347 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

I don't see the point in arguing against this. It is a request to see more activity in the background or maybe asking another Wade and Herren couple who are more obvious.

Will it happen? If it ties to the story, sure. If not a part of the story, and they finish all the main points, maybe. Of course there are more important things to take care of in a video game, like gameplay and the plot, but asking for some more icing on the cake isn't really harmful to the development of the game. The chef may say, "sorry, unable to do that request," but it's not asking to change the filling.

[Maria Caliban]

FreshIstay wrote...

There are Hetero example' s and Homosexual example's, and they are not in equal standing in quantity, pretty acurate.

Maria & Motomo, you guys gave examples, but how about the one's that we can actually see, meaning both people actually together?

I can't help but think that's meaninglessly specific.

No, you never see Anora and the King stand by one another, but it's rather obvious they're in a straight relationship given that they're married.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:10 .

[Starfang]

I support this thread. I'd like to see all kinds of couples in the background of DAIII.<3

And if we all happen to be wearing fancy clothes and masks and dancing at one point, all the better! :innocent:

[RetroActiv]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

I don't see the point in arguing against this. It is a request to see more activity in the background or maybe asking another Wade and Herren couple who are more obvious.

Will it happen? If it ties to the story, sure. If not a part of the story, and they finish all the main points, maybe. Of course there are more important things to take care of in a video game, like gameplay and the plot, but asking for some more icing on the cake isn't really harmful to the development of the game. The chef may say, "sorry, unable to do that request," but it's not asking to change the filling.

You you don't see the point in arguing against it but point out that there are more important things for them to focus on. Well there you have it. While it may not directly be hurting anything it would just seem like a very forced and unnecessary waste of energy when Bioware should be focusing on things in the game that actually matter.

Modifié par RetroActiv, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:17 .

[Maria Caliban]

What more important things are there to focus on?

In DA II, there's a quest where a mage escapes the Kirkwall Circle just because he wants to dip his wick in a girl. If he's wanted to dip it in a dude, or he was a she wanting to hook up with another lady, how would it have changed that quest or its focus in the slightest?

[AlexanderCousland]

Maria Caliban wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

There are Hetero example' s and Homosexual example's, and they are not in equal standing in quantity, pretty acurate.

Maria & Motomo, you guys gave examples, but how about the one's that we can actually see, meaning both people actually together?

I can't help but think that's meaninglessly specific.

No, you never see Anora and the King stand by one another, but it's rather obvious they're in a straight relationship given that they're married.

Some have pointed out Homosexual npc's that are in relationships, im trying to understand whats wrong with the amount that has already been provided, considering they will probably include it anyway? 

[Sutekh]

RetroActiv wrote...

You you don't see the point in arguing against the but point out that there are more important things for them to focus. Well there you have it. While it may not directly be hurting anything it would just seem like a very forced and unnecessary waste of energy when Bioware should be focusing on things in the game that actually matter.

Good point, but focusing only on the necessary can lead to reasoning such as "no clutter in the scenary", which in turn leads to an empty, dull and lifeless world. Relationships in the background is a way of depicting the world by showing and not telling. If we include same sex ones, it shows the stance of Thedas on the subject (or a given country), we then know more about the world, and it becomes more "tangible" and alive. It is not necessary, but it does a lot to flesh out things.

[Daerog]

RetroActiv wrote...

You you don't see the point in arguing against the but point out that there are more important things for them to focus. Well there you have it. While it may not directly be hurting anything it would just seem like a very forced and unnecessary waste of energy when Bioware should be focusing on things in the game that actually matter.

Well, I agree that there are more important things to focus on, but I think the "they are represented enough, heteros are also uncommon" or whatever the point was kind of randomly put in just for the sake of opposing the OP, which is understandable, as I always have an urge to play devil's advocate to flesh out ideas.

Anyway, this also just reminds me of that thread earlier back where the OP said more races should be represented, or something. Ya, okay, that sounds nice, moving on to why DA2 seems to have ruined people's lives and DA:O is the holy of holies and to speak of its flaws is blashemy... or moving on to other stuff...

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:22 .

[Marvin_Arnold]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

...or maybe asking another Wade and Herren couple who are more obvious.

*cough* MORE obvious?

I think more obvious would mean the Warden interrupting them *boink*ing on the shop counter...

[RetroActiv]

It wouldn't have changed anything. It wouldn't have added anything either. My point is just that Bioware doesn't need to go out of their way to include "more" random same sex relationship content purely for the sake of throwing in more of it.

[LPPrince]

No one's suggesting they "need" to do anything.

We're just saying, it'd be nice if they added some of that stuff in the background.

