harder(due in part to some odd multiplier mechanics).

It also does something that resembles damage against armour and health, which again is not a negligible thing.

Even at 1 per cast I can still get 3 off within the duration of a single GCD due to 2x Nova + Biotic Charge.

I also did a quick test but I should probably double check with you: Incinerate and Inferno Grenades can prime shielded targets for FEs, yes? I'm noticing the sound/visual, but I didn't have the memory reader running so I didn't check for damage all that accurately.


Fair enough.  I still think the increase in explosions set off makes overload better, but I can understand the dissenting opinion.  

I believe I've seen the numbers for setting off a FE on shields before, but I can't find them so I can't say 100% yes.  From in-game experience, though, I would definitely say that they do happen.

#254
Deerber

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tyhw wrote...

I believe I've seen the numbers for setting off a FE on shields before, but I can't find them so I can't say 100% yes.  From in-game experience, though, I would definitely say that they do happen.


Uhm, I wasn't going to contradict Feneckus since I'm not sure, but since you mentioned this... I think I've seen incendiary ammo setting up FEs on shielded opponents sometimes. Am I confused, or can that happen?

#255
SSuicideKKing666

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The game needs better transparency of stats and effects, as it is now far too much of the game's important information can only be reliably found outside of the game itself.

Also communication in PUGs is terrible and not only because most people don't talk, that is a symptom of the real issue, which is the match making system itself. I often find myself in games with people that don't speak the same language as myself or anyone else in the game. Example today I had a game with one Russia or Ukrainian (at least I'm pretty sure he was) and two French players (I speak very limited French) This game was agravating, everytime anyone spoke it was pretty much useless, they might as well have not spoken at all.
This sort of thing happens all the time, most of the time its not that bad, but that happens often enough that most games I and most other players too, just mute their mic.
I think giving regional play options would encourage more communication.

A chat box for PC would be amazing, but that's just not gonna happen.

Modifié par SSuicideKKing666, 11 janvier 2013 - 02:00 .


#256
Zero132132

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Derp88 wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Derp88 wrote...

I think a lot of these habits stem from the scoreboard in my opinion. I don't really understand why it was implemented in the first place. Some players become obsessed with scoring 1st place that they focus less on teamwork, and more on just ramboing which can lead to some pretty sticky situations for the team. (e.g. messing up spawn points, become flanked, die in a very awkward position, hard to revive, etc)

I think if the scoreboard was removed, people would become less obsessed with kills and more likely to work as a team.

You can believe what you want, but that doesn't make it true. It's pretty damned boring not to kill stuff. I rambo because I get bored as **** if I don't. I don't even do it smartly, either; I'm the jackass that causes divided spawns. Divided spawns are actually good for rambos, because it means that all 8 enemies aren't attacking you at once if you rush a group.

I do wish that the scoreboard wasn't visible during the match, though. That'd make things simpler, because even though I try not to give a ****, I do. I don't want to be the guy that's dead last by 60k, and I absolutely have been in Platinum.

That's absolutely fine, but kind of proves my point. If ramboing spawns is your way of making the game fun, go for it! But causing those divided spawns can put your teammates in a difficult position.

I mostly play with others that think similarly. We revive each other and do objectives, but the main tactic seems to be to run around like chickens with our heads cut off. An exception is some Platinum matches, but by and large, we run around the entire match, mostly getting near each other when there's one boss left or someone goes down.

Truthfully, I'm often doing similar things in PUGs when I PUG, but I at least bother to feel bad about it. I try not to PUG for this exact reason.

