31 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

I understand why people found it annoying that the VS didn't completely trust Shepard for a while. But at the same I gotta wonder why they were the only ones doing it.

Let's be honest and accept one thing for a moment. If TIM and Miranda did infact install a control chip in Shepard to turn him into a sleeper agent, he would've fooled everybody. Everyone in ME2 was so quick and willing to trust Shepard. In fact they didn't even bring it up really. Then in ME3 if TIM had "activated" Shepard to go on a shooting spree in The Normandy, how many people would he have killed? Or what if TIM decided to do it during the final conversation with him and Anderson? The only loose end for TIM would be Miranda, and he would have no qualms about having Shepard kill her during the Suicide Mission.

The rational and smart thing to have done was for them at some point to take a look at Shepard's implants and make sure there's nothing concerning that Cerberus installed in him. Hell if I was Shepard, I would want to undergo this inspection. In my eyes, it was very professional and smart for Ashley and Kaiden to not fully trust him yet.


Now in this case they happened to be wrong, and Shepard was fine, but it kinda makes you wonder what if?

[xAmilli0n]

I agree. I feel like the VS was right to question Shep, and that the others should have been more wary.

Then again, I also think it would be cool if Shep indeed had a control chip, but you know, thats just me.

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 13 janvier 2013 - 05:51 .

[ManOfSteel]

I concur. The Virmire Survivor was right to be suspicious. Their Commander/friend/loved one dies, only to return working for Cerberus. I know I'd question him/her, regardless of a potential control chip.

It is strange that everyone else is so eager to trust Shepard. Tali mentions she's struggling to believe it's Shepard and asks if she can trust the Commander (if you didn't give her the geth data), but that's about it.

Modifié par DoomHK, 13 janvier 2013 - 05:37 .

[MegaSovereign]

His actions against the Collectors pretty much gives him a free pass.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Maybe Wrex/Wreav when Cerberus shows up on Sur'Kesh. But I thought Ash and Kaidan were being ridiculous. Shepard is killing their troops, sabotaging their entire plan, and so obviously clueless. He didn't even order them to Mars himself, Hackett did, and Liara was in on it too. Do *they* both work for Cerberus now too?

Horizon I could understand. This, I don't. At some point you have to use a little common sense. I was disappointed at their writing-induced retardation.

[hiraeth]

I agree. I initially thought it was because the VS was the only other Alliance/human squadmate in ME1 (and thus would be particularly wary of Cerberus), but then we don't really see people like Anderson questioning Shepard much at all.

Weird.

[OnyxFuego]

I appreciate someone calling things out so I'm okay with the VS questioning things. Besides, they sat an entire game out and it's been 2-3 years. People change so there is the right to question there. It adds to the tension.

The people who didn't question him, ME2 squadmates, probably were okay after a loyalty mission and after the suicide mission. After you've been though something like that, you've got a bond and that was only 6 or so months ago.

If TIM was going to do anything, it would have been after Arrival but before the start of ME3.

[Aaleel]

MassEffectFShep wrote...

I agree. I initially thought it was because the VS was the only other Alliance/human squadmate in ME1 (and thus would be particularly wary of Cerberus), but then we don't really see people like Anderson questioning Shepard much at all.

Weird.

Go talk to Anderson after you finish Horizon.  He definitely didn't completely trust Shepard.

As far as anyone else, I don't see anyone who accompanied Shepard in ME2 would question Shepard's motives.  If he gave TIM the base maybe, but it her stopped the collectors, told TIM to shove it, and destroyed the base I don't see why anyone on the ME2 team would question him.

I think it was over the top from the VS, but they're the ones that make the most sense being they weren't with Shepard in ME2, they just thought he was working with Cerberus.

[ManOfSteel]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Maybe Wrex/Wreav when Cerberus shows up on Sur'Kesh. But I thought Ash and Kaidan were being ridiculous. Shepard is killing their troops, sabotaging their entire plan, and so obviously clueless. He didn't even order them to Mars himself, Hackett did, and Liara was in on it too. Do *they* both work for Cerberus now too?

Horizon I could understand. This, I don't. At some point you have to use a little common sense. I was disappointed at their writing-induced retardation.

