181 réponses à ce sujet

[RoundedPlanet88]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Annomander wrote...


Tactical cloak is loved by many, who claim they "just like playing infiltrators".

When the real reason is, they like being carried by the character they are using (same reason why people like playing reegar kroguard). I don't necessarily feel I require an on demand stagger ability and an 80% damage bonus, because I'm more than capable of killing stuff without my character carrying me through the game using one ability.

Blah Blah more BS...

you sound like you get carried. a lot. on bronze.

Pot, kettle? Well, I guess ingorance is truley bliss,

[JediHarbinger]

SpockLives wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

Insults and threats.  How nice.

What is the downside you claim?  You don't explain it.

Why don't people who disagree with me actually address my points?  I make several in the OP.  Instead, it's just name calling and rage.  I'm signing off now.

fine, let me address this then, Spock is dumb a philosopher with silly ears and he should comb his hair. better?

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

SpockLives wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

4. Infiltrators can carry two super heavy guns and still have all their powers on a 3 second cooldown by ending cloak as soon as it is cast. No other class can even come close to carrying as much weaponry and not worrying about cooldowns.

Are you sure?

You say that if i carry my Claymore and Javelin on my GI it doesn't matter because I will get only 3 seconds cooldown?

We are not playing the same game it seems

I'm sure you know the actual performance better than me, RedJohn.  But are you talking about the lag-induced TC double cooldown bug?  I've had that once or twice.  I will also admit to never using more than about -20 or -30 cooldown worth of weapons.  I still get 3 second cooldown when not lagging.

As I posted in the other thread, and I stand by it, I've switched back and forth between HI with Valiant and Shadow with Carnifex regularly since the Shadow came out, and can compare the two in practical terms.

The cooldown of TC after firing a shot with both characters is different. Unless I am experiencing a special bug that only affects me, TC CD is affected by weapon weight.

[N7 Mizuko]

It's been said, but I believe that if point 4, the power CD issue were taken care of, TC would be fine.

[spudspot]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

The cooldown of TC after firing a shot with both characters is different. Unless I am experiencing a special bug that only affects me, TC CD is affected by weapon weight.

Granted, I just only took a video of a GI at -200% CD, but it's pretty obvious to see that cloak stays active for at least 1s and that the cooldown will only start after you've broken cloak.

That means if you cloak and immediately fire a shot, cloak will last for 1s and after that a CD of 3s will start. 

I might be totally wrong and just make this up, but I think I've read somewhere that the Shadow decloaks faster, i.e. doesn't have that 1s minimum cloaking time.

[brazen_nl]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2667W7yZVTJd052CPWUjJ-LwWPh0D-BqGSw6RlvG4DZah8DbfTQ

Cryo shield anyday.

Modifié par brazen_nl, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:24 .

[cdzander]

TC being too powerful is YOUR OPINION. It is my opinion that it is not too powerful. Please do not make the mistake of equating an opinion with fact.

[Mariachi 43]

What you seem to not understand is that cloak grants those bonuses for one shot (maybe four if using a fast firing weapon which won't help it too much). Then, in your words, 3 seconds later, they can get those bonuses again. In my case it's longer because I rock a black widow on non ghost infiltrators.

Lets look at all the other classes.

Human soldier: adrenaline rush can last 6-9 seconds with a pretty quick cool down and instant reload
Geth: constant damage bonus with hunter mode on.
Destroyer: constant damage bonus with devastated mode on.
Marksman ability: firing rate/accuracy bonus with low cool down and instant reload.

And the list goes on. So I get spike damage every few seconds while other jobs can do pretty level damage over time, seems well worth the trade.

So the short answer is no it doesn't need nerfed, now kindly shut the hell up.

[RoundedPlanet88]

cdzander wrote...

TC being too powerful is YOUR OPINION. It is my opinion that it is not too powerful. Please do not make the mistake of equating an opinion with fact.

And where oh where are your counter points?
Simply saying that it is not Op is AN OPINION, DO NOT POST IT AS FACT.
Jesus, if you`d followed YOUR OWN ADVICE you wouldn`t have posted that

[RoundedPlanet88]

Mariachi 43 wrote...

What you seem to not understand is that cloak grants those bonuses for one shot (maybe four if using a fast firing weapon which won't help it too much). Then, in your words, 3 seconds later, they can get those bonuses again. In my case it's longer because I rock a black widow on non ghost infiltrators.

