181 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellfire257]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Hellfire257 wrote...

FPSBlake wrote...

Everyone keeps talking about infiltrator melee bonuses but when's the last time anyone saw a melee infiltrator out perform something like a melee speced kro guard or a bat guard on gold?

That's just it. If it was that overpowered why aren't infiltrators topping scoreboards a lot?

Because most infiltrators are bad players?

Then class is only as good as the person playing it, which is my point.

[ISHYGDDT]

Hellfire257 wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Hellfire257 wrote...

FPSBlake wrote...

Everyone keeps talking about infiltrator melee bonuses but when's the last time anyone saw a melee infiltrator out perform something like a melee speced kro guard or a bat guard on gold?

That's just it. If it was that overpowered why aren't infiltrators topping scoreboards a lot?

Because most infiltrators are bad players?

Then class is only as good as the person playing it, which is my point.

Indeed.

[FPSBlake]

Cyonan wrote...

FPSBlake wrote...

Everyone keeps talking about infiltrator melee bonuses but when's the last time anyone saw a melee infiltrator out perform something like a melee speced kro guard or a bat guard on gold?

A well played N7 Shadow could do it.

So could a well played melee GI or Asari Huntress. Even the QFI can do quite good in a melee build since Sabotage's Tech Vulnerability increases her melee damage too.

The main reason you see the Kroguard or Broguard doing it is because there's no risk of death to anything but sync kills.

I agree with you however when it comes to ease of use and overall utility infiltrator is imo not by any means the best class for melee. 

Modifié par FPSBlake, 12 janvier 2013 - 01:45 .

[BridgeBurner]

Jebel Krong wrote...

wow. The butthurt must be bad... I would reciprocate competitive stats but i really don't care what you think.

Haha, too bad I outscore scrubs like you with your EZ mode infiltrator all the time.

"Try hard" more with your carry class, I'll stick with my vorcha engineer.

Because I don't need 80% extra damage to carry me.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .

[Cyonan]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...
I have to disagree with you there cyonan, all INF minus the asari (which is that way because its actually glitched) can do massive amounts of damage. The 2~3 (Geth/quarian/drell?) your talking about are rediculously massive damage. I can honestly say (at least do to the fact that weapon damage makes up a large part of player 2 enemy damage in this game) all the INF classes I play compared to others have a much easier, and enemy smashfest time. I don't have to wear down a banshee with biotic explosions, my human INF drops her in 5~6 headshots with my Black widow X, because TC (and weapon passives and gear) gives me such a large advantage over them.

Adrenaline rush comes close to TC in crazy ness, but AR is weapon damage only, i'm not giving my sticky grenades and proximity/recon mines 80% MORE damage while still being able to get weapon damage and mitigate damage AND have a 3 second timer. I'm not 100% sure but Adrenaline rush as is has a pretty quick cooldown, Its over 3 seconds no matter what I do if I use my Black widow on soldier, while, as long as I'm firing or using powers on an enemy, I can use w/e combo of heavy weapons I want on INF.

Everything can do great damage though.

My Asari Justicar can get 10% weapon damage short of a Human Soldier with Adrenaline Rush because of Warp Rounds IV, which works on everything but shields and also sunders armour.

Anyone with a biotic primer can do that. The ones with Warp will surpass the Human Soldier because of Warp's multiplicative 15% damage debuff.

I was even running a Harrier + Incendiary Rounds Concussive Shot build today(no Adrenaline Rush at all) and was nuking gold spawns with it in pretty good time.

The whole "Infiltrators can ignore weight" is also not a great argument imo. On top of not being entirely true you'll never see Infiltrators running 2 heavy weapons. They run 1 at most, which any other weapons user or grenadier can get away with. Running 2 heavy weapons means you cannot spend more than half a second in cloak or you have a very harsh cooldown.

What we have right now is that weapon spam is more efficient than power spam for solo play. You'll not keep up with the Infiltrator while trying to spam Warp -> Throw, but you will if you toss on a Harrier and use Warp as a debuffer.

[Hellfire257]

Annomander wrote...
EZ mode infiltrator

If it is easy mode, then how come so many players seem to flat out fail with the class?

[Cyonan]

Flaming Snake wrote...

Remove the cooldown cancel, and it shall be better.

