300 réponses à ce sujet

[Fortack]

Deerber wrote...
Uh? I agree with what you guys said, but ME1 and 2 at insanity were not that hard at all 

That isn't the point. The thing is that selecting the proper squadmates in ME2 did make a huge difference. You could easily complete a mission twice as fast if you had some sort of a plan. In ME3 it is more or less irrelevant what squad is being used b/c it has (close to) zero impact on how well the team will perform. That means you don't have to work together in ME3 to get the best results and that goes against the most basic rule concerning teamwork.

[TheThirdRace]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

[RoundedPlanet88]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Hehe I'm sorry. Using the store as an argument is just ludicrous when a lot of us can play just fine with the weapons we got.

I can play just fine with an Avenger I. But that doesn't mean I don't want to unlock a PPR X or a Black Widow X.

Avenger 1? thought you prefered the shuriken 1, or the predator 1. Maybe even the mantis 1?

[palmof40sorrows]

I don't quite see how almost all of those problems are caused by being in a lobby with random people you don't know and then NOT changing your class to something that works better, and others not doing the same. To wit, in a cooperative game, a lack of communication is going to lead to suboptimal synergistic results. SHOCKING I TELL YOU!

[palmof40sorrows]

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

That would be ideal but sounds impossible to implement. Also, it boils down to a foot stomp and a "i don't want to compromise OR communicate with teammates that I don't know at all." Or, "wahhhh" as some are wont to put it.

[CrutchCricket]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
I can play just fine with an Avenger I. But that doesn't mean I don't want to unlock a PPR X or a Black Widow X.

lol true story. I can personally attest that in this case, "just fine" means putting the rest of our scores to shame.

[Lathlaer]

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

Because that is how small squad combat works Allies who are not well synergized with others tend to be more of a hindrance than assets.

[HolyAvenger]

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

I disagree. The game should reward synergy and punish the lack thereof.

[Deerber]

Fortack wrote...

Deerber wrote...
Uh? I agree with what you guys said, but ME1 and 2 at insanity were not that hard at all 

That isn't the point. The thing is that selecting the proper squadmates in ME2 did make a huge difference. You could easily complete a mission twice as fast if you had some sort of a plan. In ME3 it is more or less irrelevant what squad is being used b/c it has (close to) zero impact on how well the team will perform. That means you don't have to work together in ME3 to get the best results and that goes against the most basic rule concerning teamwork.

I know, and I completely, wholeheartedly agree. That's one of the things I truly missed from the previous games in ME3. Especially ME2 had that, much more than ME1 even.

I just wanted to say that they were not that hard because the guy mentioned something like Brass Balls to do ME1 on insanity and that just wasn't the case for me 

[whateverman7]

Gylukios wrote...

This.

People who play with full squads of friends have a game experience that is necessarily irregular, the baseline "average" game being one with 3 random teammates. A full squad of friends can usually tear through anything on this game with little effort. Four randoms have a far more difficult time due to the problems Feneckus mentioned.

Trying to communicate with randoms usually ends in a failure, they either aren't listening, won't change their setup, or think you're lying, especially when trying to explain complicated mechanics like power detonation priority. You might as well be speaking in tongues to most randoms, and most will never believe that you know something they don't about the game you're both playing, people are arrogant that way. There's also no way to hang a sign up on your profile exclaiming "I know what I am doing, listen to me!"

The end result is a self-fuffiling prophecy wherein every PUG player must assume for their own well-being that the three other players have no idea what they are doing, and leads to everyone going for classes/strategies that are independant of other classes/strategies and lone wolfing it rather than picking a power/team synergy class and risk their time/consumables on the possibility that their teammates will screw up.

something that goes along with this are the challenges...the challenges are individual based and when people want to finish certain ones, that tends to take precident over team synergy...i'm guilty of it myself when it comes to using weapons...i've played games where it wouldve gone better/faster if i had used other weapons, but i was set on getting that particular weapon challenge done...so it took longer than usual....when i play with friends, they understand what's going on and arent too pissed about it...when i play with unknowns, i feel bad sometimes...i make up for it by doing my best to make sure we extract....anyway, i wish they wouldve included some team based challenges...like a full extraction challenge called 'leave no man behind'

[RoundedPlanet88]

HolyAvenger wrote...

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

I disagree. The game should reward synergy and punish the lack thereof.

His point is that him not synergizing with his teammates does not hurt him, it hurts them. I tactually HELPS him.

[dysomnium]

Remember in Mass Effect 1, you could see your party's strengths and weaknesses before accepting and setting out for a mission? What if something like that were implemented to entice people to play with more compatible characters?

You struck a chord with me when you mentioned missing Javelin headshots on Phantoms. I've recently become a Javelin addict, and am working on the quick-scope timing and aim, and there are games I want to... say mean things because my teammates are the reason I can't kill the Phantom about to penetrate someone's pride.

