347 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

FreshIstay wrote...

nightscrawl wrote..

There's enough same-sex relationships and references as it is. Having half the NPCs being ******-sexual would be completely unrealistic and bothersome. As is making everyone a bi-sexual.
In other words it should have the analogies of real life, else it will feel forced and "fake".
Realistic for our own world, yes. Realistic for Thedas, we have no idea. There could be dozens of homosexuals among all of the NPCs we have encountered over the course of both games, they just don't advertise it, in the way that straight people don't generally advertise that. You may assume that the average person you meet in Dragon Age is straight, whether that is because you are straight or because the majority are straight in real life. Without them telling you so or otherwise indicating their preference, you have no idea and it remains an assumption.

so now that youve given then supposition that there could be dozens of homsexuals among existing npcs who dont advertise it, what' s the deal here? 

Please be careful with how you quote. I didn't write the first part of that, the part I wrote starts with "Realistic for our own world...".

I don't understand your question. The person I was responding to asserted that it is not realistic for Thedas, so I was attempting to show that we don't know what would be realistic since people of either preference don't tell everyone about it, so we can't really tell how rare or common homosexuality is in Thedas.

Also, to those who think this would be a "waste of time" or "meaningless," if Bioware actually did as the OP suggested I doubt you would really notice a significant change. The people who would notice it are the people that it is meaningful to.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 janvier 2013 - 08:57 .

[XX-Pyro]

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

[Battlebloodmage]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:04 .

[XX-Pyro]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

[LPPrince]

motomotogirl wrote...

paptschik wrote...

I honestly think ALL romances need more presence in the background. Not overtly so, but, you know, just bits and pieces. But more concerned than with same sex stuff I'm with interactial romance...I'd just like to see dwarves with elves, elves with humans, humans with dwarves, it's just a much more interesting picture when they stand side by side.

Quoting you again to add that I'd like to see a human x elf romance that wasn't: lowlife scum human male x jilted elven female.

Maybe same sex pairing, or male elf x human female (shocker!) or even (gasp) happy and healthy male human x elf female relationship.

Agreed. If the cities in DA3 can have more NPC's doing their own thing(walking around, shopping, whatever else have you) it'd be nice to have more relationships made evident by the holding of hands, the dialogue between couples, etc etc.

Homosexual couples and mixed race couples included.

[nightscrawl]

XX-Pyro wrote...

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either.

I'm going to quote a previous post that is important...

Wulfram wrote...

It's easier to casually introduce the implication of a heterosexual relationship. Because of things like marriage and children.

This is a key part in social interaction that many people take for granted and may be overlooked in the portrayal of homosexuality in games. If Wade and Herren had mentioned that their son was going to start his blacksmith apprenticeship the following week, there would be no question about whether or not they were a couple. Similarly with the use of pronouns. If the couple at the city elf origin wedding were s/s and said "Here is a gift from us," or "I remember our wedding as if it were only yesterday," that would be a pretty big hint. There is no declarative statement: "I'M GAY!," just casual conversation with key phrases that mean the same in heterosexual relationships.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:10 .

[Battlebloodmage]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays. To be honest, if they went that route, they should just make one gay and one straight. I can just imagine the outrage people have from having choices to be stuck with just one.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:16 .

[XX-Pyro]

nightscrawl wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either.

I'm going to quote a previous post that is important...

Wulfram wrote...

It's easier to casually introduce the implication of a heterosexual relationship. Because of things like marriage and children.

This is a key part in social interaction that many people take for granted and may be overlooked in the portrayal of homosexuality in games. If Wade and Herren had made mentioned of their son who is going to start his blacksmith apprenticeship the following week, there would be no question about whether or not they were a couple. Similarly with the use of pronouns. If the couple at the city elf origin wedding were s/s and said "Here is a gift from us," or "I remember our wedding as if it were only yesterday," that would be a pretty big hint. There is no declarative statement: "I'M GAY!," just casual conversation with key phrases that mean the same in heterosexual relationships.

Because people don't exactly parade the fact that they are in a relationship to a random customer. I thought it was fairly obvious that they were a couple, and while I do agree it is easier to insinuate a heterosexual relationship I just think it would be so out of place the way everyone keeps describing it in this thread (especially the OP.) Your way works, I suppose, but unless there's a conversation leading up to that "I remember our wedding as if it were yesterday" then it would just be a cheap and needless way to please fans.

[XX-Pyro]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays.  You would be pretty satisfied then, I suppose.

DAO had two bi's and two straights. What I said was have a straight, two bi's, and a gay. Reading comprehension skills, please.

[LPPrince]

nightscrawl wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either.

I'm going to quote a previous post that is important...

Wulfram wrote...

