91 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicTragedy]

 I just want Alistar to be King without Anora. Is it possible to do both this and force Loghain to serve in the Grey Wardens?

If not, why was this option specifically made impossible? It's probably the most appealing to me =(

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 12 janvier 2013 - 09:37 .

[Addai]

No, in order to recruit Loghain and not have Alistair run off to be a drunk or get his head lopped off, he has to marry Anora.

Why... well, life is full of disappointments. Alistair and Anora make a good ruling pair if he's hardened, so I think it's a good outcome, if not the best thing for his personal happiness. As duty bound as Alistair is, though, I think he will get some satisfaction from being a good king and seeing the country recover.

[EpicTragedy]

I can't let Anora hold Alistar back, she is barren and not trustworthy. I won't kill Loghain though.

My new question - 

What is the difference between hardened and not hardened Alistar ruling alone as king without Anora?

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 12 janvier 2013 - 09:51 .

[sylvanaerie]

EpicTragedy wrote...

I can't let Anora hold Alistar back, she is barren and not trustworthy. I won't kill Loghain though.

My new question - 

What is the difference between hardened and not hardened Alistar ruling alone as king without Anora?

Unhardened Alistair doesn't want to be king, he hates it.  Epilogue slides say he's always running off to get drunk and goof off leaving the ruling to (Eamon, the Warden, Anora) someone else who's actually calling the shots.  This is the perfect scenario for the ambitious Warden to grab at being the 'power behind the throne' with a puppet king.

Hardened Alistair does a good job being king, he actually learns about governing (especially if you put him with Anora) and does a much better job.  He still doesn't want to be king, but he seems to handle it better and take some satisfaction out of being king, whether with Anora or without.

If you don't kill Loghain, your only option to keep Alistair around is marry him to Anora--an option only available if you've hardened him.  Unhardened Alistair will look at you and ask if you're insane.  You've ruined your friendship and he will leave the party but the game is almost over anyway and you only see Alistair once more at the Post Coronation ceremony.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 12 janvier 2013 - 10:01 .

[gneisenau556]

If you do the harden Alistar and recruit Loghain, in Awakening you will see that your friendship with Alistar isn't ruined.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And if you harden him, recruit Loghain, and have Loghain do the Ulitmate Sacrifice, Alistair's not even mad anymore by the time of the Coronation.

[theskymoves]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And if you harden him, recruit Loghain, and have Loghain do the Ulitmate Sacrifice, Alistair's not even mad anymore by the time of the Coronation.

He was still pretty steamed at my Surana, under those circumstances... I wonder if it is dependant on whether the Warden had been romancing him? 

[sylvanaerie]

theskymoves wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And if you harden him, recruit Loghain, and have Loghain do the Ulitmate Sacrifice, Alistair's not even mad anymore by the time of the Coronation.

He was still pretty steamed at my Surana, under those circumstances... I wonder if it is dependant on whether the Warden had been romancing him? 

Alistair is still pissed at the warden, though probably less so as long as Loghain is dead.  Other people just want to read into his words what they want.

Dialogue notes in the toolset (for delivery during the Post Coronation) all describe his lines as "Bitter, sarcastic and there is some bad blood between him and the player".

As for Awakenings, a player can import a dead warden to play that...so take that as you wish...though it has been 6 months, I doubt Alistair would ever feel the same camaraderie for the Warden they once had.  Drunken Alistair in DA2 doesn't look to friendly toward the warden.  

In other words, the friendship was ruined.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 13 janvier 2013 - 01:30 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

sylvanaerie wrote...

theskymoves wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And if you harden him, recruit Loghain, and have Loghain do the Ulitmate Sacrifice, Alistair's not even mad anymore by the time of the Coronation.

He was still pretty steamed at my Surana, under those circumstances... I wonder if it is dependant on whether the Warden had been romancing him? 

Alistair is still pissed at the warden, though probably less so as long as Loghain is dead.  Other people just want to read into his words what they want.

Brb, I need to replay that bit. I could have sworn he said he was mostly over it.

Edit: Found it on youtube, and yeah, there's definite sarcasm. It's just less bitter. I think I got confused last time when he said he's not angry about being made king, this time less sarcastically. Sorry about that. At any rate, he's still less noticeably ticked off than he is if Loghain lives.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 janvier 2013 - 01:38 .