Lets look at all the other classes.

Human soldier: adrenaline rush can last 6-9 seconds with a pretty quick cool down and instant reload
Geth: constant damage bonus with hunter mode on.
Destroyer: constant damage bonus with devastated mode on.
Marksman ability: firing rate/accuracy bonus with low cool down and instant reload.

And the list goes on. So I get spike damage every few seconds while other jobs can do pretty level damage over time, seems well worth the trade.

So the short answer is no it doesn't need nerfed, now kindly shut the hell up.

it lasts for 2.5 seconds, with 3 second min cooldown, and overides other powers cooldown, AND IS INDEPENDENT OF WEAPON WEIGHT. All of which you failed to adress.

[Miniditka77]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

As I posted in the other thread, and I stand by it, I've switched back and forth between HI with Valiant and Shadow with Carnifex regularly since the Shadow came out, and can compare the two in practical terms.

The cooldown of TC after firing a shot with both characters is different. Unless I am experiencing a special bug that only affects me, TC CD is affected by weapon weight.

Tactical cloak cooldown IS affected by weapon weight - nobody has ever said otherwise.  But the TC cooldown is also affected by the amount of time you are cloaked (I think it's a linear proportion).  If you cloak and then break cloak right away, your cooldown will be a very small % of what the listed cooldown is.  The developers set a minimum cooldown on TC of 3 seconds so that players can't abuse the power by making the cooldown 0.2 seconds or something.  But you can have -200% penalty and still get a 3-second cooldown for TC if you activate TC and then break it immediately. 

[cdzander]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

cdzander wrote...

TC being too powerful is YOUR OPINION. It is my opinion that it is not too powerful. Please do not make the mistake of equating an opinion with fact.

And where oh where are your counter points?
Simply saying that it is not Op is AN OPINION, DO NOT POST IT AS FACT.
Jesus, if you`d followed YOUR OWN ADVICE you wouldn`t have posted that

I don't have to make any points. My opinion that it is not OP is as valid, or invalid, as anyone else's opinion that it is OP. I grow weary of the same posts, every day, about the same stuff that people THINK is overpowered. If you don't like a certain power, or gun, then don't use it. But don't try to ruin it for those of us that do like these things.

Modifié par cdzander, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:32 .

[Jebel Krong]

SpockLives wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

Insults and threats.  How nice.

What is the downside you claim?  You don't explain it.

Why don't people who disagree with me actually address my points?  I make several in the OP.  Instead, it's just name calling and rage.  I'm signing off now.

fine:

1. The class is designed as the one-shot (sniper) class, of course it has the highest peak damage, but other weapon classes, notably soldiers have higher sustained dps with their skills.
2. Melee builds also benefit but in all cases infiltrated are glass cannons, hence risk is balanced with reward as with vanguards (only without the magic 100% barrier restore). At best you get this bonus every 3 seconds, unlike other melee favourable classes which get their benefits anytime.
3. The longer the cloak, the longer the cooldown.
4. Weapon weight drastically affects power recharge especially combined with point #3.
5. The  "power" reliant infiltrator gets no weapon damage bonus.
6. Possibly the most important downside is that post-nerf (thanks btw!) is that realistically you can only really take damage which means cloak - for infiltrating - is reduced to brief damage increase only, drastically compromising movement and utility of the entire skill.

[RoundedPlanet88]

cdzander wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

cdzander wrote...

TC being too powerful is YOUR OPINION. It is my opinion that it is not too powerful. Please do not make the mistake of equating an opinion with fact.

And where oh where are your counter points?
Simply saying that it is not Op is AN OPINION, DO NOT POST IT AS FACT.
Jesus, if you`d followed YOUR OWN ADVICE you wouldn`t have posted that

I don't have to make any points. My opinion that it is not OP is as valid, or invalid, as anyone else's opinion that it is OP. I'm grow weary of the same posts, every day, about the same stuff that people THINK is overpowered. If you don't like a certain power, or gun, then don't use it. But don't try to ruin it for those of us that do like these things.

And still no points. Why bother posting if you arn`t saying anything? why bother saying that It isn`t OP when you can`t/won`t give any evidence for it, espicially iin a thread where you are asked to do so in the OP? Please for the love of god either admit that you don`t have a counterargument, or come up with one. Stop just sstating that its not. As for the opinion thing, the OP adresses FACTS about tac cloak that support his claim, you have yet to give FACTS that support your claim.