#257
Xeraphas

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I concur.  Your perspective is minus about 40% less of the average viewing range of a average human.  This was not the case in ME1, and it is not the case when you are ghosting your team mates if you are downed.  I would expect you would ghost over the left shoulder like you play in and play in the ghost like middle screen character view.  They got that backwards.  
They have an overworked button well several in fact.  The X button revives, runs, ducks, takes cover, and climbs over cover.  They often smack into each other during the game which probably causes the button and commands to fail miserably where you cover when you want to revive or hurdle over cover when you want to cover or duck when you want to run.  If they had you hold a button for some commands to differentiate them more then this would not be such a prominent problem.  It is getting worse the more complex, challenging, and with the increasing number of enemies we face in each game.  They should fix the controls and their sluggish response times Before they add gobs more of enemies.
The game is also generally unbalanced.  More so now that they are trying to make all enemies exactly the same with the same threats.  It used to be only Geth could constantly stagger you.  That is no longer the case.  It won't be long before reapers have phantoms and collectors have atlases.  Phantoms already now have vacuum hands like the Banshees.  Few of the weapons feel like they are capable of being a threat.  Some even sound like the toy guns their performance pans out to be.  Weapons and powers are woefully inaccurate even when you are FIRING THEM POINT BLANK AT ENEMIES.  And yet the enemies never miss even when they tumble, roll, take cover, flip, or while on a ladder with all their limbs busy on a rung so no free limbs whatsoever to fire a weapon or a power yet they still do.  The game breaks their own physics and laws for the enemy. Some of that might be ok but this goes a bit beyond just a little.  Is it so difficult to create challenge with out breaking your own rules and lore?  It kind of pushes you out of the immersion too much.  You start to wonder what else will go wrong, or does anything you do matter?  If cover, for example has absolutely no effect against weapons, powers, or enemies it should, then where does that leave you with regard to strategies?  
Too often an enemy defies all sense of logic, game rules, and realistic physics to get to you.  Their weapon rounds chase you through walls, around corners, and through cover or while you dodge and move yet still are somehow miraculously hit.  I have seen centurions shooting and hitting team mates and I while we were MOVING and as they came blindsided to them around corners in a way they would have no inkling as to where we were yet they hit us as if they are psychic.  Their power attacks follow you around zig zag turns and corners.  Banshees can not only teleport through solid walls but they can casually walk through them.  Phantoms can vacuum you into their grip even as you are flipping away and firing a shot gun.  Marauders have gatling guns that can fire 1000 rounds a minute plus and yet are still light enough to carry and never miss or rise up, yet we players and elite soldiers have no such gun and almost all rapid fire guns always ride up at least a little.  The list of bizarre logic and physics goes on.
I also agree there is little to no give or leeway on close calls or narrow margin issues such as trying to flip out a rocket as soon as you revive but it is not in time even if there are no enemies right over you or even attacking you when you rise.  Or if they do attack they attack while you are rising and you have not even gained control yet.  That is laughable.  Games are supposed to be fun first not overly hard for the sake of being hard.  I am ok with challenging or even hard, if there is balance, and consistency this game lacks in its controls, game rules/laws, and game physics.
It is an appealing game.  What is not appealing is constant game changes that make any issues it had before worse or more difficult to manage, and I do not mean a matter of game difficulty but how hard it is to get things working the way they are supposed to.  If it takes two shots of rockets to down one giant target right in front of you even if you aim right in front at the feet and the first one misses, something is not right.  If you only have 9 ops packs and 50 plus of every thing else and yet every time you use a ops pack there is only a 40% chance it will have any effect what so ever, something is wrong.  As I said earlier, the ops pack slot IMHO, for example, if it is going to continue to be so grossly unreliable of a gear item and yet take a slot and be so difficult to ever have enough of to be of use, then I would rather that button be used for something else like a 4th power.
