89 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

me0120 wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

It is possible to break LoS after cloaking, and lose enemies following you. No source, just experience. I do it pretty regularly.

It's not simple, and takes more than "getting into cover", so it isn't perfect.

But you can lose pursers without re-coaking.

That can be done with any character. I do it frequently in solos.

Agree.

[Blarg]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

Things like this are one of the two reasons I come to BSN.

Thank you, Cyonan.

What's the other reason? 

And agreed, thanks Cyonan. 

Pure lulz. Trolls, spam, asterisks, and jokes about eating fools. That kind of thing.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

> Once an enemy has spotted you in cloak they always see you until you re-cloak

I didn't know this. This explains a few things. I thought they would lose you without needing to re-cloak if they saw you while invisible but then focused on someone else.

Actually... I have to disagree with this.

It is possible to break LoS after cloaking, and lose enemies following you. No source, just experience. I do it pretty regularly.

It's not simple, and takes more than "getting into cover", so it isn't perfect.

But you can lose pursers without re-coaking.

That's what I thought from my experience as well. I'm just slow to distrust Cyonan's word. Probably just needs to be worded differently.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

Things like this are one of the two reasons I come to BSN.

Thank you, Cyonan.

What's the other reason? 

And agreed, thanks Cyonan. 

Pure lulz. Trolls, spam, asterisks, and jokes about eating fools. That kind of thing.

*****What!?? I will eat you like lunch meat, fool!!*********

[Cyonan]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

> Once an enemy has spotted you in cloak they always see you until you re-cloak

I didn't know this. This explains a few things. I thought they would lose you without needing to re-cloak if they saw you while invisible but then focused on someone else.

Actually... I have to disagree with this.

It is possible to break LoS after cloaking, and lose enemies following you. No source, just experience. I do it pretty regularly.

It's not simple, and takes more than "getting into cover", so it isn't perfect.

But you can lose pursers without re-coaking.

That's what I thought from my experience as well. I'm just slow to distrust Cyonan's word. Probably just needs to be worded differently.

Yeah, I added a note to the OP.

What I really meant was that it is as if you don't have Cloak on anymore until you re-cloak. You can still lose pursuers by all the normal means.

[Computron2000]

Computron2000 wrote...
I have to test the "Once an enemy has spotted you in cloak they always see you until you re-cloak" part but i do remember several times where i have forced them to not see me after running past them (ie in melee range and activating their sight) by forcing a loss of LOS while in duration cloak

Ok i just tested in on Wave 1 Hydra/Cerberus/Gold and cloak still works. What happened is this

Killed everything except 1 trooper. Trooper at command center entrance (the one with the double ammo box). Cloaked, moved past the trooper ensuring trooper noticed me (as in shooting at me) to the ledge (the map glitch point jump off). Stopped, stood still. Trooper was shooting at the double ammo box. Decloaked. Trooper proceeded to readjust his targetting to my position at ledge.

So its up to when the retarget cycle happens even if you do not break the LOS.

Edit: Clarified that i was not at the map glitch but the ledge where peeps jump off to it. So distance is not the factor

Modifié par Computron2000, 13 janvier 2013 - 06:44 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Computron2000 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...
I have to test the "Once an enemy has spotted you in cloak they always see you until you re-cloak" part but i do remember several times where i have forced them to not see me after running past them (ie in melee range and activating their sight) by forcing a loss of LOS while in duration cloak

Ok i just tested in on Wave 1 Hydra/Cerberus/Gold and cloak still works. What happened is this

Killed everything except 1 trooper. Trooper at command center entrance (the one with the double ammo box). Cloaked, moved past the trooper ensuring trooper noticed me (as in shooting at me) to the ledge (the map glitch point jump off). Stopped, stood still. Trooper was shooting at the double ammo box. Decloaked. Trooper proceeded to readjust his targetting to my position at ledge.

So its up to when the retarget cycle happens even if you do not break the LOS.

Edit: Clarified that i was not at the map glitch but the ledge where peeps jump off to it. So distance is not the factor

That bears out my experience. I would have expected that if I had been deliberately trying to shake said trooper.

Although, obviously, I would have used additional corners/cover to reinforce the effect, but yes, even in short-movement scenarios, and with no other co-players, I have broken LoS without re-cloaking, and without necessarily using hard-cover or a Visual barrier to do so (as a  non-cloaked character would).

[Computron2000]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...
I have to test the "Once an enemy has spotted you in cloak they always see you until you re-cloak" part but i do remember several times where i have forced them to not see me after running past them (ie in melee range and activating their sight) by forcing a loss of LOS while in duration cloak

Ok i just tested in on Wave 1 Hydra/Cerberus/Gold and cloak still works. What happened is this

Killed everything except 1 trooper. Trooper at command center entrance (the one with the double ammo box). Cloaked, moved past the trooper ensuring trooper noticed me (as in shooting at me) to the ledge (the map glitch point jump off). Stopped, stood still. Trooper was shooting at the double ammo box. Decloaked. Trooper proceeded to readjust his targetting to my position at ledge.

So its up to when the retarget cycle happens even if you do not break the LOS.

Edit: Clarified that i was not at the map glitch but the ledge where peeps jump off to it. So distance is not the factor

That bears out my experience. I would have expected that if I had been deliberately trying to shake said trooper.

Although, obviously, I would have used additional corners/cover to reinforce the effect, but yes, even in short-movement scenarios, and with no other co-players, I have broken LoS without re-cloaking, and without necessarily using hard-cover or a Visual barrier to do so (as a  non-cloaked character would).