[HolyAvenger]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

I disagree. The game should reward synergy and punish the lack thereof.

His point is that him not synergizing with his teammates does not hurt him, it hurts them. I tactually HELPS him.

I meant it should penalise the team overall, and does.

I have no issue with removing screenshake and wubwubwub. That's just stupid.

[GordianKnot42]

And yet, here we all are almost a year later, still playing. 

[Lathlaer]

HolyAvenger wrote...

TheThirdRace wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I get your point but some of this can be solved in the lobby by making sure teams have good synergy and complimentary powers.

That's my freaking problem with this game. You should be able to play whatever character you want without worrying about penalizing your teammates. It's fine if I don't synergize with them, but why the hell would I penalize them because my powers compete with theirs?

I disagree. The game should reward synergy and punish the lack thereof.

+1 HolyAvenger

You have to synergize tactics when you fight (for example, spawns, rocket usage). You can afford not doing this but it will cost you some effort and/or consumables. But you absolutely must cooperate when doing objectives. Otherwise when I'm running to do a hack and someone kills a pyro, this pyro might as well respawn close to me, preventing me to finish objectives.

When the game requires synergy in those points, why shouldn't it require synergy when it comes to choosing powers?

All kits synergizing well with each other no matter what? Not only boring but highly unrealistic when it comes to represent tactical fights. Yes, I do realize the game isn't that realistic in this department, but it doesn't mean it should go further.

[RoundedPlanet88]

HolyAvenger wrote...


I meant it should penalise the team overall, and does.

I have no issue with removing screenshake and wubwubwub. That's just stupid.

Ahhh ok, watch your semantics, some of actually READ what others post, and don`t just jump to assumptions, I tsounded like you were pointing out that it penalized him exsclusivly

[Fawx9]

GallowsPole wrote...

No one is saying someone's kit should be minimally effective. Just that the chief aspect of this MP is co-op. If you're readying up in a lobby with other kits you know are going to make yours ineffective, then speak up or move along. You're making the choice to cause yourself grief.

And how is the average PUG supposed to know any of this?

The only reason I know most of the crap I do about MP classes is because I come here. And I learned to do that from playing games like WoW/D2/D3 where you quickly figure out that the tooltips don't do any game like this the justice it deserves when trying to figure out skills.

I would bet my entire manifest that half or more of the players in silver and bronze  and a good portion in gold have no idea that they are hurting people when using ammo types or spamming certain abilites that override others.

Modifié par Fawx9, 10 janvier 2013 - 05:45 .

[GallowsPole]

That's why I said speak up! Educate instead of moaning about it. Most peeps will listen.

[Fortack]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

And yet, here we all are almost a year later, still playing. 

There's a difference between playing a game with friends for the lulz and working together as a team. I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't like the game, but I know I would like it a lot more if it did reward teamwork instead of fun, but rather mindless, slaughter.

[mo0nblade]

you maybe right when it comes to searching for random games but not when your playing with people you know like i do. if you actually work together not only does it work but its much more entertaining. i try to not play with people i dont know because your right, i am forced to run around as far from others as possible for fear of some dumb ass deciding to stand next to me playing as something that should be extremely obvious to anyone whos not a complete moron not to stand next to me with

[GallowsPole]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
I can play just fine with an Avenger I. But that doesn't mean I don't want to unlock a PPR X or a Black Widow X.

lol true story. I can personally attest that in this case, "just fine" means putting the rest of our scores to shame.

Noones preventing unlocking anything from the store. You just want it quicker is all.

[Uh Cold]

It's sad but you're right, at this point in the game it's safe to say BioWare really had no idea what they were getting into with the MP.

All we can do is bring it up and hope they take notes for ME4.

Modifié par Uh Cold, 10 janvier 2013 - 05:54 .

[GallowsPole]

No matter what BW does to change the game, or any dev for that matter, you can't change the player ego.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

GallowsPole wrote...

No matter what BW does to change the game, or any dev for that matter, you can't change the player ego.

If you force the team to cooperate like on L4D/L4D2 Versus, player ego would mean nothing. Like it should be.

[Fawx9]

GallowsPole wrote...

That's why I said speak up! Educate instead of moaning about it. Most peeps will listen.

Which is almost nearly impossible in PUGs.

No one wants to sit around and listen to someone critique their build at this kind of level. We aren't talking about somone on a soldier putting points in power damage and you commenting on it. We are talking about small but major efects that individual skills/ammos have even when they are evolved 'properlly'. Trying to explain that warp ammo does a but on the side actually does b and c while hurting me is just going to confuse everyone when they just want to play the match.

I agree that players should be compelled to synergize, but the that should be at a class or build level. Skill/ammo use should never penalize but simply boost. It makes no sense to penalize players at that level or else you run into what we have today with people accidently/unknowingly screwing over the team simply for playing the game in a way that makes sense until you look under the hood with a high powered flashlight.