142 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

Darth Krytie wrote...

Urzon wrote...

I'll have to disagree with you. Being able to respec, unlimitly, doesn't kill character character builds, and it doesn't stop people from putting just as much thought into them. It allows players to try different specs until they find one they are most comfortable with. If anything, it allows players to refine and and give even deeper thoughts into their character build.

I would also like to add, that it can give a character's story more depth as well. One of my Hawkes was a healer all throughout Act1, but after the Deep Roads disaster; he found his healing lacking compared to Ander's. Even more so after the battle with the Rock Wraith, where Carver almost lost his life the first time. So in Act2, he devoted alot of his time to the study of force magic. In Act3, after all the emotional turmoil of his mother's death, he turned to blood magic. He vowed to protect all those who were close to him, even at the cost of himself.

I wouldn't have been able to do that storyline without the ability to respec multiple times.

I am getting an undeniable urge to play again because this is a really awesome thought. Is 12 playthroughs enough? I guess not.

nicely thought out, but how do you explain your characters "forgetting" how to heal? how to force-mage something etc.?

as for playing DA:2 twelve times - yes, way to much for such a bad game (i never managed it to the end once, because after the WTF-Blood-Mage-First-Enchanter encounter (with a pro-mage apostate character that was with Merril) i went ballistic...only played the game again to play mark of the assassin (which i regret) and the other DLC which was good (not great, but enjoyable non the less))

greetings LAX
ps: do not limit respecc that's diablo-II (also i loved that game) like backwards! (and even that game has respecc by now!!!)

[Dabrikishaw]

addiction21 wrote...

How does what someone else does in their own singleplayer game effect you at all?

And why are you moaning about what other people could possibly do that would never affect you in any way?

[Biotic Sage]

A long as there is a cost to respec, then one should be allowed to respec as many times as he wishes. The cost should not be too significant, but neither should it be negligible. It's still nice to have a sense of permanence, a sense of: "This is the path I have chosen and now I get to reap the benefits of committing to this path." That's one of the ultimate satisfactions of games that allow you to build your character. Diablo 3 was a major disappointment in this area since Blizzard just lets you change all of your skills whenever you want without any cost whatsoever; it feels way too much like a COD loadout, and not enough like MY character that I have crafted over 60+ levels. The items have a nice variety of attributes though, so I wish DA3 would take a page out of their book there, since changing weapons/armor are essentially a way of respeccing.

[Wulfram]

(Since it's quoted a lot, I'll respond to this)

addiction21 wrote...

How does what someone else does in their own singleplayer game effect you at all?

And why are you moaning about what other people could possibly do that would never affect you in any way?

The problem with this logic is that it's basically saying that balance doesn't matter in Single Player games.  Which I think is a horrible design philosophy.

If they added a talent that allowed a character to kill any enemy instantly, am I allowed to say that I think this is poorly balanced, or does the fact that it's optional mean I should just shut up?

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 janvier 2013 - 11:58 .

[Captain Crash]

I dislike respec, but thats my choice. However its something I think should always be included and not limited.

Repeating whats been said but I would like the option to still be available. Usually its just a case of bad descriptions or bugged abilities that don't do what they say. Or I started playing as an archer and its not as fun as I expected. In those situations I will respec.

Skyrim's "Silence" ability is a good example. The description made it out to be something I thought was more then it was. In fact I could use the spell muffle to greater effect. So when the Respec option came in Dragonborn I instantly used it. I don't often use it, but Im sure glad its there!

Modifié par Captain Crash, 12 janvier 2013 - 12:06 .

[In Exile]

[quote]Biotic Sage wrote...
"This is the path I have chosen and now I get to reap the benefits of committing to this path." That's one of the ultimate satisfactions of games that allow you to build your character.]/quote]

How about the ultimate satisfaction of, oh, this effect is bugged, I should have realized this other ability was better but I didn't pick it.

[Noviere]

addiction21 wrote...

How does what someone else does in their own singleplayer game effect you at all?

And why are you moaning about what other people could possibly do that would never affect you in any way?

Pretty much this.

I've never even considered respeccing for each encounter... But the idea that respecs should be limited so people can't is just... Silly, to put it mildly.

It reminds me of the TES forums -- prior to release there was a thread begging the developers to disable the console on the PC because the poster would be unable to stop himself from cheating if the option was there.

If you can't stop yourself from cheesing your way through the game, that's your problem. If you just don't want other people to do so... well, you need to get a life and stop worrying what people do in a single player game.

[tishyw]

addiction21 wrote...

How does what someone else does in their own singleplayer game effect you at all?

And why are you moaning about what other people could possibly do that would never affect you in any way?

This statement pretty much covers it I think.  If you don't want to use respec potions that's fine, but don't deny others the opportunity to play the way they want.

[Lennard Testarossa]

I think every enemy should drop ultra-weapons that can kill anything with one strike. Also, there should be a dialogue option for all npcs which makes them strip for you. Having the option to have sex with my mabari would be nice too.

People that don't want this should really get a life and stop worrying what people do in a singler player game. More options are always good.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Filament wrote...
Maybe the logic implies that but in this context I don't think it's really relevant. Respeccing is balance neutral.