[TEWR]

I can't let Anora hold Alistar back, she is barren and not trustworthy

There's actually more evidence to say Cailan was firing blanks then that Anora was barren. Cailan was known to have mistresses, but you never hear of him having fathered any bastards.

And she is trustworthy.

[theskymoves]

Even her father says Anora isn't trustworthy. *fires up toolset*

Warden: I knew I shouldn't have trusted her.
Loghain: (response differs, depending on who sided with who at the Landsmeet) It took you this long to determine that? I'm surprised. / Anora's only real loyalty is to herself. She's capable and determined, but she'll sacrifice anything for her own goals. Remember that. / You should have known that when she made her appearance at the Landsmeet. This is hardly news.

[Addai]

Alistair hates your guts. He's just more polite about it.

Why do you need a politician to be trustworthy? That's like saying you want a doctor who isn't good with his hands. Harden Alistair and he will be a good partner for Anora.

[EpicTragedy]

Addai67 wrote...

Alistair hates your guts. He's just more polite about it.

Why do you need a politician to be trustworthy? That's like saying you want a doctor who isn't good with his hands. Harden Alistair and he will be a good partner for Anora.

Only if you think that to be a a good politician, you must be untrustworthy. As a joke, I get where you're coming from, but I don't seriously thing being untrustworthy is what makes someone a good politician or not. Just because a lot of politicians descriptively are untrustworthy doesn't mean they normatively ought to be so.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I can't let Anora hold Alistar back, she is barren and not trustworthy

There's actually more evidence to say Cailan was firing blanks then that Anora was barren. Cailan was known to have mistresses, but you never hear of him having fathered any bastards.

And she is trustworthy.

The fact that she would execute Alistar if she is made sole ruler says enough about what type of person she is such that I don't want her in a position of power at all. Alistar just deserves better.

What you say about Cailan may be true, but we'll never know.

As to her being trustworthy, I just can't agree with that.

I think I'm going to go with harden Alistar, promote him as sole king, and not execute Loghain (unfortunately resulting in Alistar doing it). At least Alistar won't execute Anora, as she would do to him were she in his place.

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:26 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EpicTragedy wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Alistair hates your guts. He's just more polite about it.

Why do you need a politician to be trustworthy? That's like saying you want a doctor who isn't good with his hands. Harden Alistair and he will be a good partner for Anora.

Only if you think that to be a a good politician, you must be untrustworthy. As a joke, I get where you're coming from, but I don't seriously thing being untrustworthy is what makes someone a good politician or not. Just because a lot of politicians descriptively are untrustworthy doesn't mean they normatively ought to be so.

I took a History of American Foreign Policy class last semester. Let's just say the US didn't get where it is by being trustworthy and keeping agreements. For something more relevant to Thedas, Celene doesn't seem to have either.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I can't let Anora hold Alistar back, she is barren and not trustworthy

There's actually more evidence to say Cailan was firing blanks then that Anora was barren. Cailan was known to have mistresses, but you never hear of him having fathered any bastards.

And she is trustworthy.

The fact that she would execute Alistar if she is made sole ruler says enough about what type of person she is such that I don't want her in a position of power at all. Alistar just deserves better.

She executes Alistair if you spare Loghain. If you kill Loghain, Anora decides that that was his main issue, and doesn't try to punish him out of pragmatism.

What you say about Cailan may be true, but we'll never know.

I don't remember the running across the exact dialogue, but I hear it this one enough that said dialogue probably exists.

As to her being trustworthy, I just can't agree with that.

She can be trusted to do as she thinks best for Ferelden. If you show a willingness to work with her and not incontinently kill her father, that goes a long way. If you don't, what were you expecting?

I think I'm going to go with harden Alistar, promote him as sole king, and not execute Loghain (unfortunately resulting in Alistar doing it). At least Alistar won't execute Anora, as she would do to him were she in his place.

What I took from the dialogue surrounding hardened Alistair's decision to not execute Anora was "I might die in battle, so you get to live for as long as there's some chance of that happening. And you better hope it does."

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:12 .

[EpicTragedy]

[quote]Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

[quote]EpicTragedy wrote...

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

Alistair hates your guts. He's just more polite about it.