It is later revealed that Cerberus has a somewhat inexhausable number of troops thanks to their "recruitment" tactics, and TIM seems willing to throw them in harms way. If Shepard were a sleeper agent, it would be make sense for TIM to allow Shepard to gun down some of his expendable soldiers.

[Clayless]

Well it's only really Garrus and Tali this affects.

[hiraeth]

Aaleel wrote...

MassEffectFShep wrote...

I agree. I initially thought it was because the VS was the only other Alliance/human squadmate in ME1 (and thus would be particularly wary of Cerberus), but then we don't really see people like Anderson questioning Shepard much at all.

Weird.

Go talk to Anderson after you finish Horizon.  He definitely didn't completely trust Shepard.

As far as anyone else, I don't see anyone who accompanied Shepard in ME2 would question Shepard's motives.  If he gave TIM the base maybe, but it her stopped the collectors, told TIM to shove it, and destroyed the base I don't see why anyone on the ME2 team would question him.

I think it was over the top from the VS, but they're the ones that make the most sense being they weren't with Shepard in ME2, they just thought he was working with Cerberus.

Here's the link of Anderson after Horizon for others: www.youtube.com/watch

Yeah, I get the I-don't-really-trust-you vibe from Anderson (arguably even a little bit from Tali as someone else already mentioned), but as far as actual questioning/accusing/blatant verbalized distrust, I feel that the VS really takes the cake. Even Anderson seems to direct it more at Cerberus ("I dont trust Cerberus and they might be lying to you") as opposed to Shepard directly.

And I agree that the VS's concerns were a bit over the top, even if they do make some sense.

[Mathias]

MegaSovereign wrote...

His actions against the Collectors pretty much gives him a free pass.

Why? TIM wanted the Collectors destroyed too. I can see why people would be more eager to trust him after that, but it wouldn't necessarily mean Shepard would be in the clear either.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Aside from everything else, Shepard can get a full medical examination early in ME2. Presumably he'd get one sometime before ME3 as well. That probably calmed down everyone who was actually involved.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Because if Shepard blew up the Collector base in ME2 and told TIM to stuff it, their fears are nothing more than paranoid delusions.

Now, if Shepard saved the base, I can understand that they would hold some concern. But even then, Shepard spend 6 months in alliance custody, I would guess the alliance had made quite a few medical checks on him to see whats up. And found no control chip.

[JamesFaith]

If I remember correct Tali was suspicious about Shepard too when they first met and Shepard convinced her about opposite later on Haelstrom.

[MegaSovereign]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

His actions against the Collectors pretty much gives him a free pass.

Why? TIM wanted the Collectors destroyed too. I can see why people would be more eager to trust him after that, but it wouldn't necessarily mean Shepard would be in the clear either.

Actually most of the Alliance thought that Cerberus was behind the attacks...And post-ME2 they still don't trust Cerberus.

[AresKeith]

Not enough people questioning your choices and actions

[JasonShepard]

Heck, right up until the Kronos mission was actually finished, I was expecting a Control-Chip-Surprise! in one of either Shepard or EDI (Eva). So no, I wasn't bothered by Ash questioning my Shepard, and yes, it is a little odd that everyone else was willing to accept him. Maybe Chakwas did an examination and vouched for him.

[GreyLycanTrope]

AresKeith wrote...

Not enough people questioning your choices and actions

I question your desire in wanting more people questioning your actions

[fiendishchicken]

I think it was stupid of them. Shepard earned their trust. Shepard is a damn hero.

I think Cerberus had a better plan. Convince Shepard to become loyal to them, by showing them what Cerberus stands for and what the alliances actions are. That's how Shepard became loyal to their cause.

The others all question Shepard's decision to work with Cerberus, but they give him the benefit of the doubt. The VS is upset, especially if romanced, simply because they have this big idea in their head of what the alliance is versus Cerberus. When Ashley calls him a traitor to everything he stands for, simply because he chooses to do it with Cerberus. Especially after the alliance pretty much condemns him. Yeah, my Shepard severs all ties after that point.

I wish I had the option to leave the VS to die on Mars.

