347 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexanderCousland]

nightscrawl wrote...
OK so here is an actual example from DAO: the Superman reference where you pick up the Meteor Metal Ore for Starfang. If the scene had played out the exact same way but the two people were of the same sex, "... let's take him home and raise him as our own," would that be acceptable?

The line spoken in that manner indicates that they are a couple. In a scene like that there certainly could have been a s/s pair instead. Obviously, it's a reference to Superman so it wouldn't have happened that way, but again, just an example.

It would be acceptable for a small group of people, yes. It would force people to think about how they feel about same sex parenthood, which would then spawn into another ordeal possibly bigger then the scene itself.

[Sutekh]

FreshIstay wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

What?

Gay' s dont seem to recognize BI' s as one of them, so why should straight people recognize BI' s, if we operate by that notion, There Is only 1 romance for straight people in both games an Zero for gay people. 

And bi players are what, then? Unicorns?

Anyway, if we're talking about representation, no, bi aren't gay nor straight. They're bi, which is a sexual orientation on its own (of real people, who do exist. For real. I know, I'm one of them).

If we're talking about availabilty, then all this is meaningless, since it's the other way around, unless you get a particular person who would only romance someone of their own orientation.

But this thread is about representation, not the over-discussed "OMG they're all bi", right? 

[AlexanderCousland]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Where did you get that notion? If it were from the previous conversation I had, then I don't care if the characters are bi, I care about having the same number of options that available to straights. Most gays don't care about the characters being bis, it's the straight people who often advocate for more defined sexual orientation.

Really? I dont think straight people care as much as you think they do, What straight people care about is having to treat gay' s like a culture, and people asking for things that are already there. more women of power? got it. reperesentation for gay people? got it. your start putting more and more then it becomes Gaydom Age 3. 

[AlexanderCousland]

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Since the BI' s dont count for the Gay' s, then I suppose they shouldn' t count for the Straight' s either, in which case, there is only 1 romance in Origins and Zero in DA2.

What?

Gay' s dont seem to recognize BI' s as one of them, so why should straight people recognize BI' s, if we operate by that notion, There Is only 1 romance for straight people in both games an Zero for gay people. 

And bi players are what, then? Unicorns?

Anyway, if we're talking about representation, no, bi aren't gay nor straight. They're bi, which is a sexual orientation on its own (of real people, who do exist. For real. I know, I'm one of them).

If we're talking about availabilty, then all this is meaningless, since it's the other way around, unless you get a particular person who would only romance someone of their own orientation.

But this thread is about representation, not the over-discussed "OMG they're all bi", right? 

Bi people should have the least to complain about, theyve got the most sexually orientated representation in both games.

[LPPrince]

Well, this thread's been certainly taken off topic.

Regardless, Emzey you had a good point, I hope something along those lines appears more in the games. Perhaps starting with DA3.

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Where did you get that notion? If it were from the previous conversation I had, then I don't care if the characters are bi, I care about having the same number of options that available to straights. Most gays don't care about the characters being bis, it's the straight people who often advocate for more defined sexual orientation.

Really? I dont think straight people care as much as you think they do, What straight people care about is having to treat gay' s like a culture, and people asking for things that are already there. more women of power? got it. reperesentation for gay people? got it. your start putting more and more then it becomes Gaydom Age 3. 

To each their own, I don't think asking for equal number of LIs is ridiculous or asking to see some gay visibility in the game. I personally don't have the problem with the number of gay NPC in the game though. If you have no problem with gay presented in the game, you shouldn't care. I don't care about every mainstream out there have almost or all straight relationship in it. The way you say it though seem likely from the point of view of someone who's always a part of the majority, at least as far as video games are concerned, and want to keep the status quo that way.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:15 .

[legbamel]

Emzamination wrote...

LadyMalstroem wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
The player is required to be male for Anders & karls relationship to exist. Meta-game knowledge isn't valid. The player however doesn't have to meet any criteria to find out camen and gheyna are in a relationship. The player pushing them into marriage is irrelevant.

It's not really meta-game knowledge when it's in the game. They were in a relationship, whether Anders tells you or not. They weren't "just good friends" if Hawke is female.

