111 réponses à ce sujet

[Silvair]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

The only game I can think of that is all PvE is borderlands, and that game is built on dynamic hunts. PvP is the biggest selling feature of most games and is the most effective way to gain funding and playerbase (more funding)
And would you pay $60 for just horde mode PvE content?

I did for Left 4 Dead.  and fighting through countless hordes in that game is INSANELY fun.

So long as there's still objectives, it doesn't really matter.

Also, I've found Co-op to be more of a selling point than PVP, to be honest.



Only PVP that should be allowed in this kind of game is the Left 4 Dead/Resident Evil 6 kind, where players can become one of the random horde monsters.


classic dungeon crawlers and side scrolling brawlers are the same concept.  4 players against hordes of enemies.

Modifié par Silvair, 14 janvier 2013 - 02:33 .

[CNevarezN]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

No its not CoD or Halo or MoH, but its not unique, actually the game has elements of many story telling devices and games. Don't delude yourself by thinking something so foolish.

Ah, but it is unique.

Knights of the Old Republic
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3 - (With a multiplayer, that was successful)

Yeah, you have CoD's Zombie mode and GoW Horde mode, but those are branched off of a PvP genre. Mass Effect made a Multiplayer that is driven by you controlling said character and fighting off NPC's that can be tweaked to be challenging. It's very challenging. So challenging that the majority on here ***** and complain about the Geth or cower when they are paired up with the terrifying collectors.

The MP DLC they've been pushing out (More than SP mind you) shows you that alot of people are still rockin Mass Effect 3 MP. OP's idea is a very, VERY good idea and easily attainable with the next Gen console. Just imagine, massive maps, wave after massive wave of enemies. You can coordinate with 16 other people rather than just 4. The Devs can tweak the enemies, weapons, etc to make things more challenging. I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point.

[SSuicideKKing666]

The co-op in Left for dead isn't horde mode, its a moving scenario. And as you said, there is PvP in that game. But if you think balance would be an issue with PvP in the standard way, think about it in those games, I know in L4D2 the zombies have a massive advantage and I think in all the time I played that I only won a small handful of games as the humans. I think team arena style would work best and fits with the playstyle of the game as it is.

[SSuicideKKing666]

CNevarezN wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

No its not CoD or Halo or MoH, but its not unique, actually the game has elements of many story telling devices and games. Don't delude yourself by thinking something so foolish.

Ah, but it is unique.

Knights of the Old Republic
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3 - (With a multiplayer, that was successful)

Yes it borrows from this in the obvious ways but I mean in deeper ways.  The story telling narative of the series is so close to that of Star Tek it's practicly a tribute.  It's unique in the same was Star Wars is unique, in charcacter and setting, it borrows from almost every epic tale and standard literary device.  It takes game play elements from a wide varriety, although they seemed to just give up halfway with so many of the ideas.

[CNevarezN]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

CNevarezN wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

No its not CoD or Halo or MoH, but its not unique, actually the game has elements of many story telling devices and games. Don't delude yourself by thinking something so foolish.

Ah, but it is unique.

Knights of the Old Republic
Knights of the Old Republic 2
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3 - (With a multiplayer, that was successful)

Yes it borrows from this in the obvious ways but I mean in deeper ways.  The story telling narative of the series is so close to that of Star Tek it's practicly a tribute.  It's unique in the same was Star Wars is unique, in charcacter and setting, it borrows from almost every epic tale and standard literary device.  It takes game play elements from a wide varriety, although they seemed to just give up halfway with so many of the ideas.

Hm, I see your point. Good one actually.

[l7986]

I would so support this, since it would give me a chance to finish Husk Points 3 sometime this century.

[SSuicideKKing666]

I loved this series and enjoyed all three, I would love to see the series expand and continue to do well. I also hope they hire some people to go through the next title and fix all continuity issues so I'm not pulling my hair out at the end.
Or they could do my personal wish and remake all three but rewrite all the completely nonsensical crap and make the seriese actually make sense if you play it from start to finish.