[Mariachi 43]

You obviously do not play infiltrator if you think it's not affected by weight. Infiltrator is my second highest promoted class with around 70 promotions, cloak is definitely affected by weight. And your last comment makes no sense. You seemed to be talking about more than one thing without addressing what you're talking about. And oh no, it overrides other power cool downs. Unless you're the huntress, you're not getting that much of a damage boost. And while we are talking overrides, I'm sure you have never used a reload cancel ever.

Kindly refer to the last sentence of my previous post. And learn how to structure your arguments better instead of rage typing to the point that half of your response make no sense.

[RedJohn]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Annomander wrote...


Tactical cloak is loved by many, who claim they "just like playing infiltrators".

When the real reason is, they like being carried by the character they are using (same reason why people like playing reegar kroguard). I don't necessarily feel I require an on demand stagger ability and an 80% damage bonus, because I'm more than capable of killing stuff without my character carrying me through the game using one ability.

Blah Blah more BS...

you sound like you get carried. a lot. on bronze. FYI  "aggro dump" is a myth.

Well, I duoed gold with him, both using a Volus, i don't think he is a noob...

[Tsouks]

I'm with you on this OP. I know it's really frustrating when an infiltrator, having all those bonuses,  healthgates me with his first shot, and kills me with the second. No fun in that.

Seriously now. It feels like nerf/buff threads take 1/3 of this forum. And it's a Co-Op game.
I cannot stop laughing every time people ask for a PvP mode. I can safely state that if this happens, the butthurt over the ME3 ending will be put to shame.

P.S. I play as an infiltrator most of the time lately, so.... NO.   

[RoundedPlanet88]

Jebel Krong wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

Insults and threats.  How nice.

What is the downside you claim?  You don't explain it.

Why don't people who disagree with me actually address my points?  I make several in the OP.  Instead, it's just name calling and rage.  I'm signing off now.

fine:

1. The class is designed as the one-shot (sniper) class, of course it has the highest peak damage, but other weapon classes, notably soldiers have higher sustained dps with their skills.
2. Melee builds also benefit but in all cases infiltrated are glass cannons, hence risk is balanced with reward as with vanguards (only without the magic 100% barrier restore). At best you get this bonus every 3 seconds, unlike other melee favourable classes which get their benefits anytime.
3. The longer the cloak, the longer the cooldown.
4. Weapon weight drastically affects power recharge especially combined with point #3.
5. The  "power" reliant infiltrator gets no weapon damage bonus.
6. Possibly the most important downside is that post-nerf (thanks btw!) is that realistically you can only really take damage which means cloak - for infiltrating - is reduced to brief damage increase only, drastically compromising movement and utility of the entire skill.

yup, ignorance is bliss.
1.)Infiltrators have highest DPS
3.)Glass cannons with similar shields and an aggro drop in addition to large scale melee multiplyers. yup, glass canons
3.) When did you ever use a full time cloak?
4.) uh huh Yeah. sure. lets see, 3 seconds is still.......oh yeah, 3 seconds. Large difference there.
5.) ROFLMAO
6.) This actually goes agaisnt your points 1,2, and 5 Im not going to bother even adressing it.

[T41rdEye]

Hellfire257 wrote...

This is getting beyond the joke.

Will you people ever give it a rest?

They have nothing better to do.

They obviously aren't playing the game, because they would know TC isn't OP anymore. The only argument that is semi-valid is the GI and TGI with their passives/bath salt packs that stack damage on top of TC. Even then, theres nothing wrong with the classes. People just get jelly and their jimmies rustled when Infiltrator killin everythin and ignoring revives/caps. 

Modifié par Me1mN0t, 11 janvier 2013 - 08:40 .

[kipac]

When other characters and classes can spam biotic or tech explosions, infiltrator usually rely on weapon damage with a help of TC.
You wanna take that away?

[kequilla]

I like all classes, i like all abilities, i like all the guns(atm thats a lie but all things are variable). I really like my human soldier witha shotgun.

I purposefully digress, this thread is burning

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Miniditka77 wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

As I posted in the other thread, and I stand by it, I've switched back and forth between HI with Valiant and Shadow with Carnifex regularly since the Shadow came out, and can compare the two in practical terms.

The cooldown of TC after firing a shot with both characters is different. Unless I am experiencing a special bug that only affects me, TC CD is affected by weapon weight.

