207 réponses à ce sujet

[addiction21]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I live to serve.

Peach waffles and a side of over easy eggs. Bacon if you are feeling generous.

[hoorayforicecream]

Just to add a bit of context... The telemetry data is pretty indisputable. They literally have over 3 million individual data points to draw their conclusions from.

[Maria Caliban]

I only know how to make scrambled eggs though.

[addiction21]

Those look like peaches to me not eggs. I also recommend we stop this. Woo has an eye out for me and derailing threads into waffles.

[Addai]

sympathy4sarenreturns wrote...

Addai, don't waste your time with Dragon Age 3. You know like me its probably going to be bad. The only possible way this human choice can redeem itself is if it goes the Dark Souls route.

I haven't decided whether to play it or not.  I'll decide based on further information.

[Necrotron]

Understandable, but disappointing. The multi-race component of DA:O is part of what made that game a timeless classic with incredible replay value.

[addiction21]

Bathaius wrote...

Understandable, but disappointing. The multi-race component of DA:O is part of what made that game a timeless classic with incredible replay value.

Many games have a multi-race option. I personally would think its the origns that set it apart and if BioWare was to do that again I think they could meld them into the rest of the game better then they did. If they so wished to.

[Commander Kurt]

I liked Skyrim. I also liked Witcher 2 and Dark Souls.

I guess games can be different from one another and still be wonderful. As for why playable races was cut and not gender/sexuality, I reccon that one of them demands a lot more work the way bioware wants to do it. They really want a voiced protagonist (and many of their fans do too), and they really want the content to matter in some way (not just be different skins).

In my book, they're on the right track. I love having different origins/races, but Skyrim would be a joke of a game if not for the massive sandbox. Had bioware leaned towards shallow story, shallow companions, shallow choices, shallow everything in order for us to have 10 playable races, I would have been really sad indeed.

Regarding DA:O, does anyone know how that game fared financially? It sold twice as much as DA2, but it took more than twice as long to make.

[Neoleviathan]

So isn't this just more of an excuse to replay Origins. I mean if the data was the actual reason, thats something that can still change as long as people are still paying the game, right?
If they are going with just human characters then I'll look forward to some type of race option dlc or sidestory. I've only played one human character so far, just to see the circle origin. That was an awesome part of the first game, made Origins a bit special compared to the other Bioware games I played. I think it has been the sole game of theirs I own that gave the option to be something other than a human.

[Galbrant]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Question what was the ratio of the races played in origins?

According to Bioware telemetry, 80% of players chose Human origins, 15% - Elven origins (with the Elven Mage being the most popular) and 5% - Dwarven origins. This accounts for all registered playthroughs ever started, but not for playthroughs on unconnected consoles.

According to Silverman, "Overall, 18 percent of everyone who plays Mass Effect plays it with a female character."

What we don't know is how many Dragon Age and DA II players used a female character. I expect it would be a bit higher than ME's percentage both because of marketing and different player demographics.

Wow.... did not expect that big of a ratio. I can't say I blame Bioware, then. I still want me Dwarves though,  I guess they need to expand the selection of beards. I remember I didn't like most of them. Yeah design better beards Bioware. The Dwarf is only as good as the stature of his beard! Hell make Morgan Freeman voice the male dwarf character... that will certainly convince people the Dwarves are the vastly superior race. 

[Mantaal]

Galbrant wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Question what was the ratio of the races played in origins?

According to Bioware telemetry, 80% of players chose Human origins, 15% - Elven origins (with the Elven Mage being the most popular) and 5% - Dwarven origins. This accounts for all registered playthroughs ever started, but not for playthroughs on unconnected consoles.

According to Silverman, "Overall, 18 percent of everyone who plays Mass Effect plays it with a female character."

What we don't know is how many Dragon Age and DA II players used a female character. I expect it would be a bit higher than ME's percentage both because of marketing and different player demographics.

Wow.... did not expect that big of a ratio. I can't say I blame Bioware, then. I still want me Dwarves though,  I guess they need to expand the selection of beards. I remember I didn't like most of them. Yeah design better beards Bioware. The Dwarf is only as good as the stature of his beard! Hell make Morgan Freeman voice the male dwarf character... that will certainly convince people the Dwarves are the vastly superior race. 

I still blame them. If you start with that you could do as the OP said. Just remove everything out of the game people dont play the most. 
So we will end up playing all Male Human Warriors with no side quests, using one single weapon on difficult easy. And we get this game without an End since the statistics says there are many players didnt finish the game. And yeah you can only visit one place since the most peoples spend the most time in this one place. (Ah heck.. that what DA2 did already) 

How about some other Statistics? DA2 got a Metacritc voting of 4.3. Well since the most peoples not seem to like DA2 how about we skip DA3 at all? Isnt that what Bioware wants? Skip stuff peoples dont like the most?

Well just to say it clear. Pre DA2 i did preorder every Bioware game without even a doubt
After DA2 i was very neutral about a DA3. Since i know it will not have different playable Races i tend to not buy it. But i will still watch videos, previews and Demos. If i see one flying Platewarrior, swinging a 3 meter Sword with one hand, Teleporting Rogues making enemys explode with a dagger or an Arrow or one epileptic Mage im outa here forever and spend my money and time on games thats worth it. 