Why do you need a politician to be trustworthy? That's like saying you want a doctor who isn't good with his hands. Harden Alistair and he will be a good partner for Anora.[/quote]

Only if you think that to be a a good politician, you must be untrustworthy. As a joke, I get where you're coming from, but I don't seriously thing being untrustworthy is what makes someone a good politician or not. Just because a lot of politicians descriptively are untrustworthy doesn't mean they normatively ought to be so.[/quote]

I took a History of American Foreign Policy class last semester. Let's just say the US didn't get where it is by being trustworthy and keeping agreements. For something more relevant to Thedas, Celene doesn't seem to have either.[/quote]

Citing two examples of untrustyworthy politicians in no way conflicts with my point.

[quote]
[quote]
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]I can't let Anora hold Alistair back, she is barren and not trustworthy[/quote]

There's actually more evidence to say Cailan was firing blanks then that Anora was barren. Cailan was known to have mistresses, but you never hear of him having fathered any bastards.

And she is trustworthy.[/quote]

The fact that she would execute Alistair if she is made sole ruler says enough about what type of person she is such that I don't want her in a position of power at all. Alistair just deserves better. [/quote]

She executes Alistair if you spare Loghain. If you kill Loghain, Anora decides that that was his main issue, and doesn't try to punish him out of pragmatism.

[/quote]

I'm aware of that and it changes nothing about what it says about her character.

[quote]
[quote]
What you say about Cailan may be true, but we'll never know.
[/quote]

I don't remember the running across the exact dialogue, but I hear it this one enough that said dialogue probably exists.
[/quote]

I conceded already that even if such a dialogue exists, we still can't know for sure who was responsible with the limited vidence we have.

[quote]
[quote]
As to her being trustworthy, I just can't agree with that.[/quote]

She can be trusted to do as she thinks best for Ferelden. If you show a willingness to work with her and not incontinently kill her father, that goes a long way. If you don't, what were you expecting?
[/quote]

Executing Alistair isn't what is best for Ferelden, it's what is best for her. She could just as easily imprisoned him as he does to her in her shoes instead of mercilessly execute him, which she clearly confesses to (I will give her that).



[quote]
[quote]
I think I'm going to go with harden Alistair, promote him as sole king, and not execute Loghain (unfortunately resulting in Alistair doing it). At least Alistair won't execute Anora, as she would do to him were she in his place.
[/quote]

What I took from the dialogue surrounding hardened Alistair's decision to not execute Anora was "I might die in battle, so you get to live for as long as there's some chance of that happening. And you better hope it does."[/quote]

Even so, this results from Anora refusing to swear fealty and abandon her claim to the throne. She forces Alistair's hand here. When Anora executes Alistar, it is after he publicly abandons his claim to the throne and just wants to leave, yet she executes him anyways.

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 13 janvier 2013 - 11:35 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

[quote]EpicTragedy wrote...

[quote]Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

[quote]EpicTragedy wrote...


Only if you think that to be a a good politician, you must be untrustworthy. As a joke, I get where you're coming from, but I don't seriously thing being untrustworthy is what makes someone a good politician or not. Just because a lot of politicians descriptively are untrustworthy doesn't mean they normatively ought to be so.[/quote]

I took a History of American Foreign Policy class last semester. Let's just say the US didn't get where it is by being trustworthy and keeping agreements. For something more relevant to Thedas, Celene doesn't seem to have either.[/quote]

Citing two examples of untrustyworthy politicians in no way conflicts with my point.[/quote]

Not by itself, but these two (or more than that, really, since we started at the Revolution and ended halfway through the Cold War) were sucessful. Celene gets in trouble later, but for not outright invading Ferelden. (Either for moral reasons, or just because it's not economically efficient, I don't know if the book makes that clear.)

[quote]
[quote]


She executes Alistair if you spare Loghain. If you kill Loghain, Anora decides that that was his main issue, and doesn't try to punish him out of pragmatism.

[/quote]

I'm aware of that and it changes nothing about what it says about her character. [/quote]

It shows she's aware that revenge is a sucker's game. That's got to count for something.