Drop the damage to equal levels of Adrenaline rush, and it shall be balanced. That way, if you want to use a sniper, then put 2 more ranks in it.

AR has +100% base shields, and TC has 4 seconds of aggro dumping.

This is my opinion, now enjoy.

Your opinion didn't account for the fact that AR gives a free reload and has a shorter base cooldown, and thus would destroy Tactical Cloak =P

[Cyonan]

Flaming Snake wrote...
You can reload cancel into TC, and the difference in cooldown times is what, .5 of a second? 

Only 3 characters have AR, and honestly, most randoms overlook them, an entire class has TC, with a myriad of different powers and skill sets, that make them deal ALOT of damage, in a short amount of time (Looking at you GI...)

I can reload cancel in AR too =P

The main thing of AR's free reload is one of two things:

1. AR + Claymore currently spikes higher than TC + Claymore does in damage(I could replace it with the Javelin and AR still wins. That is how much higher it currently is). TC just spikes more often.
2. Certain weapons, such as the Typhoon, don't ever need manual reloading.

Plus the shorter cooldown, and the fact that TC's aggro dump is not always the most reliable thing =P

[Ronnie Blastoff]

Cyonan wrote...

Flaming Snake wrote...

Remove the cooldown cancel, and it shall be better.

Drop the damage to equal levels of Adrenaline rush, and it shall be balanced. That way, if you want to use a sniper, then put 2 more ranks in it.

AR has +100% base shields, and TC has 4 seconds of aggro dumping.

This is my opinion, now enjoy.

Your opinion didn't account for the fact that AR gives a free reload and has a shorter base cooldown, and thus would destroy Tactical Cloak =P

Tac cloak is actually great and for the most part the backbone of INF. As before it already had the nerf, It just needs the recharge to be accurate. Agreed not many INF(smarter ones) use 2 heavy weapons, but all more reason to make the recharge stick. With BW, my recharge is 5~6 seconds for most classes, not a bad tradeoff for the perks.

Oh and not that I don't believe you, as I said before AR is very close to TC in sheer "dam what happend to that atlus." I've used a black widow with WRIV on Turian Sentinel. (actually did it eariler today as well) Adrenaline rushes "auto reload" cancels out the rediculous long reload of BW and "cancels" the 3rd shots delay into the next. There is some serious spike damage in AR. I can't see an asari justicar, even with those buffs pulling out enemies brains like a human soldier (in the same capable hands)

[BridgeBurner]

Hellfire257 wrote...

Annomander wrote...
EZ mode infiltrator

If it is easy mode, then how come so many players seem to flat out fail with the class?

Its strange, that I see 10x as many infiltrators as I do engineers.

Interesting.

People love being carried by an EZ mode class. They don't like infiltrators for any other reason than them being overpowered.

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

If all the clowns who play infiltrators are so skilled, let's see them try to outscore me with something that doesn't have an iWin button.

Modifié par Annomander, 12 janvier 2013 - 02:28 .

[solidprice]

seems like a good idea. just make the huntress the exception, and it sounds good to me TC.

[ISHYGDDT]

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

I don't play the Vorcha Engineer because he doesn't have anything I like using.

BTW:  How would you, personally, spec a Geth Trooper for melee?

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 12 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .

[Cyonan]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...
Tac cloak is actually great and for the most part the backbone of INF. As before it already had the nerf, It just needs the recharge to be accurate. Agreed not many INF(smarter ones) use 2 heavy weapons, but all more reason to make the recharge stick. With BW, my recharge is 5~6 seconds for most classes, not a bad tradeoff for the perks. 

Oh and not that I don't believe you, as I said before AR is very close to TC in sheer "dam what happend to that atlus." I've used a black widow with WRIV on Turian Sentinel. (actually did it eariler today as well) Adrenaline rushes "auto reload" cancels out the rediculous long reload of BW and "cancels" the 3rd shots delay into the next. There is some serious spike damage in AR. I can't see an asari justicar, even with those buffs pulling out enemies brains like a human soldier (in the same capable hands)

The main reason I use AR in these discussions is because AR spikes higher in damage, but doesn't spike as frequently. As you said, it's already very close to TC in sheer WTF damage.

