181 réponses à ce sujet

[sirus1988]

RedJohn wrote...

4. Infiltrators can carry two super heavy guns and still have all their powers on a 3 second cooldown by ending cloak as soon as it is cast. No other class can even come close to carrying as much weaponry and not worrying about cooldowns.

Are you sure?

You say that if i carry my Claymore and Javelin on my GI it doesn't matter because I will get only 3 seconds cooldown?

We are not playing the same game it seems

I think he meant that when you activate TC right before you shoot, it sheds off a huge amount of cooldown time than if you were to activate TC, run around a little and then shoot. But I agree, I think it would take longer than 3 seconds.

As I said before in another similar topic: Just get rid of power usage when TC is activated (and only give power usage on if you choose the power bonus evolution of TC).

[RedJohn]

SpockLives wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

4. Infiltrators can carry two super heavy guns and still have all their powers on a 3 second cooldown by ending cloak as soon as it is cast. No other class can even come close to carrying as much weaponry and not worrying about cooldowns.

Are you sure?

You say that if i carry my Claymore and Javelin on my GI it doesn't matter because I will get only 3 seconds cooldown?

We are not playing the same game it seems

I'm sure you know the actual performance better than me, RedJohn.  But are you talking about the lag-induced TC double cooldown bug?  I've had that once or twice.  I will also admit to never using more than about -20 or -30 cooldown worth of weapons.  I still get 3 second cooldown when not lagging.

No, i'm not talking about any bug, i'm talking about what you said there about the 3 seconds.

if i carry 2 super weapons with or without lag my cooldown won't be 3 seconds.
Believe me, i used to carry a claymore and Javelin on my GI for the lulz.

[JediHarbinger]

SpockLives wrote...

JediHarbinger wrote...

@OP, this thread is embarrassing and you should feel embarrassed

Your well-reasoned argument refuting all of my points one-by-one has swayed me.  I now see your point of view.

/sarcasm

glad your listening to reason. There may yet be hope for you.

[Tankcommander]

Matthias King wrote...

Tactical Cloak is all the Infiltrator class has. If they keep nerfing Tactical Cloak until it's lost all effectiveness, Infiltrators will have no reason to exist.

Infiltrators go invisible and are weapon damage oriented classes. That's what they are. Get over it.

You should go. BSN is not the place for logic and intelligent posts such as this. We want TC nerfed to complete crap, I tell you!

If anything, the cooldown for cloak and all other powers should be seperate. Otherwise it is fine. Duration has been and always will be pointless, since enemies basically ignore it anyway, and damage is always more beneficial. Take away even more damage and the class is pretty much kaput.

[RedJohn]

I don't think TC should be nerfed or that it is too powerful.


there are characters that in good hands can do as much as a GI and even more.

[Red Panda]

RedJohn wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

4. Infiltrators can carry two super heavy guns and still have all their powers on a 3 second cooldown by ending cloak as soon as it is cast. No other class can even come close to carrying as much weaponry and not worrying about cooldowns.

Are you sure?

You say that if i carry my Claymore and Javelin on my GI it doesn't matter because I will get only 3 seconds cooldown?

We are not playing the same game it seems

I'm sure you know the actual performance better than me, RedJohn.  But are you talking about the lag-induced TC double cooldown bug?  I've had that once or twice.  I will also admit to never using more than about -20 or -30 cooldown worth of weapons.  I still get 3 second cooldown when not lagging.

No, i'm not talking about any bug, i'm talking about what you said there about the 3 seconds.

if i carry 2 super weapons with or without lag my cooldown won't be 3 seconds.
Believe me, i used to carry a claymore and Javelin on my GI for the lulz.

You have to admit that the minimal coodown is still pretty low for what you're packing.

[SpockLives]

oknenah wrote...

Your forgetting biotics get 120% to primed targets with warp ammo.

Actually that is not a class-specific power. It is ammo that anyone can use. And don't get me started on how tech ammos screw over biotics trying to do biotic explosions.

[Kuato Livezz]

AkuIaTubShark wrote...

The only "issue" with TC is that it overrides all CD on any skill. Fix that and all this stupid TC Nerf talk would stop.

And thats about it.

However, IME (PUGS 100%), the games aren't filled with Infiltrators.  Of course, there's going to be 1 or 2, but rarely do I find myself playing with 3.

In all honestly, this is no revelation.  

[Hellfire257]

This is getting beyond the joke.

Will you people ever give it a rest?

Modifié par Hellfire257, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:01 .

[SpockLives]

RedJohn wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

I'm sure you know the actual performance better than me, RedJohn.  But are you talking about the lag-induced TC double cooldown bug?  I've had that once or twice.  I will also admit to never using more than about -20 or -30 cooldown worth of weapons.  I still get 3 second cooldown when not lagging.

