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I don't want to play inventory tetris............


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#76
nicethugbert

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BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I want to be able to customize my game experience so I can enjoy the game.  Difficulty modes in BW games are dumbed down and don't accomodate player preferences well at all.  In order to enjoy a game a player needs control of:
1)  Wealth.  Some people just want to throw money at all problems, some want to spend hours milking bourbon out of a boulder.
2)  XP.  Some people want to set the world on fire in technicolor.  Others want to spork the world.
3)  Horde Size.  Some people want to see the bodies pile up and others just want to deal with Hag Mother and not her rug rats.
4)  Horde Strength/Composition.  Some want a world where most monsters are mooks and others only want to deal with the best, only the best!. 
5)  Friendly Fire.  Sometimes your party looks good when it's on fire, especially with today's graphics.
6)  Critical Hits and Such.  Some of us want to play by the same rules and some of us don't want to be bothered by pesky rules.

So, in closing, games need a custom difficulty mode where a player can set the Wealth Level, XP Level, Encounter Size, Encounter Strength, Friendly Fire, Critical Hits and Such..  It's not complicated.  There can still be predetermined difficulty settings so people can compare epeens.  But most of us don't care for that.


I don't think a single game in existence offers this. And if you can't enjoy a game without this then you've obviously never enjoyed a game.


I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.

#77
Steppenwolf

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nicethugbert wrote...

I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.


I have played the NWN games and they didn't offer the features you're demanding.

#78
Dysjong

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Darthlaxian -

Im used to management of my inventory, thanks to PnP rpg ;)

#79
nicethugbert

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MaggieSh wrote...

I love how you just ignored the post that explained why your request is unreasonable. XD


Take a number and get in line, mam.

Next!

#80
Dysjong

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BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.


I have played the NWN games and they didn't offer the features you're demanding.


that isnt correct. There is a big difference in NWN when it came to difficulty. There were easy, normal, D&D hardcore and something higher i believe. The difference from normal to D&D is big, friendly fire, critical hits had same effect on the player, if you failed your save against a pretify effect it was permanent instead of rounds.

what i don't get is how he can accept the inventory in NWN but complaining about it in dragon age.

#81
nicethugbert

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n7stormrunner wrote...

not to be rude but what inventory tetris? are you confusing the dragon age with something else, da has fairly simple lists and purely trash items are only in junk.and I seem to remember a sell all junk button and a junk button... I didn't use the latter though but I'm sure it's there... the rest yeah read above in exile seems to have explained it nice


There was the rest of my post, like 99% of it, that you totally ignored.  It had referances to crafting for cash and stuff.

#82
daft inquisitor

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Also, Thugbert, you don't have to reply to every single poster in the thread, especially one at a time. If you do, you're never going to get to the end of this thread.

The end, of course, us finally breaking through to you about how ludicrous your "suggestions" are.

#83
daft inquisitor

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Dysjong wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.


I have played the NWN games and they didn't offer the features you're demanding.


that isnt correct. There is a big difference in NWN when it came to difficulty. There were easy, normal, D&D hardcore and something higher i believe. The difference from normal to D&D is big, friendly fire, critical hits had same effect on the player, if you failed your save against a pretify effect it was permanent instead of rounds.

what i don't get is how he can accept the inventory in NWN but complaining about it in dragon age.

So... four varying degrees of difficulty that make small changes to gameplay equates to sliding scales to adjust every single aspect of combat gameplay, from EXP earned, to number of monsters, to strength of stats? No. Neverwinter Nights NEVER did anything bordering on that. Not even CLOSE. No sane programmer would ever make a game that did, either.

#84
In Exile

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Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Scrolling through the same list over and over again is fun?  How is that fun?


At least personally, I don't carry enough inventory to scroll, nor do I changed equipment that often.

#85
nicethugbert

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Dysjong wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

SpunkyMonkey wrote...

Inventory management, encumbrance, and crafting are 3 things which - for me personally - bog a lot of games down.

Where's the adventure in all that? I'm not saying we don't need some way of restriction on what we can carry/do, but micro-management is annoying at best and game-breaking at worst IMO.


I agree.  It has some charm at first but as the game progresses it becomes a chore.  I want a way to allow me to focus the game on what I want and not be stuck having to take seriously some boring mechanism all through out the game.


the adventure is that you need to think about how you prepare yourself for the trip towards the adventure. Apperantly you haven't tried PnP before where management of your inventory/backpack is importent. In D&D (3,5 edition) if you had too much load on you, you would become more slow, it would make it harder for you to climb, jump and swim and it would mark you as a target for people that saw there chances on getting some easy money. Even though D&D is fantasy, it stil has realism to it.