And I really don't see how Wade and Herren (or all the other ones Pseudocognition mentioned) don't qualify. It just sounds like you're building a smaller and smaller box for yourself here.

It's not in game tho. If the player never plays a male hawke, they'd never have knowledge of the relationship making it non-existent.

O rly? Please give me one instance in origins where wade & herren give off the smallest hint that they're a couple.

The way they interact.  Why does it only count if a couple specifically tells you they're in a relationship when it would make no sense in the context of the game?  I've never played Male Hawke but I knew Anders and Karl had a thing from my first run.  Just because he doesn't explicitly tell FemHawke doesn't mean the subtext isn't there, it's just easier to ignore if you prefer to believe that Anders is het.

OT: I do think it would be nice to see more relationships between NPCs and companions, not with regard to particular sexual preference but with regard to people actually caring about one another.  There's little enough of that in any game outside of plot necessity.

Modifié par legbamel, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:07 .

[Sylvianus]

Jesus christ. DA3 is more about social politics than anything else on this forum.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:19 .

[AlexanderCousland]

FreshIstay wrote...

Really? I dont think straight people care as much as you think they do, What straight people care about is having to treat gay' s like a culture, and people asking for things that are already there. more women of power? got it. reperesentation for gay people? got it. your start putting more and more then it becomes Gaydom Age 3. 

Battlebloodmage wrote...

To each their own, I don't think asking for equal number of LIs is ridiculous or asking to see some gay visibility in the game. I personally don't have the problem with the number of gay NPC in the game though. If you have no problem with gay presented in the game, you shouldn't care. I don't care about every mainstream out there have almost or all straight relationship in it.

It' s not ridiculous, but Is also ALREADY there AND I dont have a problem with it. 

The reason almost no-one cares about straight representation is because they were created by the genes of opposite sexe' s.
 

[Sutekh]

FreshIstay wrote...

Bi people should have the least to complain about, theyve got the most sexually orientated representation in both games.

Yes, we do  (when it comes to LIs, that is).

Which doesn't mean that we can't "complain" about representation of other sexual orientations, or other races or anything really that isn't directly "us". In DA3, I'd like some "show, don't tell" of relationships myself. Family, couples etc... of any sexual orientation, including but not limited to, s/s couples, because i think it does a lot to flesh out the world. Conversation and hints would be fine. No need for kisses or rutting in the streets.

(not gonna touch your "Gaydom Age 3" thing because derailing is bad, but you seriously should think before posting.)

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...



It' s not ridiculous, but Is also ALREADY there AND I dont have a problem with it.
 

Yes, it's already there and all the gay gamers want are to have more visible representation, not overtaking straigh people in the game. Since you don't have a problem with it, you shouldn't care either way whether gay couples in the game.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:40 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Emzamination wrote...

I'd like to see wife/wife, Husband/Husband in the market places tenderly buying orlesian silks together, having arguments, being affectionate with each-other or walking around town together, like the m/f couple npcs.

Do we actually see m/f couple doing that in Thedas? I mean nameless NPCs without dialogue choices.

All I ever see in Thedas is death, destruction, and people fleeing from death and destruction.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:42 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Bi people should have the least to complain about, theyve got the most sexually orientated representation in both games.

Yes, we do  (when it comes to LIs, that is).

Which doesn't mean that we can't "complain" about representation of other sexual orientations, or other races or anything really that isn't directly "us". In DA3, I'd like some "show, don't tell" of relationships myself. Family, couples etc... of any sexual orientation, including but not limited to, s/s couples, because i think it does a lot to flesh out the world. Conversation and hints would be fine. No need for kisses or rutting in the streets.

(not gonna touch your "Gaydom Age 3" thing because derailing is bad, but you seriously should think before posting.)

I know what I posted. I really dont care about offending anyone' s sexual preference, IMO your sexuality is seperate from your personality, if you cant seperate them then your bound to be offended, I dont get offended when people criticize me for liking black women with big butts and long hair. It' s what I like, say what you want IDC.

That said, visible s/s relationships are fine, I just dont get why they need to be compared to hetero relationship to a point where they should be represented equally, that, IMO would be wierd, and there' s not much PDA between Hetero couple' s anyway, so the whole suggestion is mind boggling. "I need to be able to tell that they are gay!" ....what?