It's easier to casually introduce the implication of a heterosexual relationship. Because of things like marriage and children.

This is a key part in social interaction that many people take for granted and may be overlooked in the portrayal of homosexuality in games. If Wade and Herren had mentioned that their son was going to start his blacksmith apprenticeship the following week, there would be no question about whether or not they were a couple. Similarly with the use of pronouns. If the couple at the city elf origin wedding were s/s and said "Here is a gift from us," or "I remember our wedding as if it were only yesterday," that would be a pretty big hint. There is no declarative statement: "I'M GAY!," just casual conversation with key phrases that mean the same in heterosexual relationships.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. And thats if we're taking dialogue into account, having two characters simply holding each other's hands is enough.

[esper]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays.  You would be pretty satisfied then, I suppose.

DAO had two bi's and two straights. What I said was have a straight, two bi's, and a gay. Reading comprehension skills, please.

For gay people da:o had one option, battlebloodmage's question was if you would be allright with having one option as straight (the bi person).

[Battlebloodmage]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays.  You would be pretty satisfied then, I suppose.

DAO had two bi's and two straights. What I said was have a straight, two bi's, and a gay. Reading comprehension skills, please.

I think it's you who need reading comprehension skill. Read the bolded part, I said that there are limited resources which means that such option would not be feastible, and Gaider stated that it would be his preferred method if there were to be enough resources. Since there isn't, there are likely only 4 LIs in which someone will be left out or stuck with just one LI.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:22 .

[esper]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays.  You would be pretty satisfied then, I suppose.

DAO had two bi's and two straights. What I said was have a straight, two bi's, and a gay. Reading comprehension skills, please.

You would need two straights (one of each gender) and two gays (again one of each gender) and two bi (again one of each gender) for the match to go up.

Else in your scenario we would end up with a scene were either straight or homosexual PC would only get one option.

Edit, remember that just because your by choosing the pc's gender locks some of the romances out, bioware still have to write and scripts all six.

Modifié par esper, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:20 .

[XX-Pyro]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gay romances is perfectly ok. Everyone being bisexual just for player catering is not.

I agree with this in terms of companion romances. As for NPC's showing their sexuality, that's never been a part of Bioware games at all, really. You don't see any straight couples kissing in the market either. I think what matters is that the relationships with people who are integral to the game (ie. companions) have some LGB options, that's what matters. But please Bioware don't make every companion LGB. 

Like I said many times before, I would be fine if there's an equal number of LIs regarding the number of gay, straight, bi. I don't mind if they have specific orientation; however, the devs have kept saying it over and over again that there is not enough resource. I'm suspecting that there will be around 4 LIs just like the last time, so either gay and straight gamers will have to do with just one LI if they put in specific orientation.

I thought DAO had it fine? Leliana went both ways as did Zevran. If one of them were strictly L/G that would have been fine. To be totally honest it's not exactly a norm in Thedas (despite it not being frowned upon,) and you can't always be choosey in a game that's already being extremely favourable towards the LBGT crowd (which I applaude Bioware for, by the way.)

If you agree then I guess they should just go back to DAO and have 2 bis and 2 gays.  You would be pretty satisfied then, I suppose.

DAO had two bi's and two straights. What I said was have a straight, two bi's, and a gay. Reading comprehension skills, please.

I think it's you who need reading comprehension skill. Red the bolded part, I said that there is limited resources which means that such option would not be feastible, and Gaider stated that it would be his preferred method if there were to be enough resources. Since there isn't, there are likely only 4 LIs in which someone will be left out or stuck with just one LI.

OK let's backtrack to see where my reading comprehension failed. Limited resources means 4 LI's. Gotcha. My arrangement of LI's showed, wait for it, a total of 4 LI's. Guess what happens if I love a girl in real life and she turns out to be lesbian? I don't get to date her. It's that simple. But, since this is a game, I get to make a female character and date her! It's not leaving anyone out. You still have two options no matter what.

[nightscrawl]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Because people don't exactly parade the fact that they are in a relationship to a random customer. I thought it was fairly obvious that they were a couple, and while I do agree it is easier to insinuate a heterosexual relationship I just think it would be so out of place the way everyone keeps describing it in this thread (especially the OP.) Your way works, I suppose, but unless there's a conversation leading up to that "I remember our wedding as if it were yesterday" then it would just be a cheap and needless way to please fans.

You are taking my examples too literally, but they are just examples of a type of situation. The NPCs don't have to be addressing the PC, they can be talking among themselves. There are many examples of NPC environmental banter in both games. Can't you think of couples you know in real life who say things like "We did this or that," "So-and-so came over to our house," "We're going home now, we'll see you tomorrow," and so on.

You can certainly have suggestive dialog without resorting to affectionate name-calling like honey, dear, darling, etc, and this is what I'm trying to illustrate.