Modifié par Mantaal, 14 janvier 2013 - 10:49 .

[Galbrant]

Maybe if they add classes that Dwarves and Elves can promote to that Humans couldn't be and maybe encourage the player can be something other than a generic human,. Then again the Human Noble wasn't that generic. Oh and I don't remember since I haven't played in a couple years I think did the races has some racial skills or pass.... Wait to the wiki!... hmm only see starting skills that can also get later with other races and class. Well... since Dwarfs can't use Magic why not have them have a bonus against Magic maybe even a 10% chance of taking no damage at all or something like that.

[SparksMKII]

Always do my 1st playthrough as a human so not a big deal for me. Disappointed but not surprised is the best way I can word my feelings about a human only protagonist at the moment.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mantaal wrote...


I still blame them. If you start with that you could do as the OP said. Just remove everything out of the game people dont play the most.
So we will end up playing all Male Human Warriors with no side quests, using one single weapon on difficult easy. And we get this game without an End since the statistics says there are many players didnt finish the game. And yeah you can only visit one place since the most peoples spend the most time in this one place. (Ah heck.. that what DA2 did already) 

So your argument rests on reducing something to an illogical absurd. Ooookay.

I mean, one would think you'd be prepared to admit that games have only limited amount of content they can do at all, let alone well. The natural recognition from that would be that some things will need to be priorities and others not... and a third-order effect would be that the relative costs of various options would be something worth considering in deciding on what to focus on and what to not.

But hey, apparently it's less of a slippery slope to you and an elevator. Chills.

Well just to say it clear. Pre DA2 i did preorder every Bioware game without even a doubt
After DA2 i was very neutral about a DA3. Since i know it will not have different playable Races i tend to not buy it. But i will still watch videos, previews and Demos. If i see one flying Platewarrior, swinging a 3 meter Sword with one hand, Teleporting Rogues making enemys explode with a dagger or an Arrow or one epileptic Mage im outa here forever and spend my money and time on games thats worth it. 

Okay. Bye.

[Nerevar-as]

Galbrant wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

Question what was the ratio of the races played in origins?

According to Bioware telemetry, 80% of players chose Human origins, 15% - Elven origins (with the Elven Mage being the most popular) and 5% - Dwarven origins. This accounts for all registered playthroughs ever started, but not for playthroughs on unconnected consoles.

According to Silverman, "Overall, 18 percent of everyone who plays Mass Effect plays it with a female character."

What we don't know is how many Dragon Age and DA II players used a female character. I expect it would be a bit higher than ME's percentage both because of marketing and different player demographics.

Wow.... did not expect that big of a ratio. I can't say I blame Bioware, then. I still want me Dwarves though,  I guess they need to expand the selection of beards. I remember I didn't like most of them. Yeah design better beards Bioware. The Dwarf is only as good as the stature of his beard! Hell make Morgan Freeman voice the male dwarf character... that will certainly convince people the Dwarves are the vastly superior race. 

Now forget the % and calculate the actual numbers. Even the 5% of NM players results in tens of thousands of people. Expressing that in % and use it to dismiss those players´ preferences is not the way to go.

[Dean_the_Young]

Who's dismissing?

They aren't exactly working on a shoe-string minimalist budget, but they still have to have trade-offs. If they think they can give something less exclusive that even that 5% could enjoy (such as better/more companion interactions, more back-story relevance of a smaller number of origins, etc.), then why shouldn't they avoid things that less than 5% actually prefer? After all, even amongst that 5% many might also have a different preference catered to by the exchange... and that exchange could appeal to a lot more than 5%.

Not being prioritized isn't the same as being dismissed.

[Sidney]

Race did not matter in 98% of DAO. For most of the game, the overwhelming chunk of it, all race mattered was what character model you had.

That to me is the problem with "race" in almost any game it really isn't anything other than a hair color. Didn't matter in BG2, not in NWN, didn't matter in any of TES games I ever found. Plenty of games have been great w/o selections: KoTOR, TW1/2, Fallout1/2/3/NV.

I'd love to see a story based around an elf in Thedas to explore what it means to be an elf other than having 1 line of dialog about "knife ears" every 10 hours in a game.

[Nelatherion]

batlin wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Nobody is forcing you to buy the game. If the race you play is all you care about I'd suggest DOTA 2 or League of Legends. There's about a hundred different heroes/champions in either of those games- that should keep you occupied.

It would be for more reasons than only the race options, but I might pass on this game, yeah. And if DA2's sales figures were any indication, so will a lot of other people.

Really? Sweet, well here is the door. 

Bye! 

[Mantaal]

Sidney wrote...

Race did not matter in 98% of DAO. For most of the game, the overwhelming chunk of it, all race mattered was what character model you had.

That to me is the problem with "race" in almost any game it really isn't anything other than a hair color. Didn't matter in BG2, not in NWN, didn't matter in any of TES games I ever found. Plenty of games have been great w/o selections: KoTOR, TW1/2, Fallout1/2/3/NV.

