16 réponses à ce sujet

[Autoclave]

 Why did they give overload barrier stripping? What was the balancing reason behind it? In ME 3 it feels like you only need overload and incinerate to be able to deal with everything the game can throw at you. 

Why have 2 different shielding systems (shields and barriers) if we have powers that a able to strip them both? It feels like barriers are the inferior version because right now, on top of biotic powers being able to strip them, we also got tech powers.

It feels like the only real difference are the tech bursts and biotic explosions that are separate for both shielding systems.

In ME 2, engineer was not capable to remove all defenses alone.

[brad2240]

Autoclave wrote...

 In ME 3 it feels like you only need overload and incinerate to be able to deal with everything the game can throw at you. 

That is all you need. Just one of the reasons Engineer is my overall favorite class.

I have no idea why they changed it. Maybe they wanted to give Engineers some more utility, or maybe it was because they changed Warp. Given how few enemies you face with barriers in SP, I don't think it was a needed change but I can't say I've ever felt the need to complain about it.

It also might have something to do with MP balancing. I often wonder how many things were changed under the hood to better suit MP.

[Autoclave]

The question is, after this change to overload, does it warrant to have 2 different shield systems in game?

[capn233]

Autoclave wrote...

The question is, after this change to overload, does it warrant to have 2 different shield systems in game?

Not particularly.

Then again, you still have some powers that are better versus barriers than they are against shields.  Maybe they wanted to make sure combat mechanics were more convoluted.

[Soja57]

Well, lore-wise, barriers are essentially the same as shields, as both utilize mass effect fields to repel small, high-velocity objects. Therefore, Overload would theoretically affect both kinds of protections equally. The only difference is what's generating the shield. Normal shields are created through synthetic emitters, while barriers are created through the use of biotics from a biotic user.

I agree about questioning the point of 2 different shield systems. Stick with one and just be done with it. All we really need is Health, Armor, and Shields.

Modifié par Soja57, 14 janvier 2013 - 01:11 .

[mesteryoda]

Soja57 wrote...

Well, lore-wise, barriers are essentially the same as shields, as both utilize mass effect fields to repel small, high-velocity objects. Therefore, Overload would theoretically affect both kinds of protections equally. The only difference is what's generating the shield. Normal shields are created through synthetic emitters, while barriers are created through the use of biotics from a biotic user.

I agree about questioning the point of 2 different shield systems. Stick with one and just be done with it. All we really need is Health, Armor, and Shields.

I alwas thought "shields" were powered by a battery or powersource of some kind that was built into the armour, enabling the "normal shield" to get the energy needed.

Barries i thought was a biotic person just focusing a barrier around him/her mentaly.

Fyi, i do not claim to know this, as i have not read the codex for a very long while.

[CoffeeHolic93]

Something-something about tech powers having better base damage while biotic powers have better combos.

And then everything changed when the Fire Nation Fire Explosions attacked.

[Drayce333]

It has something to do more with how there are only 14 mooks in the game with one boss and only 2 of them have barriers.

tl:dr lazyware.

[jasonxxsatanna]

I remember reading some where that overload can strip barriers but not as efficiently as it does to shielding, just like CS is able to strip barriers but works less efficiently on Shields or armor....also if you notice incinerate works good on armor still can work on Shields and barriers but way less efficiently.

[Abraham_uk]

Overload, Energy Drain, Arc Grenades and Disruptor Ammo are decent against barriers.

Biotic explosions are the most devastating versus barriers.
For data on combo damage.


http://social.biowar...041340#14041340

[ZajoE38]

This was better in ME2 (as well as many other things). Incinerate to armor, warp to barrier, overload to shield. Period. Can this be modded?

[capn233]

ZajoE38 wrote...

This was better in ME2 (as well as many other things). Incinerate to armor, warp to barrier, overload to shield. Period. Can this be modded?

Quick glance at coalesced...