There are lots of bugs and glitches that frequently change or get worse with every update or dlc.  I wonder if some of these bugs are not the result of so called increased challenge changes that add so many more enemies or enemy power attacks that it causes servers to lag or crash and several gamers to lose their games and gear.  It would be more appreciated if the challenge changes were more cerebral as opposed to a matter of pure button mashing.  And even if the game is not super hard, it would still get plenty of traffic if it is fun.  
Add some more teamwork benefits and bonuses.  
Add more team effective powers with the benefit of points for using them.  Say you buff a team mate and this allows him or her to shoot down a brute, then you should benefit with some points if he does it while that player is effected by your buff.  
Add a combat power challenge slot and some combat power bonus gear.  It feels like that entire slot is forgotten and it is supposed to be the default one of the main character Shepard.
Fix the bugs.
Fix the conflicting button commands like the X button, and this might be done by adding a HOLD BUTTON while you depress the X button for some of the many functions it has.
Balance powers,
Balance weapons
Balance enemies.
Add team work stacking combo explosions, like 4 players firing off compatible powers is twice as powerful as if only 2 players combined for a power attack.
Add team work support points and challenges, well add more.
Add some larger maps.
If possible have a mode where you have a series of maps in a sort of pseudo campaign.  Say play 3 waves at firebase London, then 3 at Firebase Vancouver, then 3 at fire base Rio.
Get rid of the enemies materialize out of thing air mechanic.  It looks odd for one, and for two it can create some super frustrating issues when enemies spawn right beside or on top of you out of no where.  Let them walk through doors, or off ramparts like in some spots at firebase Giant or Firebase reactor.  Just don't make them come out of thin air.  I mean do they have star trek teleport  pods?  Even then, I would expect to seem an energized plasma wave or something first.  Give them landing craft.  Reapers might have giant insect cocoon their units emerge from here and there.  How about trap doors in some maps?  Landing craft for enemies?  Doors they come out from?  Have a giant space craft fire cocoons at spots on the map or pods or small landing craft.
Challenge:  
Reapers should be the toughest, after all did they not defeat and subjugate the Collectors?Give their units extra armor over other factions or leave it as it is and subtract a bit of armor from the other factions.  Maybe have the swarmers do what the cannibals do only they take it from bodies and buff any near by unit's armor.  This would add a challenge with out adding numbers and extra hit points all the time.
Cerberus is supposed to have mobile shields and other sorts of coverage stations.  So give them some battlefield medic unit that buffs their shields and sets up shield pylons and adds another challenge and strategy option to players.
Collectors are affected by the possessed one, Harbinger.  Yet they have several possessed at once.  Get rid of that.  Instead, allow one unit but not the freaking swarmers because that unit makes no sense to be possessed, to be possessed.  It offers extra experience points if destroyed and costs more of the spawn count than other units, but it offers a bonus to aggression, melee attack, and a slight speed increase to any unit within 4 meters of the possessed unit, (5 meters in silver, 6 gold, and 7 platinum).  This way more units maybe affected and tough/challenging than just the total number of possessed units now showing up at once but with extra benefit over normal collector units, yet not in such a way that the other units under the influenced would be stronger than the one possessed.
Geth are supposed to be more dangerous if there are more than one.  So give them a benefit of fire rate and shield recharge rate when more than 2 are within 1 meter of each other.  The distance should be shorter than Collectors with a smaller benefit but it can also happen more, to more units and in more clusters.  This also matches like the above suggestions with the game lore established since ME1.  By the same token, if overload or damping or hacking or sabotage is used around such clustered units it has a more devastating effect on them.  Therefore it is both a strength and a weakness that can be exploited against or used by them against the players.