Problem with making TC have a static cooldown is that causes it to lose much of that frequency that's putting it back ahead of Adrenaline Rush, which just makes AR far superior. I see plenty of threads about nerfing TC, but these same people will defend Adrenaline Rush and Marksman when they want to nerf Tactical Cloak =P

Really though it wont make them suffer longer cooldowns. It will just make them all use Wraiths, Harriers, and Talons like everybody else does.

The Justicar does do really solid damage(as does anyone with Warp Rounds IV and a primer) though the free reload is going to put the Human Soldier back on top when using weapons like the Claymore.

Still though, she does massive weapon damage that can start making the lower end Infiltrators feel a tad uncomfortable when they consider she's also a biotic =P

[iloveexplosives]

just nerf the CD negation and it shoud be fine

[BridgeBurner]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

I don't play the Vorcha Engineer because he doesn't have anything I like using.

BTW:  How would you, personally, spec a Geth Trooper for melee?

I wouldn't use the GS for melee... depends if its a hybrid build or not. If you're going pure melee, but this relies on you having a steady supply of cyclonic modulators. Hybrid flamer / melee might work. 6 in fort for melee + claymore w/ omni blade + max fitness. Other points can be spend as you desire, depending on whether or not you wanted more weapon damage or to use flamer.

The GI is superior in every way due to cloak, the GS needs high level shield consumables to make him effective, the GI you can slum it with an adrenaline module due to cloak.

[ISHYGDDT]

Annomander wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

I don't play the Vorcha Engineer because he doesn't have anything I like using.

BTW:  How would you, personally, spec a Geth Trooper for melee?

I wouldn't use the GS for melee... depends if its a hybrid build or not. If you're going pure melee, but this relies on you having a steady supply of cyclonic modulators. Hybrid flamer / melee might work. 6 in fort for melee + claymore w/ omni blade + max fitness. Other points can be spend as you desire, depending on whether or not you wanted more weapon damage or to use flamer.

The GI is superior in every way due to cloak, the GS needs high level shield consumables to make him effective, the GI you can slum it with an adrenaline module due to cloak.

Thanks for the advice.

I probably won't spec flamer, although I guess it has synergy with melee.  I have considered speccing the GI for melee, but the weapon damage bonuses are just too good to gimp, which I guess is the topic of the thread.


@OP:  I wouldn't mind your changes but they would further nerf the N7 Shadow, which is one of the least powerful infiltrators, while doing next to nothing to the Turian Ghost, nor Quarian Male Infiltrator (if you went with option 2) which are 2/3 of the godly infiltrator trio.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 12 janvier 2013 - 03:11 .

[lightswitch]

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

If all the clowns who play infiltrators are so skilled, let's see them try to outscore me with something that doesn't have an iWin button.

Edit to add: Ahh, the old 'I can outscore you so my argument is valid' fallacy.

Can I use a Drell Adept for your challenge? Because his iWin button doesn't even have a cooldown. Or maybe a Fury? Her iWin button has a quicker cooldown than Tac Cloak by far. I don't know of a more obvious 'iWin' button than Adrenaline Rush with a Claymore. I can be drunk and still kill everything because if the guy on the left didn't die when I shot him I still have another shot to try shooting the guy on right. 

Essentially your argument has become "anything more powerful than a Vorcha Engineer is EZ-mode and OP." So ridiculously absurd. It's a bad argument and you should feel bad.

I play with a few people on an a regular basis, and it has been my observation that everyone pretty much always scores what their skill level says they should score, irregardless of what class they play. I could take a TGI Harrier and I still won't outscore Deerber or Aedolon or cowwy or Mollusk. Easy mode isn't as easy as you want it to be.

Modifié par lightswitch, 12 janvier 2013 - 03:13 .

[lightswitch]

Cyonan wrote...

My Asari Justicar can get 10% weapon damage short of a Human Soldier with Adrenaline Rush because of Warp Rounds IV, which works on everything but shields and also sunders armour.

Just curious, why isn't she doing as much damage as an HS? I actually thought she would be doing more. How does the damage bonus from Warp ammo apply exactly?

[Daihannya]

FPSBlake wrote...

Everyone keeps talking about infiltrator melee bonuses but when's the last time anyone saw a melee infiltrator out perform something like a melee speced kro guard or a bat guard on gold?

Did it with TGI on platinum.  TOK  melee phantoms and mooks right and left using acolyte with pistol stunner and dropping bosses with my harrier.  His melee synergizes more with stimpacks than the overload powers. 