I've played plenty of D&D PnP.  And, as you well know, options abound in PnP.  I'm just asking a for a few in a computer game.  I'm not asking for a lot.

#86
nicethugbert

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nightscrawl wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I can do that with what I am suggesting and so can everybody else and it would be child's play for BW to implement.

And you know this because...? Just because the "ingredients are already in the game" doesn't mean they can easily assemble them in the way you want.


It's worth the effort.  Giving the customer satisfaction is always worth the effort.  Otherwise the customer may as well dispose of their disposable income somewhere else.  It's certainly not the most difficult task in the world.  You don't see the inventory tetris crowd telling BW to not put in all their favorite complications because it would be too much trouble.  They want what they want and they don't give a damn how hard it is to make it happen.  What I'm asking for is no more difficult than everything else you see in the game.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 09:05 .


#87
In Exile

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[quote]nicethugbert wrote...

Yes, like DA:O is four games in one(Easy DA:O, Normal DA:O, ...........) because that is what difficulty settings amount to and shame on EA for not advertising that DA:O is four games for the price of one. [/quote]

No, it isn't. What DA:O does is just change when potions spawn (there's a counter), and then what your healing does, how your hit rate changes, and how much magic resistance there is. That's it.

[quote]BW elected to get into the cooking business.  I'm just letting them know what meal I want to buy from them.  Don't worry them is a banquet in ti for everybody. [/quote]

You don't want meat. You want a soup-steak.

[quote]Pansies.[/quote]

Yeah, it's totally them, and certainly you not having any idea how this works.

[quote]No, you take the local price of the item and multiply it by the multiplier, child's play. [/quote]

It's amazing how little you actually understand of coding.

[quote]Adjust your settings and reload the last save. [/quote]

Right, I forget, you don't understand how game design works. Well, the developers are just going to pray to the gaming gods, and then a giant sperm whale will fly in on a helicopter and deliver your game to you. Just wait outside with a tinfoil hat - that's how they'll know it's you.

[quote]Why do you compare a single monster to a group of monsters?[/quote]

The actual answer is that developers need to know this to design the feature. But since we're not actually having a serious conversation about this, it's because herp derp

[quote]No, furniture is done by hand.  Encounters are scripted.  So, when the game reads the script and sees 10 Hurlocks and 1 Hurlock Alpha in the script, it is easy for it to look at the Horde Size setting, see that it is set to 20% and spawn 2 Hurlocks and 1 Hurlock Alpha. [/quote]

Yeah, okay, you're completely right. Bioware is lazy, they want to steal your money, and there's nothing you can do about it! We're all just posting here to make your life miserable, because were' in on it! Muahaha!

[quote]The player can change the settings and reload the last save.  Also, the player should understand that if you make the game more difficult than the hardest setting, you're asking for punishment. [/quote]

You're right. Players are perfectly rational, they don't ever overstimate their abilities, and the purpose of game design is to create as frustrating a user experience as possible! WHY DID I NOT SEE THIS BEFORE!?

[quote]Not true, the DA series and practically every game turns off Friendly Fire in easy mode and turns it on in higher difficulties. [/quote]

Did you just tell me that an ability that exists in-game is false? 

[quote]Giving the player control over this is not an issue.  He can always make the choice that suits him best.  This is not some universal evil.  Your game experience is not going to be ruined because I decided to turn friendly fire on or off. [/quote]

No. But your gaming experience might be. Bioware has to double check that it isn't. Because they're in the business of making money.

Wait - why I am taking you seriously? Crap.

[quote]This is the same issue as Friendly Fire which is a non-issue. [/quote]

You're right. Bioware hates you personally and doesn't give you options because they derive pleasure from cheating their gamers out of fun. Mark Darah has a spy camera in each box and watches early as players bemoan the lack of fun in each product.

[quote]People hit the level cap in games all the time.  Learn to program. [/quote]

In DA, you don't hit the level cap. There's not enough XP in-game to do it.

[quote]This is a bunch of selective hysteria.
[/quote]

I'm just not smart enough to have a post as intelligent as yours, so I need to drool on my keyboard a lot.

#88
nicethugbert

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AlexJK wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I appreciate plain and even speech.  But, I also appreciate being factual.  There is nothing impossible, or complicated, or difficult at all about what I'm suggesting.  Any programmer who makes a big deal about what I am about to suggest should have his Computer Science degree revoked.