[Zardoc]

 Well, some of your group didn't really have anything else to do.

You saved Garrus' ass, so he's in your debt, and aside from going with you, his options are to go back to Omega or try C-Sec again. Neither of which are appealing.

Tali owes you for saving her on both Freedom's Progress aswell as on Haestrom. 

Jack owes you for saving her from Purgatory.

Grunt is essentially your son.

Or, short: Pretty much everyone who joins you owes you. Quite a bit.


Also, Kaidan and Ash are ungrateful dicks. It's one thing to be suspicious. But they essentially call you a lunatic and traitor. Luckily Kaidan gets better.

Modifié par Zardoc, 13 janvier 2013 - 07:37 .

[fiendishchicken]

Zardoc wrote...

 Well, some of your group didn't really have anything else to do.

You saved Garrus' ass, so he's in your debt, and aside from going with you, his options are to go back to Omega or try C-Sec again. Neither of which are appealing.

Tali owes you for saving her on both Freedom's Progress aswell as on Haestrom. 

Jack owes you for saving her from Purgatory.

Grunt is essentially your son.

Or, short: Pretty much everyone who joins you owes you. Quite a bit.


Also, Kaidan and Ash are ungrateful dicks. It's one thing to be suspicious. But they essentially call you a lunatic and traitor. Luckily Kaidan gets better.

Kaidan's though was a little more jarring. He's the kind of rational guy who should be able to look at what Shepard is saying, and what Cerberus is doing, and be able to move past that.

I completely expected Ashley's reaction. All the more reason to hate her for it. Oh well, she gets her comeuppance when she's the only squadmate Shepard has removed in ME3 on the grounds of her breaking his, and the rest of the teams trust. Sometimes I even kill her on the coup.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

@DoomHK (can't quote, iPhone).

I considered that ~ Shepard going back to the Alliance as a sleeper agent, plus an understanding between him and TIM that Cerberus troops are expendable. But when it comes down to it, you can't worry about every little thing.

First, there should actually be something fishy going on to be suspicious about at all. The fact that both Shepard and Cerberus are there on Mars really isn't much. Now if they saw him do something that could possibly aid TIM's cause, THEN it would be understandable. Like maybe making a damning accusation of Liara and insisting the squad shoots her? Not like they can't find the data themselves.

If Shepard's on your side, that's a good thing -- goes without saying. If not, you have a problem that warrants extreme measures, but measures too extreme to be taken preemptively. And really, what good does it do to question at that point? He's not just going to admit being a traitor, and only become more furtive if he is one.

Unless they start seeing something really strange, more than just "oh look, you both showed up!" ... then I think they really ought to just put up and not worry about things they can't control.

[Mathias]

Zardoc wrote...

 Well, some of your group didn't really have anything else to do.

You saved Garrus' ass, so he's in your debt, and aside from going with you, his options are to go back to Omega or try C-Sec again. Neither of which are appealing.

Tali owes you for saving her on both Freedom's Progress aswell as on Haestrom. 

Jack owes you for saving her from Purgatory.

Grunt is essentially your son.

Or, short: Pretty much everyone who joins you owes you. Quite a bit.


Also, Kaidan and Ash are ungrateful dicks. It's one thing to be suspicious. But they essentially call you a lunatic and traitor. Luckily Kaidan gets better.

They never called me a lunatic. Did you just make that up?

Now just because they owed Shepard, doesn't mean they should completely trust him. Because again, what if Shepard did have a control chip in him? They wouldn't know, and that's the point. I think there are some people in this thread don't understand that part. Instead of focusing on who was and wasn't trusting him, and who was in the right, people should focus on the what if. If he had a control chip in him, could anyone really have blamed the VS?

If in ME3 Shepard did become a sleeper agent at some point (but was later saved), do you think most players would still be mad at the VS? I'm sure most of them would be rational enough to think, "Damn...i guess you were right to be cautious."

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 14 janvier 2013 - 02:54 .

[Mathias]

Also let's not forget that giving people lots of reason to trust someone, is one of the points of a sleeper agent. Shepard would've been perfect if TIM was smart enough to actually do this.