178 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

nightscrawl wrote...

Like THIS?! I keep my bags and bank organized in this way for WoW, and I had never thought of it in terms of tetris before, but that's actually a good comparison!

It's not a very fun game of Tetris if every block that drops is the square. 

You can't really tell there, but I tend to group like things together within the same bag, so that I end up with L, I, and square (2 rows of 2) shapes as well, which is why there are the odd empty spaces in some bags.

[nicethugbert]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

To put this as bluntly as possible, Bioware already have a pretty good idea in mind for the game. At this point, what you "want" doesn't matter so much. If what the game has is what you "want", then good for you. If it doesn't? There are other games out there to accommodate you.

If you want to add suggestions, there's a thread blatantly for that, stickied at the top of the page.

Topics like this just sound like entitled whining to me, I'm sorry to say. And the "customised difficulty settings" that you're suggesting -- most of them just aren't possible to do the way you want. And that's a fact, whether you like that answer or not.

I should add, I'm not saying this to ****** anybody off, and I'm not just being negative to be negative. I'm trying to put this as plainly and evenly as possible.

I appreciate plain and even speech.  But, I also appreciate being factual.  There is nothing impossible, or complicated, or difficult at all about what I'm suggesting.  Any programmer who makes a big deal about what I am about to suggest should have his Computer Science degree revoked. 

It's all actually very simple.  All the ingredients are already in the game.  The only thing required are a few sliders and check boxes.  The mechanism behind the sliders and check boxes is child's play.  One of the Bioware devs posted that he wanted to
create a more detailed difficulty setting.  But what he had in mind is
a lot more involved than what I am suggesting.

The small effort used to produce this nets huge profits in customer satisfaction which is a hell of a lot more important than Biowares' "pretty good idea" or your attempt to be their spokesman.

1)  Wealth:  One slider that adjusts how much merchants pay for items as a percent of the item's price.  Ranges from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.

2)   XP:  Simple like the Wealth slider, a multipler from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.

3)  Horde Size:  Another simple slider, a multipler from 20% to 500% in 20% increments.

4)  Horde Strength:  Yet Another Simple Slider, I think I see a pattern here, an HP, resistance, armor, and attribute multiplier ranging from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.  Sure, you could make this into a set of sliders, one for each parameter, but, a simple one works well too.

5)  Friendly Fire:  Check Box, OMG SO DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT

6)  Critical Hits on Player:  Yet Another Check Box, oops I broke the budget.

[nicethugbert]

deatharmonic wrote...

The inventory system has already been slimmed down, I'd rather not see it diminish further. As for the all the customization, attaining money and xp is part of the fun, if I wanted to manipulate that in anyway I'd cheat. I do think friendly fire should be an option on every difficulty level. The others seem somewhat trivial.

I didn't suggest any changes to the inventory system.  I suggested changes to the difficulty system so I can enjoy the game my way, not yours.

Who says that attaining money and XP is part of the fun?  For you maybe, but, there is more to a game than accquisition and why should I have ot tolerate logistical nightmares in order to enjoy the fun parts of the game?  Why should I have to cheat to have fun my way?  The answer of course is that I shouldn't have to.  And you shouldn't worry about it because it does not effect you.

[nicethugbert]

AlexJK wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

So, in closing, games need a custom difficulty mode where a player can set the Wealth Level, XP Level, Encounter Size, Encounter Strength, Friendly Fire, Critical Hits and Such..  It's not complicated.

This already exists; it's called buying different games. No single game needs to be so customisable.

Oh good.  I'll buy a bunch of games.  Put them in the blender.  Put the mix in the oven and bake myself the game I want as I want.  Thx, my quest is over.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:27 .

[Dysjong]

Manegin your items is part of what i consider RPG. Im used to it from table-top.

I miss the weight system and interactble items, that might start somekind of dialog. Best example i come with is planescape torment.

[In Exile]

nicethugbert wrote...
I appreciate plain and even speech.  But, I also appreciate being factual.  There is nothing impossible, or complicated, or difficult at all about what I'm suggesting.

Yes, there is. You're asking for completely different games.

It's all actually very simple.  All the ingredients are already in the game.