Modifié par SSuicideKKing666, 14 janvier 2013 - 02:59 .

[GallowsPole]

Yeah now add tech and biotics to zombies or humans and see how balanced you can make it. PvP will never work for ME. Not without limited skill sets and gimped powers which will drag it back down to what it is now, and that's mainly weapon centric gameplay. I wouldn't pay for that. I would also say, that I'm willing to bet most people paid their $60 bucks for SP and got a HUGE bonus in MP.

Forgot to mention imagine dodging Falcon and Scorpion rounds.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 14 janvier 2013 - 03:01 .

[SSuicideKKing666]

GallowsPole wrote...

Yeah now add tech and biotics to zombies or humans and see how balanced you can make it. PvP will never work for ME. Not without limited skill sets and gimped powers which will drag it back down to what it is now, and that's mainly weapon centric gameplay. I wouldn't pay for that. I would also say, that I'm willing to bet most people paid their $60 bucks for SP and got a HUGE bonus in MP.

Forgot to mention imagine dodging Falcon and Scorpion rounds.

Go back to the ME1 armor system and you have solved the boitic problems.

[GallowsPole]

You negate biotics, then you're still left with weapons only. Might as well just make it another shooter at that point. With the current weapons alone it will be more a game of frustration than enjoyment.

[orehlol]

 I don't think us console players can handle that ):

[SSuicideKKing666]

It would only negate the CC of biotics not the damage. It would force posturing and creating the proper team to defeat an enemy that can think on its feet.

[Silvair]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

The co-op in Left for dead isn't horde mode, its a moving scenario. And as you said, there is PvP in that game. But if you think balance would be an issue with PvP in the standard way, think about it in those games, I know in L4D2 the zombies have a massive advantage and I think in all the time I played that I only won a small handful of games as the humans. I think team arena style would work best and fits with the playstyle of the game as it is.

and the type of MP game i'm talking about for ME3 would also be a moving scenario.  Again, huge map, and objectives to do.

Team arena would just be completely broken by anything except a soldier or engineer.  They'd have to water the classes down so much that it might aswell not even be Mass Effect.

Not to mention that "team deathmatch" has to be the single most boring game type...

Biotics and tac cloak would flat out destroy any actual pvp.

As for playing being the monsters...i never really had an issue in Lef 4 Dead or Resident Evil 6.

Also, keep in mind that, unlike Left 4 dead, the players would not just be bosses, they'd also be footsoldiers.  (Playable possessed abomination, for instance...)

[Silvair]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

It would only negate the CC of biotics not the damage. It would force posturing and creating the proper team to defeat an enemy that can think on its feet.

If biotics can't CC, then that defeats the point of biotics.

And if biotics can CC, then PVP is doomed.


Hence why straight PVP can't work without stripping away everything that makes it Mass Effect.

[SSuicideKKing666]

You should put a little more thought into it. It would be akin to arenas in WoW, there's tons of CC but there are tons of ways to counter it. It would make for a fast paced, tactical, team arena. And since most abilities in ME are skill shot and can be dodged I don't think biotics would be anywhere near broken, people just seem to fear what they haven't thought through.

[huntrrz]

Silvair wrote...

Much larger maps, vastly more enemies at once...

Not the way it's currently coded!

'Larger maps' would only mean that enemies could shoot you from across the map even farther away, while you wouldn't even be able to sight them, much less shoot back.

'Vastly more enemies' would just result in the team being swarmed.  The game is now spawning waves right behind players as it is.

[Battlepope190]

Absolutely not.

Mass Effect should NEVER be about the multiplayer.

[Silvair]

huntrrz wrote...

Silvair wrote...

Much larger maps, vastly more enemies at once...

Not the way it's currently coded!

'Larger maps' would only mean that enemies could shoot you from across the map even farther away, while you wouldn't even be able to sight them, much less shoot back.