Wow. I'll admit that my first response was snippy, but this is just arrogant. You think that adding 6 or 7 switches and sliders to change various aspects of the game in some very extreme ways is an easy programming (and design, and testing) exercise? I am offended, sir. And I'll keep my CS degree where it is, thanks.


Bring your gun to a knife fight.  It'll put an end to all the knifing.

It's no more difficult than the rest of the game.   Yet, here we have people pretending that it's more difficult than their favorite game features, such as inventory tetris.

#89
daft inquisitor

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nicethugbert wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I appreciate plain and even speech.  But, I also appreciate being factual.  There is nothing impossible, or complicated, or difficult at all about what I'm suggesting.  Any programmer who makes a big deal about what I am about to suggest should have his Computer Science degree revoked.


Wow. I'll admit that my first response was snippy, but this is just arrogant. You think that adding 6 or 7 switches and sliders to change various aspects of the game in some very extreme ways is an easy programming (and design, and testing) exercise? I am offended, sir. And I'll keep my CS degree where it is, thanks.


Bring your gun to a knife fight.  It'll put an end to all the knifing.

It's no more difficult than the rest of the game.   Yet, here we have people pretending that it's more difficult than their favorite game features, such as inventory tetris.

Inventory Tetris isn't a "feature". I don't think you understand what we mean by it. It's just a different inventory management system. It's just a layout for how the inventory is handled. It's no more or less complex than any other inventory management system to program. It just is what it is.

But that nutjob whackadoo magical slider doodads that you're suggesting? Those ARE more complex than any other feature in the entire game. Hell, doing it as you described would probably be harder than EVERY feature in the entire game, without drastically breaking something. I just wish you could understand that.

#90
nicethugbert

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Wulfram wrote...

The objective of a game designer is to produce a good game.

Not to produce a bunch of sliders and toggles and leave it to me to work out what will result in a good game.


You lie!  The objective of a game designer is to produce a horrible game and there is no more horrible game than the one I can customize to my satisfaction!

#91
nicethugbert

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ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
If I could find a job where all I had to do was move around digital items between five different inventories to make them all fit appropriately, I would be a very happy man. Unfortunately, a lot of jobs aren't like that. That isn't work to me. That's OCD organisation. It PLEASES me to sort out everything and make it all "fit". It makes me feel relieved when it's done, and I enjoy the mental activity involved in doing it. To me, that constitutes "fun". :P


Well, I lack such OCD.  WTF is wrong with me?

#92
nicethugbert

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BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Swagger7 wrote...

In response to the OP, the devs have already said that they don't like putting in option sliders. So it's highly unlikely you'll get your wish. Mods might be able to help you if you play on PC.


Yeah, I've noticed their anti-choice tendancies despite game advertising and all the posts complaining about the lack of choice in games.


Bioware games boast choices that effect the story, not choices to assuage your OCD.


I don't have OCD.  That is the problem I'm trying to solve!

#93
daft inquisitor

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nicethugbert wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...
If I could find a job where all I had to do was move around digital items between five different inventories to make them all fit appropriately, I would be a very happy man. Unfortunately, a lot of jobs aren't like that. That isn't work to me. That's OCD organisation. It PLEASES me to sort out everything and make it all "fit". It makes me feel relieved when it's done, and I enjoy the mental activity involved in doing it. To me, that constitutes "fun". :P


Well, I lack such OCD.  WTF is wrong with me?

Thug, I hate to tell you, but I've been spending three pages of this thread trying to answer just that...

By the way, that original response wasn't in regards to anything you said. This isn't a right/wrong thing that my comment here was. This was a personal preference thing.

Also, as I have previously come to understand, you have no idea what the hell "Inventory Tetris" is. And I'm done here. Goodbye. I hope you eventually come to understand why this entire thread is nothing but a colossal pain in the ass for many of us, and a gigantic misunderstanding by you. On several levels. At the same time.

#94
AlexJK

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nicethugbert wrote...

Bring your gun to a knife fight.  It'll put an end to all the knifing.

Well, contextually, that made no sense at all.

It's no more difficult than the rest of the game.

Sure, but I'd rather they make *the rest of the game* instead of designing, coding and testing a bunch of sliders to change a load of options that didn't need changing.

Simple things can be very, very complex. Ignoring that fact and repeatedly claiming "it's simple, it's simple" doesn't (unfortunately) make it so. Game developers spend a long time designing, coding and testing games to make sure that every single feature works properly in combination with every other feature. They spend time balancing encounters so that the game is challenging for different levels of player, offers progression and above all fun to everyone. Letting players arbitrarily change all those values just isn't necessary.