That's like puting a bunch of meats and vegetables on the table and saying you have steak, lasagna and pizza. You still have to cook them.

The mechanism behind the sliders and check boxes is child's play.  One of the Bioware devs posted that he wanted to create a more detailed difficulty setting.  But what he had in mind is a lot more involved than what I am suggesting.

Every single programmer in the world is screaming out in pain now.

1)  Wealth:  One slider that adjusts how much merchants pay for items as a percent of the item's price.  Ranges from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.

That assumes that there a single "thing" that determines how much each merchant pays, and that this won't bug the price of items.

2)   XP:  Simple like the Wealth slider, a multipler from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.

Level scaling. You can actually make the game impossible because you devalue the strength of your loot. That has to be proportional to what you're doing. This has to be balanced. There has to be QA.

3)  Horde Size:  Another simple slider, a multipler from 20% to 500% in 20% increments.

What does 20% mean? Is that an extra 2/3rds of a hurlock? An extra Ogre? Does it mean that Bioware just keeps adding assasins with max health?

Edit:

Encounters are done by hand and balanced. Bioware would have to design an entire random encounter mechanism. script it, make sure that the right enemy loads, make sure that the areas can handle the number of enemies, make sure that the engine can display that number of enemies ...

4)  Horde Strength:  Yet Another Simple Slider, I think I see a pattern here, an HP, resistance, armor, and attribute multiplier ranging from 10% to 500% in 10% increments.  Sure, you could make this into a set of sliders, one for each parameter, but, a simple one works well too.

Again - balance. That has to be tested to make sure the game isn't unplayable.

5)  Friendly Fire:  Check Box, OMG SO DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT

Very, because the whole game is designed around it. Take one of the archer abilities in DA2 - it grants obscure status as one of the upgrades. But that upgrade is meaningless in nigthmare, because (prior to patch 1.04) a single use of the ability would be a 1-hit KO.

6)  Critical Hits on Player:  Yet Another Check Box, oops I broke the budget.

You did, because now QA is doing 6 times the work to make sure you didn't break the game by allowing the player to switch the code around like a blender.

Maybe the game freaks out when you have XP at 500 percent because you hit the level cap. Maybe the engine freaks out if you hit the level cap. Who knows? You have to test it and see.

Maybe a quest is bugged if you can't get more XP. Maybe increasing horde size slows down the engine. Who knows? You have to test everything, even if it would be simple to do.

Modifié par In Exile, 11 janvier 2013 - 05:00 .

[Xewaka]

Corker wrote...
I assume that's because endless jogging is boring. So we get these attention grabbers at regular intervals.  But you can't put good items in every loot drop because it would put too many resources into the game. So it's mostly junk.  If you remove the junk, then you just get a string of combats with the occasional RP encounter thrown in, which might also be monotonous.
tl;dr: I don't like junk either, but I suspect we'd complain that the boards were boring and unvaried without it.

I like the solution The Bard's Tale (2004) went for: Junk loot is automatically converted to cash upon pickup. Keeps the small attention grabbers available but reduces inventory clutter.

[nicethugbert]

Aldandil wrote...

The OP didn't really connect her/his post to the name of the thread, but in response to the post: I don't think it's feasible to have the level of customizability asked for in a game. All of the OP's 6 areas are areas where I think you'd get the best result if the devs decided on one solution and tried to implement it as well as possible, rather than a "one size fits all"-solution or having tons of sliders and options.

The connection is implied.  Clearly, difficulty settings are all pervasive in a game.  RPG games are multifaceted games.

I addressed in another post how stupendously simple this level of customization is.

No, one solution does not work because I have my own tastes and so does everyone else.  And, tastes change.  I don't want someone's opinion getting in the way of my fun.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:09 .

[nicethugbert]

JimboGee wrote...

So lets see.. you want a challenge but dont like having to work out how to beat that challenge ?....COD >>>>>> Over there son. Seriously this post is everything that is wrong with new RPG players.

I never said anything about challenge.  I said I want to customize the game to my satisfaction through the difficulty settings and suggested simple and effective ways to do that.