[addiction21]

FreshIstay wrote...


I know what I posted. I really dont care about offending anyone' s sexual preference, IMO your sexuality is seperate from your personality

I disagree. I would not say they are dependent on each other but to a extent they could/can feed off each other.  Maybe for you they do not but I know for me they do overlap. The best word I could think of.

FreshIstay wrote...


That said, visible s/s relationships are fine, I just dont get why they need to be compared to hetero relationship to a point where they should be represented equally, that, IMO would be wierd, and there' s not much PDA between Hetero couple' s anyway, so the whole suggestion is mind boggling. "I need to be able to tell that they are gay!" ....what?

I do agree with this but maybe not for the same reasons you do.

I don't want some arbitrary ratio of every possible denomination the exists in the real world and the fictional just because. That ties the creators hands (and I know the OP does not give two ****s about that) and BioWare in my own opinion has done a damned fine job of being inclusive to as many as possible.

Personally I think the thread should be shut down at this point and should be

(the warhammer ones are over done)

[**Off-topic images removed by moderator**]

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 13 janvier 2013 - 11:24 .

[Emzamination]

@addiction21 The thing is, this thread is about more gay representation, not inclusion, as gays are already a factor in game.The only thing that needs to purged from this thread are people making ignorant statements about a topic, they couldn't be bothered to understand.

[Sutekh]

FreshIstay wrote...

I know what I posted. I really dont care about offending anyone' s sexual preference, IMO your sexuality is seperate from your personality, if you cant seperate them then your bound to be offended, I dont get offended when people criticize me for liking black women with big butts and long hair. It' s what I like, say what you want IDC.

You seem very confused about what sexual orientation is (as opposed to sexual preferences), and the actual consequences of having a different s.o. than the norm. But, again, not the topic.

That said, visible s/s relationships are fine, I just dont get why they need to be compared to hetero relationship to a point where they should be represented equally, that, IMO would be wierd, and there' s not much PDA between Hetero couple' s anyway, so the whole suggestion is mind boggling. "I need to be able to tell that they are gay!" ....what?

I don't think they should be represented equally in a world where they aren't equal (in quantity). I don't think anybody asked for that either. What I want is an accurate image of the society I'm playing in. If there are s/s couples and if they don't need to hide, then I want to see that too, because it tells me more about the world and it makes it more tangible.

I also don't agree with the OP that they weren't represented at all in DAO or DA2. They were. They're also clearly represented in the books (esp. The Calling), so we know they exist, and how they are received. But it would be nice to see more personal conversations between NPC than "I've seen a mudcrab today" or the Thedas equivalent. If we have more personal conversations and / or little glimpses into NPCs's life, it would also be nice to see some s/s content among other things.

You have that in TV shows and movies more and more. Some secondary character is a lesbian. Some not so secondary is gay, or bi, or a trans* person. That's nothing, just something in passing, but that's nice. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden, each and every character is LGBT, and nobody asks for that.

Don't worry, unless you actually play Gaydom Age, you won't ever see a game where your sexual orientation isn't represented at all. You will still have recognition. That is in no way endangered. You're not threatened. Not now, not tomorrow, not in a million years. So if seeing gay couples really doesn't bother you, you should be fine with a little demonstration, yeah?

[Emzamination]

Sutekh wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

I know what I posted. I really dont care about offending anyone' s sexual preference, IMO your sexuality is seperate from your personality, if you cant seperate them then your bound to be offended, I dont get offended when people criticize me for liking black women with big butts and long hair. It' s what I like, say what you want IDC.

You seem very confused about what sexual orientation is (as opposed to sexual preferences), and the actual consequences of having a different s.o. than the norm. But, again, not the topic.

That said, visible s/s relationships are fine, I just dont get why they need to be compared to hetero relationship to a point where they should be represented equally, that, IMO would be wierd, and there' s not much PDA between Hetero couple' s anyway, so the whole suggestion is mind boggling. "I need to be able to tell that they are gay!" ....what?

I don't think they should be represented equally in a world where they aren't equal (in quantity). I don't think anybody asked for that either. What I want is an accurate image of the society I'm playing in. If there are s/s couples and if they don't need to hide, then I want to see that too, because it tells me more about the world and it makes it more tangible.