Modifié par AlexJK, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:46 .


#95
nicethugbert

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ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Tetris inventories are less efficient if the player doesn't bother managing them, but that's the player's fault. If the player takes a few minutes to sort things early on, the system becomes much less labour-intensive to use..


It's not fun. It isn't about the time invested - it's about how not fun it is.

Which, like many game mechanics, is a matter of opinion. I rather like inventory tetris, myself. A few others in the thread have said as much, as well. To each his own, and all that. B)


Exactly!  To each his own.  That is exactly what I am proposing.  So glad you came around.

No. Not the same. What you're proposing, while not impossible, would be TORTURE on a programming side. To wit, the fact that you don't understand WHY it's so much trouble may in fact be part of the problem.

Trust me, baselines don't come along in one set number in one space that is never touched or moved. There's a lot more into the metrics and coding of all the numbers depending upon and relevent in an RPG system (and video games in general) than what you're giving credit to.

Take a course in programming. And I don't mean a 101, "This is the easy stuff, you program a calculator" type of programming course. I mean a REAL one. Then, I'll take some merit in you saying how "easy" it all is.


I'm asking for what is already in the game just in a different arrangement.  You can't tell me that DA:O or DA2 would have blown up if they added more difficulty levels or more gold in game or more XP.  If they had made difficulty level so easy a 1 year old could play it or one so hard no one could have played it they would have made some one happy and the rest can pick another difficulty setting.

And, I have addresed in subsequent posts, I'm not asking for anything more difficult than what other people want.

#96
nicethugbert

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BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.


I have played the NWN games and they didn't offer the features you're demanding.


Then you know of their toolsets.  A player made an XP slider.  No modules blew up because of it.  I was able to play modules just fine with the extra XP.  A gold slider would be the same.  You know about the random spawn scripts created by players in the NWN1/2 toolsets.  You know about all the modules and PWs and all the variety of content in NWN1/2 and the years of enjoyment derived from it.  No kittens were harmed in the making of that content.

You also know that NWN1/2 have a command line where you can give yourself all the gold, items, and XP you want.  No harm cam of that.

But, on these forums a little of that is impossible but even the DA:O inventory is not complicated enough for some people and no expense can be spared to make it.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:59 .


#97
nicethugbert

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ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

Also, Thugbert, you don't have to reply to every single poster in the thread, especially one at a time. If you do, you're never going to get to the end of this thread.

The end, of course, us finally breaking through to you about how ludicrous your "suggestions" are.


Oh no, where riding this one off the cliff.  I'll show you what I do to the bottom.

#98
nicethugbert

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ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

Dysjong wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I've enjoyed games, but not as much as I could have.  It sounds like you never played Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2.  Try it.  You're standards might improve.  I wonder if anyone at Bioware remembers Neverwinter Nights 1 anymore.


I have played the NWN games and they didn't offer the features you're demanding.


that isnt correct. There is a big difference in NWN when it came to difficulty. There were easy, normal, D&D hardcore and something higher i believe. The difference from normal to D&D is big, friendly fire, critical hits had same effect on the player, if you failed your save against a pretify effect it was permanent instead of rounds.

what i don't get is how he can accept the inventory in NWN but complaining about it in dragon age.

So... four varying degrees of difficulty that make small changes to gameplay equates to sliding scales to adjust every single aspect of combat gameplay, from EXP earned, to number of monsters, to strength of stats? No. Neverwinter Nights NEVER did anything bordering on that. Not even CLOSE. No sane programmer would ever make a game that did, either.


It had a command line where tyou could grant yourself XP, items, and gold.  I want a more fluid way of managing my game play than that.  Also, the toolset allowed people to do all sorts of things. 

#99
upsettingshorts

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I want to play inventory Tetris. It's better than inventory list-keeping.

#100
FINE HERE

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@ In Exile, You are my new hero. I think... I think I love you.

@ Op, while I can kinda understand where you're coming from, you really don't understand how much work it would take to make the game like that. I could pretend that I know anything about coding and scripting and try to lecture you, but I won't because I don't understand it myself. What I do understand is that it's not as simple as it looks.

@ Inventory Tetris, I like that style much better than 'scroll down the list, pick one of twenty giant swords you're somehow carrying alongside twenty daggers, five suits of full armor and 200 pieces of junk, look at stats, next sword...' It just seems annoying to me. And just a little too unrealistic.