LPPrince wrote...

Pretty much hit the nail on the head. And thats if we're taking dialogue into account, having two characters simply holding each other's hands is enough.

Are they "Bioware hands"? Lol... I'm really looking forward to see what the Frostbite engine is going to do in this regard. If it were with DAO or DA2's engine, I don't think that it would look very good.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:26 .

[XX-Pyro]

nightscrawl wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

Because people don't exactly parade the fact that they are in a relationship to a random customer. I thought it was fairly obvious that they were a couple, and while I do agree it is easier to insinuate a heterosexual relationship I just think it would be so out of place the way everyone keeps describing it in this thread (especially the OP.) Your way works, I suppose, but unless there's a conversation leading up to that "I remember our wedding as if it were yesterday" then it would just be a cheap and needless way to please fans.

You are taking my examples too literally, but they are just examples of a type of situation. The NPCs don't have to be addressing the PC, they can be talking among themselves. There are many examples of NPC environmental banter in both games. Can't you think of couples you know in real life who say things like "We did this or that," "So-and-so came over to our house," "We're going home now, we'll see you tomorrow," and so on.

You can certainly have suggestive dialog without resorting to affectionate name-calling like honey, dear, darling, etc, and this is what I'm trying to illustrate.

That I perfectly well agree with and wasn't arguing. I was arguing against these couples doing things that hetero couples don't do in the game, for the sole purpose of labelling them as s/s. That would be cheap, in my opinion. 

[LPPrince]

Whoa with the quote pyramids. Might want to shorten those guys. Hard to look at.

Also, this thread isn't about love interests. Its about background characters having their relationship statuses be a little more noticeable(like noticeable at all) and having some of those be homosexual relationships.

[Battlebloodmage]

XX-Pyro wrote...


OK let's backtrack to see where my reading comprehension failed. Limited resources means 4 LI's. Gotcha. My arrangement of LI's showed, wait for it, a total of 4 LI's. Guess what happens if I love a girl in real life and she turns out to be lesbian? I don't get to date her. It's that simple. But, since this is a game, I get to make a female character and date her! It's not leaving anyone out. You still have two options no matter what.

Since now that we're on the same page, I agree that we should make 2 gays and 2 bis, and if people want to romance the second character of the opposite sex as them, they should make a same sex character to roleplay as.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:29 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

[Noviere]

The discussion regarding LIs is kinda off topic, but since it's been brought up, I'll throw my 2 cents in.

As much as I'd love it if Bioware had the resources to make LIs that were specificially gay... They have said that they don't. Making them all bi, while not ideal, at least gives players more options. Example? I would have loved if Alistair was an option for my male Warden, but I was stuck with Zevran who I wasn't crazy about... So I ended up with Morrigan. 

Even in DA2, there are only really 2 LIs that are written as bi. Sure, Merrill and Fenris will swing that way if Hawke instigates it... But only Isabela and Anders have it as part of their character, right? Or at least that was my experience... Merrill and Fenris never expressed interest in my same-gendered Hawke until I approached them.

[Sutekh]

FreshIstay wrote...

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

What?

[nightscrawl]

XX-Pyro wrote...

That I perfectly well agree with and wasn't arguing. I was arguing against these couples doing things that hetero couples don't do in the game, for the sole purpose of labelling them as s/s. That would be cheap, in my opinion.

OK so here is an actual example from DAO: the Superman reference where you pick up the Meteor Metal Ore for Starfang. If the scene had played out the exact same way but the two people were of the same sex, "... let's take him home and raise him as our own," would that be acceptable?

The line spoken in that manner indicates that they are a couple. In a scene like that there certainly could have been a s/s pair instead. Obviously, it's a reference to Superman so it wouldn't have happened that way, but again, just an example.

[AlexanderCousland]

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

What?

Gay' s dont seem to recognize BI' s as one of them, so why should straight people recognize BI' s, if we operate by that notion, There Is only 1 romance for straight people in both games an Zero for gay people. 

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

What?

Gay' s dont seem to recognize BI' s as one of them, so why should straight people recognize BI' s, if we operate by that notion, There Is only 1 romance for straight people in both games an Zero for gay people. 

Where did you get that notion? If it were from the previous conversation I had, then I don't care if the characters are bi, I care about having the same number of options that available to straights. Most gays don't care about the characters being bis, it's the straight people who often advocate for more defined sexual orientation.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 09:47 .

[nightscrawl]

FreshIstay wrote...

Gay' s dont seem to recognize BI' s as one of them, so why should straight people recognize BI' s, if we operate by that notion, There Is only 1 romance for straight people in both games an Zero for gay people. 

So what do you think the "B" in LGBT stands for? Bologna?