What you're talking about, Cyonan has already mentioned as correct and has amended his OP. What i was testing was using tact cloak while maintaining LOS to a single enemy (and thus he maintains LOS to you) at all times. This is to ensure that it is not due to other mechanics interfering and is truly just tact cloak vs 1 enemy

[ISHYGDDT]

I just wanted to say I knew this before it went mainstream.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Computron2000 wrote...

What you're talking about, Cyonan has already mentioned as correct and has amended his OP. What i was testing was using tact cloak while maintaining LOS to a single enemy (and thus he maintains LOS to you) at all times. This is to ensure that it is not due to other mechanics interfering and is truly just tact cloak vs 1 enemy

Um, I followed what you were saying. I was saying I have seen that for myself, as well.

[AkuIaTubShark]

Bookmarking for future TC Nerf threads.

[LegionofRannoch]

Cyonan is my hero.

[Computron2000]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

What you're talking about, Cyonan has already mentioned as correct and has amended his OP. What i was testing was using tact cloak while maintaining LOS to a single enemy (and thus he maintains LOS to you) at all times. This is to ensure that it is not due to other mechanics interfering and is truly just tact cloak vs 1 enemy

Um, I followed what you were saying. I was saying I have seen that for myself, as well.

Ok, sorry about that, the second part of your post had me confused that you were talking about losing LOS in cloak (which is already said to be true) while i was testing maintaining LOS while in cloak.

[koschwarz74]

I always said that the actual weight of weapons and the theoretical CD DOES matter.
The -200% CD bonus of TC can be an issue.

[Cyonan]

I'll look into the LoS Tactical Cloak thing after I'm done testing a potentially very harsh ammo bug.

I suspect that it's not purely visual but I want to run 1 more test.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Computron2000 wrote...

Ok, sorry about that, the second part of your post had me confused that you were talking about losing LOS in cloak (which is already said to be true) while i was testing maintaining LOS while in cloak.

It's a point that has been somewhat controversial. I have lost pursuers without actually placing a "physical" barrier between myself and the enemy, while still in a cloak I initiated while being observed by that enemy.

Most of the time, I would keep moving until I had crossed several barriers, and put as much distance up as possible, and zigged/zagged. The more actions taken to break pursuit, the harder you will be to find.

But on many occasions, I've lost pursers without actually having to hide behind a wall, or round a corner. It's not the norm, but cloak with movement alone is capable of doing it, from my experience.

I've never tested it formally, but I have witnessed it on many occasions. I believe the factors that determine where enemies will fire are, as you say cyclical, and as such, cloak can break their aim on you, even if only temporarily, with only minimal movement/relocation.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 13 janvier 2013 - 07:12 .

[me0120]

Cyonan wrote...

I'll look into the LoS Tactical Cloak thing after I'm done testing a potentially very harsh ammo bug.

I suspect that it's not purely visual but I want to run 1 more test.

 

I've got a question on one that should be easy to test. I'll pm you instead of cluttering up this thread though.

[Deerber]

Cyonan wrote...

I'll look into the LoS Tactical Cloak thing after I'm done testing a potentially very harsh ammo bug.

I suspect that it's not purely visual but I want to run 1 more test.

Why am I guessing that incendiary are even more bugged than everyone thinks? 

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan, though we disagree on many things in regards to tactical cloak, thank you for taking time to show people that if they exploit the enemy aggro mechanics, tactical cloak CAN be used for dumping aggro.

Many people of course do this completely unwittingly; then come to BSN and deny TC's ability to be used as an aggro dump.

[LegionofRannoch]

can the enemies just stop in their place and do nothing during extraction? cuz it happend to me..

solo /cerberus/silver/ghost/, shadow with black widow.

nothing moved until i shot at a phantom in view during the last 5 seconds.

[StrawHatMoose]

Interesting stuff here... Thanks Cyonan.

Modifié par StrawHatMoose, 13 janvier 2013 - 07:50 .

[Computron2000]

Annomander wrote...

Cyonan, though we disagree on many things in regards to tactical cloak, thank you for taking time to show people that if they exploit the enemy aggro mechanics, tactical cloak CAN be used for dumping aggro.

Many people of course do this completely unwittingly; then come to BSN and deny TC's ability to be used as an aggro dump.

Any class can dump aggro if you know how to finesse the LOS you know. I used to do that alot with the human engineer on solos and dumping aggro onto my combat drone.

[Cyonan]

Tested the Cloak LoS thing and I've found a lot similar to Computron.

> Once spotted, enemies will continue to target you until their next re-target cycle, which is roughly once every 3 seconds by my estimates.
> Once they re-target they will either target an ally or they will just fire at wherever you were when the re-target occurred.

OP has been updated.

[Cyonan]

Deerber wrote...
Why am I guessing that incendiary are even more bugged than everyone thinks? 

It's related to rate of fire, and up now(i was right about it not being visual) =P

LegionofRannoch wrote...

can the enemies just stop in their place and do nothing during extraction? cuz it happend to me..

solo /cerberus/silver/ghost/, shadow with black widow.

nothing moved until i shot at a phantom in view during the last 5 seconds.

I've noticed that the enemy AI can occasionally just break and they'll do nothing.

Shooting them tends to fix this =P

I've had this happen a few times immediately after enemies spawned but before they came onto the map, resulting in me being on an empty map with no enemies.

[BridgeBurner]

Cyonan wrote...

Deerber wrote...
Why am I guessing that incendiary are even more bugged than everyone thinks? 

It's related to rate of fire, and up now(i was right about it not being visual) =P

Let me guess.

Reegar + incendiary is a lot more bugged than we thought it was?