[AlexanderCousland]

Sutekh wrote...

RetroActiv wrote...

You you don't see the point in arguing against the but point out that there are more important things for them to focus. Well there you have it. While it may not directly be hurting anything it would just seem like a very forced and unnecessary waste of energy when Bioware should be focusing on things in the game that actually matter.

Good point, but focusing only on the necessary can lead to reasoning such as "no clutter in the scenary", which in turn leads to an empty, dull and lifeless world. Relationships in the background is a way of depicting the world by showing and not telling. If we include same sex ones, it shows the stance of Thedas on the subject (or a given country), we then know more about the world, and it becomes more "tangible" and alive. It is not necessary, but it does a lot to flesh out things.

Have we not seen that Thedas accepts gay people? 

[Daerog]

Marvin_Arnold wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

...or maybe asking another Wade and Herren couple who are more obvious.

*cough* MORE obvious?

I think more obvious would mean the Warden interrupting them *boink*ing on the shop counter...

Saying "dear" or "honey" or whatever would also work, just an extra word at the end of a sentence. Could just happen once or twice out of all their dialogue.

Also, it wasn't 100% obvious to me, as seeing people act like that just means they have a very close relationship and must obviously live together, doesn't mean they are sexual partners.

[AlexanderCousland]

Nice to see? To Who? I dont even want to see Hetero couples all mushy with eachother, i dont get this insatiable need to advertise one' s sexuality in public, especially if we can clearly point out that it has been done, they even put a tranny in the game.

[RetroActiv]

LPPrince wrote...

No one's suggesting they "need" to do anything.

We're just saying, it'd be nice if they added some of that stuff in the background.

Well they kind of are because that stuff is already there in the background but it seems a few people are insisting on MOAR!

[Sutekh]

FreshIstay wrote...

Have we not seen that Thedas accepts gay people? 

We've seen that Ferelden and the Free Marches seem to accept gay people. We've seen that the dwarves aren't very fond of the thing. We've no idea about the elves or the Qunari. We've learned all that because there was some mentions in DAO and DA2, so it would be nice if the trend continues in DA3 as well, and maybe in a more definitive way.

My point was more about focusing only on the essential isn't always a good thing.

[Gazardiel]

Given that background people need to be created, scripted, and voiced anyway, it seems to be no more effort to have a F/F or M/M couple than a F/M - just pick a different body and voice actor.

Good idea, OP!

[Daerog]

FreshIstay wrote...

Nice to see? To Who? I dont even want to see Hetero couples all mushy with eachother, i dont get this insatiable need to advertise one' s sexuality in public, especially if we can clearly point out that it has been done, they even put a tranny in the game.

Well, on my part the "thats nice" was meant to be sarcastic, as I don't really care and will be more focused on other stuff. I hardly noticed the random, unnamed npcs in Denerim or Kirkwall, won't notice unnamed npcs in DA3 I bet. I did notice the zombie kitten army, though.

Compared to other stuff I think the game should have, this request is not even on the radar for me, but like the race thread (not dwarf/elf race, but skin), my only real response is "okay, that's nice, moving on." If it's a part of the story, it's a part of it, if not, then whatever, as long as it doesn't destroy the "suspension of disbelief" too much unless it is some sort of easter egg.

Edit: but like I said, playing the opposite opinion is good to flesh out ideas, but I don't think this thought/idea/request is that complex to delve into for more info.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:46 .

[LPPrince]

FreshIstay wrote...

Nice to see? To Who? I dont even want to see Hetero couples all mushy with eachother, i dont get this insatiable need to advertise one' s sexuality in public, especially if we can clearly point out that it has been done, they even put a tranny in the game.

And who said anything about an insatiable need for this to be in the game?

Its a suggestion.

[nightscrawl]

LadyMalstroem wrote...

It's not really meta-game knowledge when it's in the game. They were in a relationship, whether Anders tells you or not. They weren't "just good friends" if Hawke is female.

Yes, it IS metagame knowledge. If you have ONLY ever played a female Hawke, never been on the BSN, or looked at the DAwiki, you wouldn't know about that at all. The only way that information comes out is if you are a male Hawke, regardless of whether or not you romance Anders.

Now, I suppose you can argue that you think Anders drops hints to a female Hawke, but that is a matter of perception. I don't think he does. For a male Hawke he directly mentions his relationship with Karl.

I got into an involved discussion about this on the DA2 forums months ago. David Gaider came in the thread and (to my interpretation) basically said that Anders had a relationship with Karl regardless of your Hawke's gender**. He doesn't choose to tell fem Hawke, because what guy interested in a woman does that, right? OK, I'll go along with that. But that is the quintessential example of metagame knowledge.