I'd love to see a story based around an elf in Thedas to explore what it means to be an elf other than having 1 line of dialog about "knife ears" every 10 hours in a game.

You forgot to say "to me it did not matter"

For me its one of the most important things, class and Race combinations is the first thing i look at an RPG. Sure there are RPGs out there without it. I like The witcher and KoToR. But they are nothing against NwN and BG2 .. wich had different races.  

[Mantaal]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Mantaal wrote...


I still blame them. If you start with that you could do as the OP said. Just remove everything out of the game people dont play the most.
So we will end up playing all Male Human Warriors with no side quests, using one single weapon on difficult easy. And we get this game without an End since the statistics says there are many players didnt finish the game. And yeah you can only visit one place since the most peoples spend the most time in this one place. (Ah heck.. that what DA2 did already) 

So your argument rests on reducing something to an illogical absurd. Ooookay.

I mean, one would think you'd be prepared to admit that games have only limited amount of content they can do at all, let alone well. The natural recognition from that would be that some things will need to be priorities and others not... and a third-order effect would be that the relative costs of various options would be something worth considering in deciding on what to focus on and what to not.

But hey, apparently it's less of a slippery slope to you and an elevator. Chills.

Well just to say it clear. Pre DA2 i did preorder every Bioware game without even a doubt
After DA2 i was very neutral about a DA3. Since i know it will not have different playable Races i tend to not buy it. But i will still watch videos, previews and Demos. If i see one flying Platewarrior, swinging a 3 meter Sword with one hand, Teleporting Rogues making enemys explode with a dagger or an Arrow or one epileptic Mage im outa here forever and spend my money and time on games thats worth it. 

Okay. Bye.

Oh this again? Poor EA.. cant affort to make good games anymore and make medicore games because they low on money.. my hearth is bleeding Maybe they should ask how the RPG developers the last 20 years did it to make good games without skipping important things? 

[Zanallen]

Mantaal wrote...

Oh this again? Poor EA.. cant affort to make good games anymore and make medicore games because they low on money.. my hearth is bleeding Maybe they should ask how the RPG developers the last 20 years did it to make good games without skipping important things? 

Since when is race choice important? Most RPGs don't feature it. Hell, most Bioware games don't even feature it.

[Urazz]

I think part of the decision to have a human only protagonist is due to the story and the percentage of people that play the game.

Storywise, the main part of the Dragon Age universe is about human nations and human problems. Dwarfs, elfs, and qunari do have major aspects in the overall storyline but they aren't capable of being more than sidequests or a smaller part of the story.

Look at Dragon Age: Origins as an example. Sure you can pick different races for your character but the main storyline has always been about the humans and their problems.

Really, I don't think the making your character portion of the game is really all that important.  For me, it's always been about the story of the game in RPGs.

Modifié par Urazz, 14 janvier 2013 - 02:56 .

[Mantaal]

Zanallen wrote...

Mantaal wrote...

Oh this again? Poor EA.. cant affort to make good games anymore and make medicore games because they low on money.. my hearth is bleeding Maybe they should ask how the RPG developers the last 20 years did it to make good games without skipping important things? 

Since when is race choice important? Most RPGs don't feature it. Hell, most Bioware games don't even feature it.

Most RPGs dont feature it? Make your homework pls. And for the "since when" i would say since 1974. 

Modifié par Mantaal, 14 janvier 2013 - 03:06 .

[ianvillan]

Urazz wrote...

I think part of the decision to have a human only protagonist is due to the story and the percentage of people that play the game.

Storywise, the main part of the Dragon Age universe is about human nations and human problems. Dwarfs, elfs, and qunari do have major aspects in the overall storyline but they aren't capable of being more than sidequests or a smaller part of the story.

Look at Dragon Age: Origins as an example. Sure you can pick different races for your character but the main storyline has always been about the humans and their problems.

Really, I don't think the making your character portion of the game is really all that important.  For me, it's always been about the story of the game in RPGs.

Why aren't Dwarfs, Elves or Qunari capable of being more than sidequests or a bigger part of the story, Bioware has created a huge world with lots of lore and diverse races yet the only stories possible to tell are ones that involve Humans. Surely a company of Biowares quality could create major stories that the other races are the main characters.

[Plaintiff]

Mantaal wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Mantaal wrote...

Oh this again? Poor EA.. cant affort to make good games anymore and make medicore games because they low on money.. my hearth is bleeding Maybe they should ask how the RPG developers the last 20 years did it to make good games without skipping important things? 

Since when is race choice important? Most RPGs don't feature it. Hell, most Bioware games don't even feature it.

Most RPGs dont feature it? Make your homework pls. And for the "since when" i would say since 1974. 

There are tabletop and other early forms of RPGs besides Dungeons and Dragons. A lot of them aren't even medieval-inspired fantasy (le gasp!), and yes, there are plenty where your only option is to play as a human. Call of Cthulhu comes to mind, and the 'Fighting Fantasy' gamebooks, which were solo-player RPGs that usually provided a fixed backstory.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 janvier 2013 - 03:20 .