I also don't agree with the OP that they weren't represented at all in DAO or DA2. They were. They're also clearly represented in the books (esp. The Calling), so we know they exist, and how they are received. But it would be nice to see more personal conversations between NPC than "I've seen a mudcrab today" or the Thedas equivalent. If we have more personal conversations and / or little glimpses into NPCs's life, it would also be nice to see some s/s content among other things.

You have that in TV shows and movies more and more. Some secondary character is a lesbian. Some not so secondary is gay, or bi, or a trans* person. That's nothing, just something in passing, but that's nice. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden, each and every character is LGBT, and nobody asks for that.

Don't worry, unless you actually play Gaydom Age, you won't ever see a game where your sexual orientation isn't represented at all. You will still have recognition. That is in no way endangered. You're not threatened. Not now, not tomorrow, not in a million years. So if seeing gay couples really doesn't bother you, you should be fine with a little demonstration, yeah?

Requesting elaboration on the underlined.

[Shevy]

Wouldn't mind same sex relationships of npc's as long as the game doesn't force me to watch a male/male kiss scene. And by forced I mean a cinematic centered on them.

[addiction21]

Emzamination wrote...

@addiction21 The thing is, this thread is about more gay representation, not inclusion, as gays are already a factor in game.The only thing that needs to purged from this thread are people making ignorant statements about a topic, they couldn't be bothered to understand.

Factors? BioWare has gone out of their way to not just make them factors but to include LGBT npvs but also romance options and to make them a perfectly fine option in their universes.

You are arguing a non-issue

[Emzamination]

addiction21 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

@addiction21 The thing is, this thread is about more gay representation, not inclusion, as gays are already a factor in game.The only thing that needs to purged from this thread are people making ignorant statements about a topic, they couldn't be bothered to understand.

Factors? BioWare has gone out of their way to not just make them factors but to include LGBT npvs but also romance options and to make them a perfectly fine option in their universes.

You are arguing a non-issue

I don't know what a 'npv' is, but this topic is not about gay romance options. It's about gay npc couples being better visually represented in game.

[addiction21]

Oh no I hit v instead of c...Do you have a point or argument? ya, I didn't think so.

[RaenImrahl]

Let's please try to keep this discussion on track. The premise in the original post was the need for more background characters, or npcs, who exhibit a greater diversity of sexual orientations and interact with one another accordingly. LIs are indeed off-topic (as others have already noted). So are commentaries on given lifestyles. So are superfluous images.

So I encourage the discussion to continue along those lines and with respect towards other users.

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 14 janvier 2013 - 01:33 .

[Battlebloodmage]

Shevy_001 wrote...

Wouldn't mind same sex relationships of npc's as long as the game doesn't force me to watch a male/male kiss scene. And by forced I mean a cinematic centered on them.

Hopefully, the same goes for male/female kiss scene.

[DreGregoire]

I'm a bit of an easedropper when I'm in a game. I pause and listen to ambiant conversation and events, which is probably why my completed game playthrough times are much longer than most people. I've been know to click on anything and anyone the game allows me to as well (I totally got a trophy for being so "old school" in a game before). The idea of more diverse relationships of NPC's in Dragon Age III to easedrop on would be a welcome treat indeed. I don't like though that some people will assume that I want to see an intimate scene in a public place, because I don't (that kind of thing is for brothels). For me it's not about a sense of variety or inclusion but instead about giving me the experience of existing in the "true" environment of the game world.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 14 janvier 2013 - 02:28 .

[LPPrince]

DreGregoire wrote...

I'm a bit of an easedropper when I'm in a game. I pause and listen to ambiant conversation and events, which is probably why my completed game playthrough times are much longer than most people. I've been know to click on anything and anyone the game allows me to as well (I totally got a trophy for being so "old school" in a game before). The idea of more diverse relationships of NPC's in Dragon Age III to easedrop on would be a welcome treat indeed. I don't like though that some people will assume that I want to see an intimate scene in a public place, because I don't (that kind of thing is for brothels). For me it's not about a sense of variety or inclusion but instead about giving me the experience of existing in the "true" environment of the game world.

Old School? Had to be Human Revolution.

But yes, very much right. I'd love for these sorts of things as it'd make the world feel more real and more alive.