** DG doesn't state this directly, but given the context of the thread, which I followed for a few days, that was what I took from it.


To the topic at hand, with all of the examples that have been pointed out in this thread, I don't really see a disproportionate number of o/s relationships represented over the s/s ones, at least not enough to single out any one s/s relationship as somehow bizarre or aberrant.

I get the OP's desire to see more of them as background clutter, but I think in this case that they should all be taken together, regardless of the presentation (background vs player centric). All of our interaction, background and foreground, informs our perception of Thedas, her peoples, and her cultural norms. I don't really think one is more significant than the other in that regard.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:59 .

[AlexanderCousland]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Nice to see? To Who? I dont even want to see Hetero couples all mushy with eachother, i dont get this insatiable need to advertise one' s sexuality in public, especially if we can clearly point out that it has been done, they even put a tranny in the game.

Well, on my part the "thats nice" was meant to be sarcastic, as I don't really care and will be more focused on other stuff. I hardly noticed the random, unnamed npcs in Denerim or Kirkwall, won't notice unnamed npcs in DA3 I bet. I did notice the zombie kitten army, though.

Compared to other stuff I think the game should have, this request is not even on the radar for me, but like the race thread (not dwarf/elf race, but skin), my only real response is "okay, that's nice, moving on." If it's a part of the story, it's a part of it, if not, then whatever, as long as it doesn't destroy the "suspension of disbelief" too much unless it is some sort of easter egg.

Agreed. The Race Thread is probably more justifiable though, there' s probably more Gay Charscter' s then representations of different variations of melanin. 

[AlexanderCousland]

LPPrince wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Nice to see? To Who? I dont even want to see Hetero couples all mushy with eachother, i dont get this insatiable need to advertise one' s sexuality in public, especially if we can clearly point out that it has been done, they even put a tranny in the game.

And who said anything about an insatiable need for this to be in the game?

Its a suggestion.

The thread said it, people backed it up by comparing the hetero to ****** relationships, one girl complained because she didnt know Anders was gay as a female. Some posters dissmissed the Homosexual relationships that were pointed out as invalid because of one stipulation or another.

[Zanallen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

How many heterosexual relationships are really shown in game? More than same sex, definitely, but still very few.

Opposite-gender sexuality is ubiquitous in Dragon Age. That's not to say there's anything wrong with that - straight people are rather common and sexuality is part of life - but I'm not sure how you could argue that heterosexual relationships are few.

Off the top of my head:
The human noble's parents
The human noble's brother and step-sister
Ser Jory and his wife
Cailan and Anora
Flemeth entire backstory
Cullen's crush on the female mage
Lilly and the whiny blood mage
Arl Emamon and Isodle
Arl Howe and Lady Sophie
Wynne and anonymous mage dude
Oghren and Branka. Oghran and Felsi.
Bhelen and Rica.
Cammen and Gheyna.

I'm just saying that I don't recall the game bothing to really showcase relationships outside of those of the PC and a few choice others. A lot of the time, a person will be mentioned as having a wife or husband or lover or whatever, but we rarely see them together. A lot of the time it is meaningless background fluff. I mean, we can assume every character in the game was the product of a heterosexual relationship.

But I'm not going to argue against the inclusion of more same-sex couples. I honestly don't care. If people want them, by all means add them. More inclusion is rarely a bad thing, after all. It isn't like Bioware is going to force straight gamers into engaging in virtual homosexual orgies or some crazed idea like that.

[nightscrawl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

What more important things are there to focus on?

In DA II, there's a quest where a mage escapes the Kirkwall Circle just because he wants to dip his wick in a girl. If he's wanted to dip it in a dude, or he was a she wanting to hook up with another lady, how would it have changed that quest or its focus in the slightest?

This is a fair point. However, if you do this quest, return to the mansion at night and play MotA, you can learn that Emile (supposedly) got Nella pregnant. While it's just story fodder that doesn't mean anything, it still does have a repercussion for the hetero sex.

Actually, that same story would have been more interesting and also tragic if it had been a de Launcet mage daughter because mages have their babies taken away. This could have had all sort of interesting results with the de Launcet's wanting to raise their grandchild instead of the Chantry, and generally being more content that influences our opinion about the mage/templar issue.

[Wulfram]

It's easier to casually introduce the implication of a heterosexual relationship. Because of things like marriage and children.

Not to say that there shouldn't be more homosexual relationships - particularly reasonably happy ones, given how Leliana/Marjolaine, Zevran/Assassin Guy, Anders/Karl and Branka/Hespith all turn out.