[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
What you say about Cailan may be true, but we'll never know.
[/quote]

I don't remember the running across the exact dialogue, but I hear it this one enough that said dialogue probably exists.
[/quote]

I conceded already that even if such a dialogue exists, we still can't know for sure who was responsible with the limited vidence we have. [/quote]

You mean for the rumor, or for Cailan having mistresses?

[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
As to her being trustworthy, I just can't agree with that.[/quote]

She can be trusted to do as she thinks best for Ferelden. If you show a willingness to work with her and not incontinently kill her father, that goes a long way. If you don't, what were you expecting?
[/quote]

Executing Alistar isn't what is best for Ferelden, it's what is best for her. She could just as easily imprisoned him as he does to her in her shoes instead of mercilessly execute him, which she clearly confesses to (I will give her that). [/quote]

Not while he's outright claiming to her throne, and has the claim by blood. Both their claims are shaky, but I think Alistair's is a good deal less so. (Note that if you talk her into exiling him, there's a rebellion in his name. Since he's grabbed out of Kirkwall by a known symapthizer during Dragon Age II, I think he might even have been involved.)

Also, see below on him imprisoning her.

[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
I think I'm going to go with harden Alistar, promote him as sole king, and not execute Loghain (unfortunately resulting in Alistar doing it). At least Alistar won't execute Anora, as she would do to him were she in his place.
[/quote]

What I took from the dialogue surrounding hardened Alistair's decision to not execute Anora was "I might die in battle, so you get to live for as long as there's some chance of that happening. And you better hope it does."[/quote]


[/quote]

I don't think he was hardened in that one.

Try here, at 5:25.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 janvier 2013 - 11:52 .

[EpicTragedy]

Sorry, I updated the last two points in my last post and put the video in the right context as evidence that Anora herself admits she wouldn't be as merciful to Alistair as he is to her.

It doesn't matter that those two examples are successful though. My point still stands that you don't have to be untrustyworthy to be a good politician. That in no way implies that a successful politician can't be untrustworthy, which is an entirely separate point I am not arguing for that your exampels seem more relevant to.

It does count for something, but not enough.

Either the rumor or having mistresses could exist in-game and it still wouldn't be enough to pin Cailan as being the infertile party. The only way we could know for sure that it was Cailan's fault and not Anora's is if in a future game, Anora ends up pregnant. Whatever the case though, this isn't the prime reason I don't want her on the throne, with or without Alistair. Her character is the prime reason.

If she imprisoned him after forcing him to renounce his claim and is actually doing what is best for Fereldan, it becomes difficult to imagine a rebellion in his name taking place.

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 14 janvier 2013 - 12:01 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EpicTragedy wrote...

Sorry, I updated the post and put the video in the right context just as evidence that Anora herself admits she wouldn't be as merciful to Alistair as he is to her.

It doesn't matter that those to examples are successful though. My point still stands that you don't have to be untrustyworthy to be a good politician.

Fair enough. I've been editing too, be careful responding.

As for your counterpoint, no, I guess you don't have to be untrustworthy to be a good politician, but it helps. We could have gotten sucked into another war with France shortly after their Revolution, only we ignored a treaty that required us to aid them when basically every monarch in Europe panicked and sent killers into the country. For another example, all those treaties that started WWI? If they'd been ignored the way we ignored that one, it would just have been Russia intervening in the Balkans. Instead, it was a whole lot of bloodshed and France, Germany and Russia almost getting destroyed.

If the mistresses exist and the bastards don't, and I'm not 100%, then they're weak to moderate evidence that Cailan was infertile. Or, Gaider points out that they could just have been unlucky.

Doing what's best doesn't necessarily preclude having discontents try to oust you.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 janvier 2013 - 12:04 .

[EpicTragedy]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

EpicTragedy wrote...

Sorry, I updated the post and put the video in the right context just as evidence that Anora herself admits she wouldn't be as merciful to Alistair as he is to her.

It doesn't matter that those to examples are successful though. My point still stands that you don't have to be untrustyworthy to be a good politician.

Fair enough. I've been editing too, be careful responding.

As for your counterpoint, no, I guess you don't have to be untrustworthy to be a good politician, but it helps. We could have gotten sucked into another war with France shortly after their Revolution, only we ignored a treaty that required us to aid them when basically every monarch in Europe panicked and sent killers into the country. For another example, all those treaties that started WWI? If they'd been ignored the way we ignored that one, it would just have been Russia intervening in the Balkans. Instead, it was a whole lot of bloodshed and France, Germany and Russia almost getting destroyed.