Incidentally, I don't play RPGs.   I play computer games.  Genre be damned, my fun knows none of it.

[nicethugbert]

Tigerman123 wrote...

You want the AWSOME inventory then?

I want to do whatever the **** I want.  You got a problem with that?

[nicethugbert]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

So you want "Customization: The Game"? Go buy Gary's Mod.

And in relation to the title, I can think of nothing nicer than setting aside a good 10-20 minutes to compare gear and re-equip my party; perhaps do some respeccing. That **** is fun.

No, I want to salvage an otherwise good game from your drudgery.

[nicethugbert]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

No, DA2 was bad enough.

Actually, it wasn't good enough.

[MaggieSh]

I love how you just ignored the post that explained why your request is unreasonable. XD

[n7stormrunner]

not to be rude but what inventory tetris? are you confusing the dragon age with something else, da has fairly simple lists and purely trash items are only in junk.and I seem to remember a sell all junk button and a junk button... I didn't use the latter though but I'm sure it's there... the rest yeah read above in exile seems to have explained it nice

Modifié par n7stormrunner, 11 janvier 2013 - 06:30 .

[daft inquisitor]

MaggieSh wrote...

I love how you just ignored the post that explained why your request is unreasonable. XD

^^^

Actually, I don't think he got around to it yet. It took him a few hours to reply to posts from the first page...

[nicethugbert]

Sidney wrote...

Inventory management sucks in every game there no doubt. It really sucks in the old XCOM style where you actually are playing tetris on the paperdoll.

Problem is people for some insane reason think that picking up trash off the ground IS part of a role playing game. I mean nothing feels more heroic than rifling a dead guard's pockets for a copper or stripping the boots off a disembowled darkspawn. And then once that fun is over you get the even bigger fun of selling that trash for measger amounts back in town....wow!

I'd much rather skip all the vendor trash and have dead things have cash so I can skip the annoying convert trash to money step we all take plus all the stupid inventory management that comes with it.

LOL, THIS!  You never know when some lowly Public Works employee is going to save the world and become the god of waste management in the process.  Waste Management is where the true power of the universe lays in wait to clean up the forces of entropy and give them a dose of their own medicine.

I'd rather skip the vendor trash too and like wulfram go the next step and forget the cash too.  One of the things I hate about loot systems is animals and beasts and stupid monsters dropping anything but their corpses.  Dumb critters' corpses should be good for food and crafting and trade, that's it!  It's like all animals of the world have an urge to eat Teh Shiny.

Really, how do these vendors walk around carrying WMD and the fortunes we give them and no one touches them.  If the Arch Demons and Reapers had any brains, they'd just quietly make the merchants disappear and the world would be powerless to stop them.

Powerful items should be part of the story just like building the Atom Bomb was part of World War 2.  Wade's role in Origins and Awakening is a good way to go.  Also in ME2, your crew mates could contribute to upgrading the Normandy.  Those methods could be expanded to put more game into them and to put more story into the game.

But, in any case, regardless of whatever item or economy system.  I want control over my game.  The suggestions I made are incredibly simple and effective ways to minimize the parts of the game you don't care for and maximize the ones you do care for.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 06:38 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Inventory tetris requires less work from the player, not more. Measure it. See how long it takes you to arrange your inventory in a game with tetris, and then compare that to all of the times you have to brwose through your list inventory to find things in games with lists.

List inventories are less efficient.

Measure it.

Tetris inventories are less efficient if the player doesn't bother managing them, but that's the player's fault. If the player takes a few minutes to sort things early on, the system becomes much less labour-intensive to use.

Measure it.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 janvier 2013 - 06:26 .

[nicethugbert]

nightscrawl wrote...

Like THIS?! I keep my bags and bank organized in this way for WoW, and I had never thought of it in terms of tetris before, but that's actually a good comparison!

Looks like a prison to me.  I want a jail break!

nightscrawl wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I don't want to play Quarter Master.  I don't want logistical nightmares.

I don't mind having items.  I just don't want to spend half my game inside my character's pants and on the innernets looking up how the game actually works, and stats and recipies.  I don't want to "have" to make 50000 Worry Runes or Vile ****** potions to sell then kit out my team in full splendor.