Also typically run since they are AOE melee the following 2 infiltrators.
Huntress melee build
GI melee build
 
FYI I play krogan a lot too, melee vanguard, and krogan sentinel.   

Makes for a different play style.  I don't think TC melee is broken though.  As you will die if you goof with the GI and huntress.  But I can melee just effectively if not even more than a Batarian given it is AOE  with any of the build above.  I have lots of playtime with a kroguard melee so for me its tough to top that myself in that category.

Modifié par Daihannya, 12 janvier 2013 - 03:21 .

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

My Asari Justicar can get 10% weapon damage short of a Human Soldier with Adrenaline Rush because of Warp Rounds IV, which works on everything but shields and also sunders armour.

Just curious, why isn't she doing as much damage as an HS? I actually thought she would be doing more. How does the damage bonus from Warp ammo apply exactly?

Warp Rounds IV does 60% which is increased by 100% multiplicatively on primed targets for 120%.

I'm assuming that the Human Soldier is also using Warp Rounds IV though which adds up to 130% with Adrenaline Rush. Justicar can get the same weapon damage from her passive as a Human Soldier.

She'll surpass the Human Soldier on primed Barriers since she's doing 240% to the Human Soldier's 190%.

AR does also have that free reload, though.

When it comes to spike damage it's very hard to beat Adrenaline Rush because of the dual Claymore shot.

Modifié par Cyonan, 12 janvier 2013 - 03:22 .

[BridgeBurner]

lightswitch wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

If all the clowns who play infiltrators are so skilled, let's see them try to outscore me with something that doesn't have an iWin button.

Edit to add: Ahh, the old 'I can outscore you so my argument is valid' fallacy.

Can I use a Drell Adept for your challenge? Because his iWin button doesn't even have a cooldown. Or maybe a Fury? Her iWin button has a quicker cooldown than Tac Cloak by far. I don't know of a more obvious 'iWin' button than Adrenaline Rush with a Claymore. I can be drunk and still kill everything because if the guy on the left didn't die when I shot him I still have another shot to try shooting the guy on right. 

Essentially your argument has become "anything more powerful than a Vorcha Engineer is EZ-mode and OP." So ridiculously absurd. It's a bad argument and you should feel bad.

I play with a few people on an a regular basis, and it has been my observation that everyone pretty much always scores what their skill level says they should score, irregardless of what class they play. I could take a TGI Harrier and I still won't outscore Deerber or Aedolon or cowwy or Mollusk. Easy mode isn't as easy as you want it to be.

The drell adept or vanguard requires a bit more skill than your average infiltrator does.

[Daihannya]

Annomander wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Funny how all these players don't play vorcha engineer... why? It doesn't have an "iWin" button, that's why.

If all the clowns who play infiltrators are so skilled, let's see them try to outscore me with something that doesn't have an iWin button.

Edit to add: Ahh, the old 'I can outscore you so my argument is valid' fallacy.

Can I use a Drell Adept for your challenge? Because his iWin button doesn't even have a cooldown. Or maybe a Fury? Her iWin button has a quicker cooldown than Tac Cloak by far. I don't know of a more obvious 'iWin' button than Adrenaline Rush with a Claymore. I can be drunk and still kill everything because if the guy on the left didn't die when I shot him I still have another shot to try shooting the guy on right. 

Essentially your argument has become "anything more powerful than a Vorcha Engineer is EZ-mode and OP." So ridiculously absurd. It's a bad argument and you should feel bad.

I play with a few people on an a regular basis, and it has been my observation that everyone pretty much always scores what their skill level says they should score, irregardless of what class they play. I could take a TGI Harrier and I still won't outscore Deerber or Aedolon or cowwy or Mollusk. Easy mode isn't as easy as you want it to be.

The drell adept or vanguard requires a bit more skill than your average infiltrator does.

I can understand the vanguard since you have to charge selectively before throwing your grenades.  But what is so hard about reaving and tossing a grenade.  Its two button pushes. vs TC, Proxy Mine, Shoot.   GI is just as squishy with huntermode on.  Sure you have wall hacks, but have you seen your average pug actually wallhack?  Don't give me that a drell is less survivable, as I know if you simply put adrenaline 2, or 3.  He is very survivable, you just have to keep moving so you don't get hit.

Modifié par Daihannya, 12 janvier 2013 - 03:53 .