If the mistresses exist and the bastards don't, and I'm not 100%, then they're weak to moderate evidence that Cailan was infertile. Or, Gaider points out that they could just have been unlucky.

Doing what's best doesn't necessarily preclude having discontents try to oust you.

Those treaties were not honored out of a sense of trustworthiness in WW1. They were merely pretexts for war and were more about self-preservation in maintaining the balance of power than they were about the monarchs exhibiting trustworthy characters. Germany intervened on Austria-Hungary's behalf against Russia because it was in their best interest to protect their closest ally. France intervened on Russia's behalf against Germany because it was in their best interest to prevent Germany from getting any stronger than they already had become in the last half century, and possibly even have a chance to reclaim Alsace-Lorraine should they defeat Germany. These interventions happened for a plethora of reasons. Monarchs, trustworthy or not, is moot in this example.

I never disputed that they weren't evidence, only that they weren't proof. We can't get proof unless Anora ends up pregnant, and even then it only proves that Anora wasn't barren, not that Cailan was barren (although the evidence at that point would be extremely strong).

My point is that Alistair isn't even willing to execute Anora when she actively states that she will never give up her or her children's claim to the throne. Anora actively orders the execution Alistair even when he states that he just wants to leave.

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 14 janvier 2013 - 12:11 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

EpicTragedy wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

EpicTragedy wrote...

Sorry, I updated the post and put the video in the right context just as evidence that Anora herself admits she wouldn't be as merciful to Alistair as he is to her.

It doesn't matter that those to examples are successful though. My point still stands that you don't have to be untrustyworthy to be a good politician.

Fair enough. I've been editing too, be careful responding.

As for your counterpoint, no, I guess you don't have to be untrustworthy to be a good politician, but it helps. We could have gotten sucked into another war with France shortly after their Revolution, only we ignored a treaty that required us to aid them when basically every monarch in Europe panicked and sent killers into the country. For another example, all those treaties that started WWI? If they'd been ignored the way we ignored that one, it would just have been Russia intervening in the Balkans. Instead, it was a whole lot of bloodshed and France, Germany and Russia almost getting destroyed.

If the mistresses exist and the bastards don't, and I'm not 100%, then they're weak to moderate evidence that Cailan was infertile. Or, Gaider points out that they could just have been unlucky.

Doing what's best doesn't necessarily preclude having discontents try to oust you.

Those treaties were not honored out of a sense of trustworthiness in WW1. They were merely pretexts for war and were more about self-preservation in maintaining the balance of power than they were about the monarchs exhibiting trustworthy characters.

You're probably right there, but if the politicians were acting to not betray each other's trust, they'd have ended up doing the same thing.

I never disputed that they weren't evidence, only that they weren't proof.

Well, they're not. But you're first post on this matter indicated that you thought Anora to be the infertile one. I was just pointing out that of the two, Cailan's more likely.

My point is that Alistair isn't even willing to execute Anora when she actively states that she will never give up her or her children's claim to the throne. Anora actively orders the execution Alistair even when he states that he just wants to leave.

Well, again, see how that turns out if she spares him.

[TEWR]

The fact that she would execute Alistair if she is made sole ruler says enough about what type of person she is such that I don't want her in a position of power at all. Alistair just deserves better

Politically, that is the best move -- sad as it is for Alistair in that scenario.

With him alive, people would seek to use him as incentive to launch a civil war to put "the last living Theirin" on the throne.

It would tear the nation apart in the future. Anora wants to ensure the realm is secure, safe, and strong.

That's why marrying the two of them together is the best option. The people get a Theirin on the throne and have Anora's brains leading them. Better will that option be if the Warden so hardens Alistair before the event.

[EpicTragedy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The fact that she would execute Alistair if she is made sole ruler says enough about what type of person she is such that I don't want her in a position of power at all. Alistair just deserves better

Politically, that is the best move -- sad as it is for Alistair in that scenario.

With him alive, people would seek to use him as incentive to launch a civil war to put "the last living Theirin" on the throne.