To be fair, neither of the DA games were really like what you portray. Granted, in DAO and DAA with the various health, mana, stamina, buff, and resistance pots your list could grow rather lengthy in your potion tab, but if anything, those were dramatically streamlined in DA2. I don't really see them going in the direction you dread.

Regardless of whatever direction BW chooses, I want to go my own direction.  I can do that with what I am suggesting and so can everybody else and it would be child's play for BW to implement.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 06:37 .

[nicethugbert]

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Inventory management, encumbrance, and crafting are 3 things which - for me personally - bog a lot of games down.

Where's the adventure in all that? I'm not saying we don't need some way of restriction on what we can carry/do, but micro-management is annoying at best and game-breaking at worst IMO.

I agree.  It has some charm at first but as the game progresses it becomes a chore.  I want a way to allow me to focus the game on what I want and not be stuck having to take seriously some boring mechanism all through out the game.

[nicethugbert]

Sidney wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Sidney wrote...

I'd much rather skip all the vendor trash and have dead things have cash so I can skip the annoying convert trash to money step we all take plus all the stupid inventory management that comes with it.

Personally I'd go further and scrap cash too

I would too but the caterwauling would be too epic. Money and the whole economy of RPG's is broken in general. No one can explain why you can buy most of the best stuff in Thedas in stores and why adventurers wouldn't be better off robbing Wonder of Thedas than risking their lives in the Roads.

LOL, it's the ending's fault.  The ending ruined everything!

[nicethugbert]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...

Well I think it is important to mention that when looting an enemy that has more than one item on them a menu actually pulls up telling you what they have on them so you can choose whether or not to take their junk. I usually do because it may not be worth much but still I can get some money out of it. At the end of my mos recent DA2 playthrough I still had over 200 gold.

Although I will agree that junk can get annoying at times. Such as looting ever barrel to find some treasure or something but you find junk instead. But overall this one of the things that if its in DA3 I can let it slide as there are a lot of other things that need to be fixed and to me this is a low priority.

True, but that's besides the point.  I want to play my way and you want to play your way.  I shouldn't be stuck playing your way any more than you should be stuck playing my way.  And, it's easy to fix.  So, i should get done.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:16 .

[nicethugbert]

Alias Oddvar wrote...

they could do away with pure junk items. That way our inventories would not fill up so fast.
Also has the bonus of limiting gold.

But that does not help people who want more gold, or less than what you want.  It does not helppeople who think the encounters are too small or too boss like.  Or want to turn off friendly fire so they can use half the spells because they like the spectacle without nuking the party all the time.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:15 .

[nicethugbert]

Femlob wrote...

Sounds like we'd better embrace Hepler's suggestion and add a button that removes all combat; why would I play the game if I can let the game play itself for me?

For that matter, why do I have to physically transport food to my mouth? It would be a much better idea if-

*headdesk*

Pay attention.  I'm asking for a way to make the game as difficult as you want.  If you want it easy enough for a zombie to play good for you.  I'm just glad to not have to play it your way but mine instead.

[Dysjong]

nicethugbert wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Inventory management, encumbrance, and crafting are 3 things which - for me personally - bog a lot of games down.

Where's the adventure in all that? I'm not saying we don't need some way of restriction on what we can carry/do, but micro-management is annoying at best and game-breaking at worst IMO.

I agree.  It has some charm at first but as the game progresses it becomes a chore.  I want a way to allow me to focus the game on what I want and not be stuck having to take seriously some boring mechanism all through out the game.

the adventure is that you need to think about how you prepare yourself for the trip towards the adventure. Apperantly you haven't tried PnP before where management of your inventory/backpack is importent. In D&D (3,5 edition) if you had too much load on you, you would become more slow, it would make it harder for you to climb, jump and swim and it would mark you as a target for people that saw there chances on getting some easy money. Even though D&D is fantasy, it stil has realism to it.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Tetris inventories are less efficient if the player doesn't bother managing them, but that's the player's fault. If the player takes a few minutes to sort things early on, the system becomes much less labour-intensive to use..

It's not fun. It isn't about the time invested - it's about how not fun it is.