No, i'm not talking about any bug, i'm talking about what you said there about the 3 seconds.

if i carry 2 super weapons with or without lag my cooldown won't be 3 seconds.
Believe me, i used to carry a claymore and Javelin on my GI for the lulz.

I concede the point, then.  Updating OP to say 1 super heavy weapon.  I still think it is better than other classes can get with the same cooldown penalty.

Edit: stupid formatting.

Modifié par SpockLives, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:03 .

[NuclearTech76]

RedJohn wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

4. Infiltrators can carry two super heavy guns and still have all their powers on a 3 second cooldown by ending cloak as soon as it is cast. No other class can even come close to carrying as much weaponry and not worrying about cooldowns.

Are you sure?

You say that if i carry my Claymore and Javelin on my GI it doesn't matter because I will get only 3 seconds cooldown?

We are not playing the same game it seems

I'm sure you know the actual performance better than me, RedJohn.  But are you talking about the lag-induced TC double cooldown bug?  I've had that once or twice.  I will also admit to never using more than about -20 or -30 cooldown worth of weapons.  I still get 3 second cooldown when not lagging.

No, i'm not talking about any bug, i'm talking about what you said there about the 3 seconds.

if i carry 2 super weapons with or without lag my cooldown won't be 3 seconds.
Believe me, i used to carry a claymore and Javelin on my GI for the lulz.

It's not three secs even on a duration specced infiltrator if you cloak and immediately shoot. The problem is most that are making these arguments hate the class, don't play it, and thus have no clue WTF they are talking about. Infiltrators have to worry less about weight than some other classes but even they are not immune to increased CD on TC.

[AkuIaTubShark]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

AkuIaTubShark wrote...

The only "issue" with TC is that it overrides all CD on any skill. Fix that and all this stupid TC Nerf talk would stop.

And thats about it.

However, IME (PUGS 100%), the games aren't filled with Infiltrators.  Of course, there's going to be 1 or 2, but rarely do I find myself playing with 3.

In all honestly, this is no revelation.  

Exactly. I haven't seen in Infiltrator in a PUG game in well over a week. If anything, I see more Destroyers and Geth Soldiers then all the Infil's combined. 
Other then the skill being broken... I don't see where all this complaining has any roots.

[NuclearTech76]

SpockLives wrote...

oknenah wrote...

Your forgetting biotics get 120% to primed targets with warp ammo.

Actually that is not a class-specific power. It is ammo that anyone can use. And don't get me started on how tech ammos screw over biotics trying to do biotic explosions.

Only biotics can prime and get increased DPS from the ammo though. No other class gets that, seems sort of unfair, right?

[BridgeBurner]

You're in over your head OP.

Tactical cloak is loved by many, who claim they "just like playing infiltrators".

When the real reason is, they like being carried by the character they are using (same reason why people like playing reegar kroguard). I don't necessarily feel I require an on demand stagger ability and an 80% damage bonus, because I'm more than capable of killing stuff without my character carrying me through the game using one ability.

I say, for one week and one week only, we switch tactical cloak for submission net on every infiltrator kit.

See how quickly everyone stops playing them now they are no longer carry-mode; see how quickly people realise they only like playing infiltrator because of how insanely powerful they are compared to other classes.

I support adjusting tactical cloak, so that weight actually matters for infiltrators... its ridiculous that an infiltrator can carry a claymore / typhoon and get a 3 second cooldown on their cloak; when a krogan soldier carrying the same weapons will have a 20 second cooldown on carnage.

Infiltrators should also have to choose between using cloak, or using their other powers. Partly why TC is a problem is because it's too good for what it does. No other class gets to spam 2 powers, each on a 3 second cooldown irrespective of their weight capacity.

I would reduce TC's base damage bonus to 20%, with a +30% evolution at rank 4 and a +30% evolution at rank 6, that way the potential damage bonus remains unchanged.... however I would also suggest that tactical cloak consumes shield energy as a method of balancing it. having tactical cloak reduce your shields by 50% each time you cast it would balance the power completely. Want invisibility/aggro drop and an 80% damage boost? Well, you need to pay a price for that; just like everyone else pays a price for using their own powers.

[cory257383]

Ima leave. I have to many ban worthy things to say about nerfers. It's Strong not OP.

[SpockLives]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

It's not three secs even on a duration specced infiltrator if you cloak and immediately shoot. The problem is most that are making these arguments hate the class, don't play it, and thus have no clue WTF they are talking about. Infiltrators have to worry less about weight than some other classes but even they are not immune to increased CD on TC.

See the post above yours.

Yes, a Claymore and Javelin is too much.  But what other entire class can go +0% or even -50% cooldown and still have such a short actual cooldown time on their powers?