You can also do the sorts of things established with ME 1 to further differentiate the player characters and thereby offer a better balance.  

Soldiers give option for medium to heavy armor.  Vanguard up to medium armor.  The rest light armor.  

Soldiers get double the combat bonuses of the average character.

Vangards get half the combat bonus of soldiers and half of that of adepts, but more than the other classes within combat power and biotic power fields.  

Infiltrators get half the combat power of soliders and half of that of the engineers.  

Adepts get double the biotic power bonus of the average character.

Engineers get double the tech power bonuses of the average character.

Sentinels get half the biotic power bonus of adepts and half the tech power bonus of engineers. 

This was how ME1 was set up and could be a good basis to balance characters.  And add the armor trait to all characters.

The mixed characters could be those characters that were mixed in ME1, Nemisis class, Commando, Shock Trooper, Medic, and so on.  So all would be covered and no character would have to have a great change just some balance adjustments.  The mixed characters could be added to the mixed classes that are missing in the ME3 MP.

#258
Derp88

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@ Zero

Yeah thats cool. It's all about playing the game that you get the most enjoyment, otherwise what's the point?

I just think the scoreboard kinda detracts from the co-op multiplayer, and just encourages people to go all out-dps to try and top the scoreboard.

A good example is someone following a primer to set off explosions. The detonator won't get many points on the scoreboard, but is an invaluable member of the team. However, because of this lack of points, it puts people off doing this kind of role. I'm not saying everyone thinks this way, but quite a lot of players feel they need to get a high score to feel they've contributed to the team, which isn't always the case.

#259
Tybo

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Deerber wrote...

tyhw wrote...

I believe I've seen the numbers for setting off a FE on shields before, but I can't find them so I can't say 100% yes.  From in-game experience, though, I would definitely say that they do happen.


Uhm, I wasn't going to contradict Feneckus since I'm not sure, but since you mentioned this... I think I've seen incendiary ammo setting up FEs on shielded opponents sometimes. Am I confused, or can that happen?


I'm 99% certain that incendiary ammo can't set up FEs on shielded opponents.  I'm also fairly certain that incinerate and inferno grenades can.

#260
Deerber

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Xeraphas wrote...

bla bla bla bla



Holy **** man! China called... They want their ****ing wall back! :o

Modifié par Deerber, 11 janvier 2013 - 02:18 .


#261
Deerber

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tyhw wrote...

Deerber wrote...

tyhw wrote...

I believe I've seen the numbers for setting off a FE on shields before, but I can't find them so I can't say 100% yes.  From in-game experience, though, I would definitely say that they do happen.


Uhm, I wasn't going to contradict Feneckus since I'm not sure, but since you mentioned this... I think I've seen incendiary ammo setting up FEs on shielded opponents sometimes. Am I confused, or can that happen?


I'm 99% certain that incendiary ammo can't set up FEs on shielded opponents.  I'm also fairly certain that incinerate and inferno grenades can.


Oh I see. I may have been confused by incinerate and stuff, then. I'm also fairly certain, from in-game experience, that flamer can.

#262
Cyonan

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Deerber wrote...

tyhw wrote...

I believe I've seen the numbers for setting off a FE on shields before, but I can't find them so I can't say 100% yes.  From in-game experience, though, I would definitely say that they do happen.


Uhm, I wasn't going to contradict Feneckus since I'm not sure, but since you mentioned this... I think I've seen incendiary ammo setting up FEs on shielded opponents sometimes. Am I confused, or can that happen?


You'll get the DoT ticks showing up but it wont do damage. I tested earlier and it did look like Incinerate/Inferno Grenade was setting up proper FEs but I didn't have my memory debugging software running to accurately test.

Since I have it running(Somebody messaged me about Typhoon DR so I re-tested under different conditions from my original tests) right now I'll check it out.

Edit: Incendiary Rounds do not appear to able to cause FEs on shields.

Modifié par Cyonan, 11 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .


#263
Silvair

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HolyAvenger wrote...

The main problem is DPS trumps all. Lets make CC, survivability etc. more important...


...no medigelling.


This.

DPS should be a factor, not the all encompassing rule that trumps all other concepts.

Could maybe make larger maps with double the enemy spawns to encourage people to be more tactical, rather than run and gun, as well.

#264
Cyonan

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Silvair wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

The main problem is DPS trumps all. Lets make CC, survivability etc. more important...


...no medigelling.


This.

DPS should be a factor, not the all encompassing rule that trumps all other concepts.

Could maybe make larger maps with double the enemy spawns to encourage people to be more tactical, rather than run and gun, as well.


Consoles couldn't handle that many units at once.

Modifié par Cyonan, 11 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .


#265
capn233

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Cyonan wrote...

Consoles couldn't handle that many units at once.

The heart of the matter.

In reality, they should have probably created a combo system where it was impossible for a single character to prime and detonate their own combos, and then made combo damage the best way of dealing DPS.

Additionally, if there were objectives that actually required teamwork, that would help.  Ideally, there would have been real coop missions, not a horde mode where the only objective is to kill some amount of units in an unlimited amount of time for the majority of the game.

#266
SSuicideKKing666

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capn233 wrote...

In reality, they should have probably created a combo system where it was impossible for a single character to prime and detonate their own combos, and then made combo damage the best way of dealing DPS.


I disagree, all that would do is push more people away from casters.  Most of the playerbase would opt to be more effective alone then rely on only the potential for higher damage.  Yes real groups would use caster combos, but weapon classes would be the majority of played classes.