Tactical cloak cooldown IS affected by weapon weight - nobody has ever said otherwise.  But the TC cooldown is also affected by the amount of time you are cloaked (I think it's a linear proportion).  If you cloak and then break cloak right away, your cooldown will be a very small % of what the listed cooldown is.  The developers set a minimum cooldown on TC of 3 seconds so that players can't abuse the power by making the cooldown 0.2 seconds or something.  But you can have -200% penalty and still get a 3-second cooldown for TC if you activate TC and then break it immediately. 

I actually agree with how the devs set it up.

I don't capitalize on it, as the heaviest weapon I use with an infiltrator is the Valiant. But I don't mind when other players take advantage.

But what I referred to is that many people have stated that the Infiltrator ignores weapon weight. Some of them mean to refer to the mechanic you describe, but they are incorrectly stating it as an absolute that applies to Tactical Cloak.

I don't mind that they are criticizing the infiltrator classes as too powerful, but they are claiming Tac Cloak can completely ignore weapon weight.

[sirus1988]

kipac wrote...

When other characters and classes can spam biotic or tech explosions, infiltrator usually rely on weapon damage with a help of TC.
You wanna take that away?

I don't think the current issues is about weapon damage anymore. It's more like power cooldowns and spagetti sauce.

[Jebel Krong]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

 yeah i reported this as another troll thread. There's nothing wrong with tac cloak as the downside more than balance and no other skill causes as much dichotomy as cloak with damage/duration. The response to your first thread should have warned you not to just repeat the mistake because you don't like the consensus .

Insults and threats.  How nice.

What is the downside you claim?  You don't explain it.

Why don't people who disagree with me actually address my points?  I make several in the OP.  Instead, it's just name calling and rage.  I'm signing off now.

fine:

1. The class is designed as the one-shot (sniper) class, of course it has the highest peak damage, but other weapon classes, notably soldiers have higher sustained dps with their skills.
2. Melee builds also benefit but in all cases infiltrated are glass cannons, hence risk is balanced with reward as with vanguards (only without the magic 100% barrier restore). At best you get this bonus every 3 seconds, unlike other melee favourable classes which get their benefits anytime.
3. The longer the cloak, the longer the cooldown.
4. Weapon weight drastically affects power recharge especially combined with point #3.
5. The  "power" reliant infiltrator gets no weapon damage bonus.
6. Possibly the most important downside is that post-nerf (thanks btw!) is that realistically you can only really take damage which means cloak - for infiltrating - is reduced to brief damage increase only, drastically compromising movement and utility of the entire skill.

yup, ignorance is bliss.
1.)Infiltrators have highest DPS
3.)Glass cannons with similar shields and an aggro drop in addition to large scale melee multiplyers. yup, glass canons
3.) When did you ever use a full time cloak?
4.) uh huh Yeah. sure. lets see, 3 seconds is still.......oh yeah, 3 seconds. Large difference there.
5.) ROFLMAO
6.) This actually goes agaisnt your points 1,2, and 5 Im not going to bother even adressing it.

LOL i should have used smaller words or pictures for you, huh? And no, 6 doesn't contradict anything it's merely a by-product of the last nerf.
Burst dps is different from sustained - try looking these concepts up if you can actually read of course...
How many shots do shields last on gold/platinum? Uh huh. aggro drop is a complete myth.

[UKStory135]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Mariachi 43 wrote...

What you seem to not understand is that cloak grants those bonuses for one shot (maybe four if using a fast firing weapon which won't help it too much). Then, in your words, 3 seconds later, they can get those bonuses again. In my case it's longer because I rock a black widow on non ghost infiltrators.

Lets look at all the other classes.

Human soldier: adrenaline rush can last 6-9 seconds with a pretty quick cool down and instant reload
Geth: constant damage bonus with hunter mode on.
Destroyer: constant damage bonus with devastated mode on.
Marksman ability: firing rate/accuracy bonus with low cool down and instant reload.

And the list goes on. So I get spike damage every few seconds while other jobs can do pretty level damage over time, seems well worth the trade.

So the short answer is no it doesn't need nerfed, now kindly shut the hell up.

it lasts for 2.5 seconds, with 3 second min cooldown, and overides other powers cooldown, AND IS INDEPENDENT OF WEAPON WEIGHT. All of which you failed to adress.

All of those powers he mentioned are equally independent of weapon weight due to their always on nature or their much shorter base cooldowns.