And what does disliking the class have to do with it?  I just did two 200 wave challenges with Infiltrators.  I will partially concede the cooldown point as I exaggerated somewhat.  But what of my other points?  All 4 advantages the Infiltrator gets add up to a lot.  If TC only gave 2 of the 4 advantages, it wouldn't be so bad.

[Jebel Krong]

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

[SpockLives]

Jebel Krong wrote...

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

Insults and threats.  How nice.

What is the downside you claim?  You don't explain it.

Why don't people who disagree with me actually address my points?  I make several in the OP.  Instead, it's just name calling and rage.  I'm signing off now.

[AkuIaTubShark]

Annomander wrote...

You're in over your head OP.

Tactical cloak is loved by many, who claim they "just like playing infiltrators".

When the real reason is, they like being carried by the character they are using (same reason why people like playing reegar kroguard). I don't necessarily feel I require an on demand stagger ability and an 80% damage bonus, because I'm more than capable of killing stuff without my character carrying me through the game using one ability.

I say, for one week and one week only, we switch tactical cloak for submission net on every infiltrator kit.

See how quickly everyone stops playing them now they are no longer carry-mode; see how quickly people realise they only like playing infiltrator because of how insanely powerful they are compared to other classes.

I support adjusting tactical cloak, so that weight actually matters for infiltrators... its ridiculous that an infiltrator can carry a claymore / typhoon and get a 3 second cooldown on their cloak; when a krogan soldier carrying the same weapons will have a 20 second cooldown on carnage.

Infiltrators should also have to choose between using cloak, or using their other powers. Partly why TC is a problem is because it's too good for what it does. No other class gets to spam 2 powers, each on a 3 second cooldown irrespective of their weight capacity.

I would reduce TC's base damage bonus to 20%, with a +30% evolution at rank 4 and a +30% evolution at rank 6, that way the potential damage bonus remains unchanged.... however I would also suggest that tactical cloak consumes shield energy as a method of balancing it. having tactical cloak reduce your shields by 50% each time you cast it would balance the power completely. Want invisibility/aggro drop and an 80% damage boost? Well, you need to pay a price for that; just like everyone else pays a price for using their own powers.

TGI laughs at this. 
J/s.

And I say the power needs tobe fixed before they do anything major to it, namely taking away the lol3seccooldown feature and applying either TC's real CD or the skill (If used to break cloak)'s CD+some. That, I'll agree on. 
And the aggro drop doesn't always work, I've cloaked behind things which ending up shooting me as I ran by them (In cloak).

[tossin]

Speaking as someone who doesn't really care about DPS and getting high scores, nerfing Tactical Cloak to the point you're suggesting reduces potential playing strategies (e.g. Melee builds), which in the end reduces total fun.

[Jebel Krong]

Annomander wrote...


Tactical cloak is loved by many, who claim they "just like playing infiltrators".

When the real reason is, they like being carried by the character they are using (same reason why people like playing reegar kroguard). I don't necessarily feel I require an on demand stagger ability and an 80% damage bonus, because I'm more than capable of killing stuff without my character carrying me through the game using one ability.

Blah Blah more BS...

you sound like you get carried. a lot. on bronze. FYI  "aggro dump" is a myth.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:15 .

[spudspot]

NuclearTech76 wrote...


It's not three secs even on a duration specced infiltrator if you cloak and immediately shoot. The problem is most that are making these arguments hate the class, don't play it, and thus have no clue WTF they are talking about. Infiltrators have to worry less about weight than some other classes but even they are not immune to increased CD on TC.

It is exactly three seconds cooldown if you're cloaking and immediately firing your gun, no matter how many and how heavy guns you're packing. 

TC will however be active for at least one second, a second you'll have to add to the three second cooldown, which makes it effectively 4s between activations.

Yes, I did just take a video to reassure myself of this.

[vkt62]

This would have been valid before the nerf a few months ago. Now, its on par with most of the new special characters.

[RoundedPlanet88]

tossin wrote...

Speaking as someone who doesn't really care about DPS and getting high scores, nerfing Tactical Cloak to the point you're suggesting reduces potential playing strategies (e.g. Melee builds), which in the end reduces total fun.

Wow, did you even read the post?

[sirus1988]

Annomander wrote...

Infiltrators should also have to choose between using cloak, or using their other powers. Partly why TC is a problem is because it's too good for what it does. No other class gets to spam 2 powers, each on a 3 second cooldown irrespective of their weight capacity.

I agree with this. They should get rid of power usage when TC is activated. You will still be able to use powers when TC is on if you choose the power bonus evolution. I don't think anyone ever chooses that evolution because it's pointless when they can do it anyway and still have enought time to shoot one round before it breaks TC.