Nonsense. Some abilities might be useful early on, but useless later on. Some attributes might be useful early on, but useless later on. With respecc, there is no need to consider this. You can just pick what works best at any given level and discard it once it ceases being useful.

Modifié par Lennard Testarossa, 12 janvier 2013 - 01:01 .

[OdanUrr]

Celene II wrote...

And a lot of people will abuse unlimited respec by creating a damage mage for this section then a healer for this cave, then a crowd control mage for this cave. Destroying any sort of replay.

Let them. If it makes them happy, why spoil their fun?

Celene II wrote...

So i implore you -  If you have a maker's sigh potion or anything like it either make only 2 of them or only have enough material to craft two of them. Anything more really takes all thought and skill in character building out of the game.

Different people play games differently. One should never purposefully restrict a player's ability to play the game the way they see fit. If you want, make it so that the potion costs more the more you use it but don't remove it entirely just because some people want a challenge (you can easily set your own challenges and simply not buy more than two potions). It's a similar thinking that led to our not being able to equip our companions with different armors in DA2.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 12 janvier 2013 - 01:12 .

[Plato]

Celene II wrote...

And a lot of people will abuse unlimited respec by creating a damage mage for this section then a healer for this cave, then a crowd control mage for this cave. Destroying any sort of replay.

I really fail to see how my respeccing, my character, in my single player game can be anybody's buisiness but my own?

As has already been stated. The gold could potentially have been used to buy a new weapon or some health potions, if i choose to spend it on a respec potion.. well then what does it matter to you?

[Lennard Testarossa]

Filament wrote...
I really have nothing to say to that except the next sentence of my post that you snipped out.

It has no relation to what I said. Abilities and attributes being useful at different stages in the game does not mean they're imbalanced.

[Conduit0]

Wulfram wrote...

(Since it's quoted a lot, I'll respond to this)

addiction21 wrote...

How does what someone else does in their own singleplayer game effect you at all?

And why are you moaning about what other people could possibly do that would never affect you in any way?

The problem with this logic is that it's basically saying that balance doesn't matter in Single Player games.  Which I think is a horrible design philosophy.

If they added a talent that allowed a character to kill any enemy instantly, am I allowed to say that I think this is poorly balanced, or does the fact that it's optional mean I should just shut up?

Being able to respec and having an instant death spell are two completely different things. If you want to claim that being able to respec destroys game balance, than you also have to claim that all forms of meta-gaming destroy game balance. Because being able to research optimal builds ahead of time outside the game through forums and wikis is just as imbalanced as being able to respec. Ofcourse the most ergregious balance breaker of them all is the save feature, the ability to save and reload at any time just throws game balance and difficulty right out the window.

[Wompoo]

Never going to happen, you are looking at a post WoW player base or those feed on the system... die hard mini/maxers would also be bent out of shape. Personally I think the addition of it points to poor skill availability/choice and even poorer balance, either way I don't think DA2 had very much going for it with the skill trees it had, far to limited for my tastes and removed my desire to replay the game using different or more unusual builds.

[Urzon]

DarthLaxian wrote...

nicely thought out, but how do you explain your characters "forgetting" how to heal? how to force-mage something etc.?

Headcanon wise, he never forgot any of his creation spells. Him switching to a force mage in between Act 1&2, gameplay wise, took the form of moving most of the points put into creation, into the force spell tree. I only left points in Heal, to show he still had his healing abilities.

As for how he was able to study force magic, with the money he got from the Deep Roads, he asked Varric keep an eye out for any books on the subject with his many connections. Varric was able to find a Lucrosian mage willing to copy spellbooks and smuggle them out, for the right price of course. Other than that, it was self-study and trial and error*.

*: Many flower vases and pots were harmed in the making of this character.

Modifié par Urzon, 12 janvier 2013 - 07:35 .

[Manic Sheep]

What happens if I want to experiment a little with different play styles before I settle on one? And why do you care if others exploit it in a single player game?

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 12 janvier 2013 - 08:31 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

With proper design, respec is not necessary.

As long as a class/skills is horribly broken, there is no need for it. Only compulsive min-maxers would re-sepc in that case anyway.

[Conduit0]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

With proper design, respec is not necessary.

As long as a class/skills is horribly broken, there is no need for it. Only compulsive min-maxers would re-sepc in that case anyway.

I could point out numerous flaws in that arguement, but I'm tired, so I'll just point out something that you completely missed.
There is multiple playstyles available to each class, so what happens if you choose a particular spec and then decide you don't care for the playstyle? Just as an example, so you go sword and shield warrior, but then later decide you really don't care for it. Without a way to respec, you're just plain screwed, which is not an acceptable outcome, especially when you have no way of knowing in advance which playstyles will suit you and no way to preview them to find out.

[ShaggyWolf]

I think I used 4 respec potions on my last bow rogue playthrough, experimenting with different things until I got my build into a state that I considered ideal. And that was just for Hawke. I wasn't using a build guide or something, because I like figuring things out myself.

So in short, I hate the OP's idea.

If mobile respecs in the middle of a dungeon is really considered such a problem, simply make the respec feature be tied to an item or character that you can only make use of at the PC's "home" area, instead of tying it to an item the PC can take and use anywhere. Like a mirror of transformation except for respecs. But still allow the feature to be unlimited. That's the only suggestion I'll offer beyond "don't screw with it."