It would tear the nation apart in the future. Anora wants to ensure the realm is secure, safe, and strong.

That's why marrying the two of them together is the best option. The people get a Theirin on the throne and have Anora's brains leading them. Better will that option be if the Warden so hardens Alistair before the event.

It would only have the potential to tear the nation apart in the future if Alistair both
1. Decided he wanted to press his claim, which he has clearly displayed no interest in, and
2. Was somehow able to garner enough support, which would require Anora to be doing a pretty poor job

Anora executing him simply isn't justified. It's a clearly selfish and morally corrupt decision given the presence of alternative solutions (the apple didn't fall far from the tree in this situation).

You don't need Anora's brains, hardened Alistar will take his rule seriously and there are plenty of intelligent advisors at his disposal whose character is not questionable (Teagan, Eamon, Warden, etc) such that they aren't willing to sacrifice anything to preserve their own authority as Anora would.

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 14 janvier 2013 - 03:49 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Before this goes any farther, I wanted ask whether you're aware the epilogue states there was a rebellion in Alistair's name in the event of the Drunkistair ending? And that it's unclear he was involved? (I tend to think he was, since Teagan, a known symapthizer, grabs Alistair from Kirkwall and that I have trouble believing that's coincidence. If he's not involved, of course, that just proves our point even further. If he doesn't even have to press his claim to be a threat...)

Nor does the fact that he can gather support mean she's doing a bad job. It means there's discontent, which is evidence but not proof of your claim. It's pretty weak evidence, too, since making right decisions for the country as a whole can still injure certain interests. I don't remember if it says how the discontent came about, and I didn't know to make backup saves to recheck my epilogue during my first playthrough, so if someone else wants to say something about that slide, please do.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:45 .

[Addai]

Like it or not, amoral dicks get things done. Anora's not amoral but she's definitely got a ruthless streak, like her father. That is useful in a ruler if combined with brains and diplomatic tact, which she also has. She's not a perfect candidate, but that's because the writers wrote her well, to be human.

Alistair does become a lightning rod for one rebellion, but I don't consider that a serious threat. Anora's not wrong in her demand but it is definitely not her finest hour. Neither is her refusal to swear fealty to him if the Landsmeet decides against her.

The fact that one of them is wasted and so is Loghain is the biggest argument for having them marry. It's better for the country all around. There's not going to be an heir no matter who's on the throne, Bioware has made that pretty clear. Though full disclosure, my canon game is Alistair ruling alone with a Warden mistress as chancellor.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:58 .

[EpicTragedy]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Before this goes any farther, I wanted ask whether you're aware the epilogue states there was a rebellion in Alistair's name in the event of the Drunkistair ending? And that it's unclear he was involved? (I tend to think he was, since Teagan, a known symapthizer, grabs Alistair from Kirkwall and that I have trouble believing that's coincidence. If he's not involved, of course, that just proves our point even further. If he doesn't even have to press his claim to be a threat...)

Nor does the fact that he can gather support mean she's doing a bad job. It means there's discontent, which is evidence but not proof of your claim. It's pretty weak evidence, too, since making right decisions for the country as a whole can still injure certain interests. I don't remember if it says how the discontent came about, and I didn't know to make backup saves to recheck my epilogue during my first playthrough, so if someone else wants to say something about that slide, please do.

Yes, someone mentioned that earlier in the thread. This is the specifics:
"A short rebellion borrowing his name occurs a year later but no evidence is found linking it to him."

Fair enough regarding the motives for such a rebellion possibly just being a discontented party. However, if she truly is doing her job well, I find it extremely hard to believe that such a rebellion will ever garner enough popular support to be a threat to her. It by no means tears the country apart as suggested.

Further, Alistar is definitely not involved with the rebellion (or at least not in the sense you would like to think he is). The previous epilogue above continues:
"A haggard drunk somewhat matching Alistair's description eventually surfaces at a tavern claiming to have once been a Grey Warden and a prince."

The "small" rebellion you speak of then takes place prior to Alistair leaving Kirkwall.

Anora executing Alistar is just evil, there is no way around it. She doesn't even have a claim on the throne. She is just trying to look out for herself and claims to be doing so in the name of Fereldan (just like her Father).

Modifié par EpicTragedy, 14 janvier 2013 - 05:28 .