#267
Knockingbr4in

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Deerber wrote...

Aedolon wrote...

Beeno4Life wrote...

You seem to be missing one little tidbit; Cryo Blast is considered one of the worst--if not THE worst--powers in the game for the very reason that it does absolutely nothing that SF does, beside making mooksicles.


Considered by whom? There are a lot of people - like me - that consider it a perfectly solid power, even excellent depending on the other powers available to the kit in question.

This has been discussed recently.


Thanks for saving me the hassle of finding the thread. Cryo blast is a debuff. Snap freeze is not.


Snap Freeze also has debuff properties. Hence, it is not a debuff. Wait..

#268
CitizenThom

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The game's biggest failure is that they had to use perpetual staggerlock to create false difficulty.

#269
SSuicideKKing666

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CitizenThom wrote...

The game's biggest failure is that they had to use perpetual staggerlock to create false difficulty.


I wouldn't call those faulse difficulty, its just frustrating.  I'd be alright with stuns and staggers if they got rid of synckills.  Synckills are a false difficulty, especially because of the damn lag-bug issues, hate teleporting and invisible instakills.

#270
HolyAvenger

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SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

capn233 wrote...

In reality, they should have probably created a combo system where it was impossible for a single character to prime and detonate their own combos, and then made combo damage the best way of dealing DPS.


I disagree, all that would do is push more people away from casters.  Most of the playerbase would opt to be more effective alone then rely on only the potential for higher damage.  Yes real groups would use caster combos, but weapon classes would be the majority of played classes.



I already proposed some ideas for incorporating weapon damage into combos i.e. soldiers can't boost their own weapon damage, but biotics can.

BioWare just have to get creative about how weapons, powers and kits interact.






...also, no medigelling. Image IPB

#271
nicethugbert

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SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

The game needs better transparency of stats and effects, as it is now far too much of the game's important information can only be reliably found outside of the game itself.


THIS!  So this.

But, even outside the game, information is hard to come by and requires some tech saint to sleuth it all out.  I don't understand why the gaming industry insists on such low product quality standards.

#272
nicethugbert

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SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

The game's biggest failure is that they had to use perpetual staggerlock to create false difficulty.


I wouldn't call those faulse difficulty, its just frustrating.  I'd be alright with stuns and staggers if they got rid of synckills.  Synckills are a false difficulty, especially because of the damn lag-bug issues, hate teleporting and invisible instakills.


I'm not opposed to one hit kills so much as their uninteruptability.  This game has severe animation issues.  Enemies are immune to status effects during certain animations such as reloading which makes no sense at all.  I don't mind if enemies have a defense against various status effects or interupts but it has to be discrete not something mundane such as reloading.

#273
GallowsPole

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Power trees, IMO, are setup fine between biotics, tech or weapons classes. Problem is, is that tech and biotic base damage never changes. Weapon bonus is so varied. Add 20% bonus to a Predator vs. a Typhoon vs. a BW and you see my point? Sometimes apparently I'm not clear enough. This is also depending on how you even spec the kit.

#274
Airealite

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Feneckus, try saying something positive for a change. After all the complaining I've seen you do, it's a wonder you still even play this game.

#275
SavagelyEpic

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Xeraphas wrote...

-snip-

Soldiers give option for medium to heavy armor.  Vanguard up to medium armor.  The rest light armor.  

Soldiers get double the combat bonuses of the average character.

Vangards get half the combat bonus of soldiers and half of that of adepts, but more than the other classes within combat power and biotic power fields.  

Infiltrators get half the combat power of soliders and half of that of the engineers.  

Adepts get double the biotic power bonus of the average character.

Engineers get double the tech power bonuses of the average character.

Sentinels get half the biotic power bonus of adepts and half the tech power bonus of engineers. 

This was how ME1 was set up and could be a good basis to balance characters.  And add the armor trait to all characters.

The mixed characters could be those characters that were mixed in ME1, Nemisis class, Commando, Shock Trooper, Medic, and so on.  So all would be covered and no character would have to have a great change just some balance adjustments.  The mixed characters could be added to the mixed classes that are missing in the ME3 MP.



Yes.