For Overload, shields and barriers must be counted as the same defense type, or barrier is not editable.  The only multipliers available are "shields" and "organic."

For Warp, there isn't any multiplier, except in the evolutions.  Half of the "Pierce" evolution is called "shielddamage," which has to be the barrier component.

I don't know if the values reside somewhere else.  I am looking at
biogame/sfxgamecontent/sfxpowercustomaction

[RedCaesar97]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I remember reading some where that overload can strip barriers but not as efficiently as it does to shielding, just like CS is able to strip barriers but works less efficiently on Shields or armor....also if you notice incinerate works good on armor still can work on Shields and barriers but way less efficiently.

Power damage multipliers to the different defenses can be found here.

Overload deals 3x (300%) damage to both shields and barriers. I think rank 6 evolution Shield Damage (+100% damage to shields) applies only to shields and not to Barriers.

As for Concussive Shot stripping barriers, Concussive Shot is so low damage, its 4x damage to Barriers is not all that noteworthy, considering that only Phantoms and Banshees have barriers by default.  Note that Adjutants also have barriers, and barrier engines can add barriers to all enemies in the vicinity.

[jasonxxsatanna]

Thanks RedC, I was close in my assumption, just didn't know the actual numbers

[capn233]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Overload deals 3x (300%) damage to both shields and barriers. I think rank 6 evolution Shield Damage (+100% damage to shields) applies only to shields and not to Barriers.

The "Shield Damage" evolution at Rank 6 is listed as applying to barriers and shields, and the multiplier is the same on Overload for shields and barrier damage.  The only thing that modifies Overload behavior based on enemy is the organic multiplier (0.5)

The math is screwy though, I dug up a thread with an explanation here.

Overload has these base properties:

Organic Health multiplier: 0.5
Geth Health multiplier: 1
Shield and barrier multiplier: 3

Neural Shock adds 100% damage to organics.  This is a separate damage call and is part of the reason this power behaves oddly.  So against an organic shield or barrier you essentially get B*(3+3).  Against organic health it is essentially B*(0.5+0.5).

Shield Damage is also unusual.  It "increases damage to barriers and shieldss by 100%."  Since this is Mass Effect, you know that it isn't straightforward:
Against Geth the shield multiplier is effectively doubled to 6x (as advertised, peculiar).
Against Organics, the multipler goes from 3 to 5x.

The Organic case is standard Mass Effect fare, where you add to a bonus and get an extra 100% of base damage, not total.

The bizarre bit is if you have both Neural Shock and Shield Damage and attack an organic barrier or shield.  In that case you get the extra 3x from Neural Shock, and the 5x from Shield Damage for B*(3+5)

[Darkstar Aurora]

Barriers are maintained by the nervous system of an organic being in concert with a biotic amplifier.
If an organic is hit with an electrical current (Overload), concussive force (Concussive Shot), or surrounded by an unstable and rapidly shifting mass effect field (Warp) they will naturally be unable to maintain the active or passive concentration needed to keep their defenses intact.
In addition a biotic amplifier and/or cybernetic implants can be short circuited just as easily as any other piece of technology.

[N7Kopper]

Darkstar Aurora wrote...

Barriers are maintained by the nervous system of an organic being in concert with a biotic amplifier.
If an organic is hit with an electrical current (Overload), concussive force (Concussive Shot), or surrounded by an unstable and rapidly shifting mass effect field (Warp) they will naturally be unable to maintain the active or passive concentration needed to keep their defenses intact.
In addition a biotic amplifier and/or cybernetic implants can be short circuited just as easily as any other piece of technology.

This. I always wondered why electrocuting someone (with Disruptor Ammo, as I play InfilShep) never worked when they had a biotic shield up. It's the same as a armour-mounted one, just the power sources are a bit different!

As for Energy Drain... I guess the amps have their own power source? There's a lot in this 'verse that isn't explained. But that still makes more sense than Shepard's Paladin having four shots and the N7 Special Ops' Paladins having three.