'Vastly more enemies' would just result in the team being swarmed.  The game is now spawning waves right behind players as it is.

1)  Enemies can't shoot any farther than you, barring snipers and artillery.

2)  Use cover and it won't even be an issue.

3)  Maps are large enough that you can't get swarmed so long as you keep your wits about you.

4)  It doesn't spawn waves right behind players.  It tries its best to spawn them away from players, the maps are so small that if the team is spread out enough that is hard, though.

[Silvair]

Battlepope190 wrote...

Absolutely not.

Mass Effect should NEVER be about the multiplayer.

Too late.  It already is.

[Silvair]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

You should put a little more thought into it. It would be akin to arenas in WoW, there's tons of CC but there are tons of ways to counter it. It would make for a fast paced, tactical, team arena. And since most abilities in ME are skill shot and can be dodged I don't think biotics would be anywhere near broken, people just seem to fear what they haven't thought through.

Stasis bubble.  Shadow Strike.  heck, even neural shock chain link overload would do it.

In games that are designed for PVE, first and foremost, it doesn't work.  lets take Champions Online for example.  First and foremost, about pve.  There was pvp, but all the powers were designed for pve, so it didn't really work.  I had a character (Crocbot) designed to take on hordes of enemies.  He did well at this.  Crap at single target damage, but in pvp, I alone pushed back the entire enemy team, to the point where they had to spend the entire time "HOLD"ing me, so I had to spend the majority of the match mashing space bar to break free, though if I wasn't, they would spend the majority of the match getting bombarded with cluster missiles, orbital sattelite strikes, tungsten gatling rounds, gauntlet chainsaws, whips, etc, etc, so the entire team was being pinned down and wiped out.

I do think they eventually nerfed my characters abilities, but to make it "balanced" they had to do it to a point where my character was completely unusuable because all my powers now did NOTHING beyond basic damage, defeating the point.

Not to mention team deathmatch bores me to utter tears.

Point being, Mass Effect powers don't work for PVP.  They'd have to be watered down to the point where its not even mass effect anymore.

Also...making it more of an enlarged version of what it is now, would make it last longer.  Just like did now, even though the MP was expected to die off within a couple of months.

If it were just "team deathmatch", it would pretty much just be another throwaway cashin mode.  We have a thousand "team deathmatch" modes tacked onto games now, and they all suck.  ME3MP has lasted so long BECAUSE its not just another Team Deathmatch tacked onto the game.

What i'm saying is, leave PVP to the PVP games, and let this one play to its strengths, instead.

[SSuicideKKing666]

Some of the most successful PVP games ever made only had PVP as an extra feature and are now renowned for it, games like Starcraft, Diablo, Golden Eye, Halo, to name a few. And once again you're only looking at it as the system stands right now, the system that has changed every game and even has a different iteration in the current multiplayer from the singleplayer. PvP is one of the biggest innovators for games. Simple fixes would that while in a singularity, pull, throw, lift you can aim and fire, sure you're going to take damage but you already took damage or else you wouldn't have been effected by any of those attacks. The only non-skill shot ability that ignores shields/barriers is stasis and none of the skill shot ones ignore them, so one ability out of those would need a rework. This is the easy part, balancing the game would be easy compared to building the system that would allow it.

[Silvair]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

Some of the most successful PVP games ever made only had PVP as an extra feature and are now renowned for it, games like Starcraft, Diablo, Golden Eye, Halo, to name a few. And once again you're only looking at it as the system stands right now, the system that has changed every game and even has a different iteration in the current multiplayer from the singleplayer. PvP is one of the biggest innovators for games. Simple fixes would that while in a singularity, pull, throw, lift you can aim and fire, sure you're going to take damage but you already took damage or else you wouldn't have been effected by any of those attacks. The only non-skill shot ability that ignores shields/barriers is stasis and none of the skill shot ones ignore them, so one ability out of those would need a rework. This is the easy part, balancing the game would be easy compared to building the system that would allow it.

Allow me to rephrase.

I don't want it to become just another pvp deathmatch.  I enjoy it for what it is:  Players working together to survive against hordes of AI, with objectives.

I want a larger version of that, and I'm okay with pvp so long as it is restricted to people playing as members of the AI horde.

But if it were turned into just another team deathmatch game, then there's no way in hell I would buy it.

Not to mention

1)  There'd be too many issues with converting it to PVP.  The entire game would need to be reworked from the ground up.
2)  Squad vs hordes of ai still fits, thematically.  Its the Reaper forces that the military is struggling to fight against.  There's literally no reason for squaddies to be fighting against each other though.

Modifié par Silvair, 14 janvier 2013 - 05:49 .

[SSuicideKKing666]

Silvair wrote...


Allow me to rephrase.

I don't want it to become just another pvp deathmatch.  I enjoy it for what it is:  Players working together to survive against hordes of AI, with objectives.

I want a larger version of that, and I'm okay with pvp so long as it is restricted to people playing as members of the AI horde.

But if it were turned into just another team deathmatch game, then there's no way in hell I would buy it.

Not to mention

1)  There'd be too many issues with converting it to PVP.  The entire game would need to be reworked from the ground up.
2)  Squad vs hordes of ai still fits, thematically.  Its the Reaper forces that the military is struggling to fight against.  There's literally no reason for squaddies to be fighting against each other though.

There are plenty of reasons within the games lore for players to be pitted against each other in a 3v3 arena setting.  This game is suppossed to be a squad based shooter in a mostly military setting, what does the military do more then anything else?  Train.  There was an entire DLC in the original Mass Effect based on this idea.  Actually I find it rather funny that the multiplayer has done so well when you take into account that that very DLC is basicly the same as the multiplayer and was bashed relentlessly by the fans and is considered by many to be the worst DLC in the entire series.  I'm talking about the Pinnical Station DLC if you didn't realize. 

I though I was very clear about the type of PVP I was refering to, arena teams, not TDM.  Those are very different and I agree that TDM wouldn't work, not because it doesn't fit the theme, but because there would be too much going on at one time to mount any defence or cogent stratagy.  The best example I can give would be arenas in World of Warcraft, which in each of its brackets, is generally stable, until balance changes and then it restablizes.  In WoW's arena players have to build a team that can adapt to changing situations and deal with different types of threats, building compositions that can do this effectivly is the core element to the arena in WoW.  That would be the core concept for this PvP.  With small teams and no respawning until the game is done, players would be forced to find a composition that can win against a wide varriety of threats.  With the wide assortment of abilities available in the current game you could already put a team together for multiple purpose built playstyles. 

Like I said before most people only see what the game does now, but the game has changed so much from one title to the next that all that does is blind you to what could be.  The first ME has a far better weapon and armor system that could be used as a simple starting point, the power system would need to change, but that has changed so much the only thing that is the same from the first game is the name of some of the powers, so what does it matter if they change it again?  As for each power, some would need work, most would probably be fine as they are.
I've thought and disscussed this topic at length, there is nothing that couldn't be fixed to make a fast paced, tactical, squad vs squad game mode.

Modifié par SSuicideKKing666, 14 janvier 2013 - 06:19 .

[UKStory135]

I think that ME3 and Borderlands could learn a lot from each other. I'd would love to see a BL2 style campaign with ME style characters and leveling. More in-depth missions would be a blast. Overall, however, this game has exceeded my expectations amazingly. I only wish they would adjust the manifest to make it more welcoming to newer players so we can keep our playerbase up.

[Silvair]

UKStory135 wrote...

I think that ME3 and Borderlands could learn a lot from each other. I'd would love to see a BL2 style campaign with ME style characters and leveling. More in-depth missions would be a blast. Overall, however, this game has exceeded my expectations amazingly. I only wish they would adjust the manifest to make it more welcoming to newer players so we can keep our playerbase up.

That whole 'exceeded expectatiions is why I think this idea would work.