121 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Drells and N7 Shadow should not have their footsteps heard.

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

The "aggro system" in this game does not exist at all. If I'm in your match I'm the only target for the enemies until I am dead or the match is over. So erm yea ....

[Mjolinar]

Deathshroud09 wrote...

My biggest issue is when enemies start targeting a less viable target, and nothing but that target, as in......I'm in hard cover trying to shoot at a prime and every time I pop up I get gated because the prime is focusing on me. The kicker? Two of my teammates happen to be out of cover, in the open, in front of me, and spraying down the prime with impunity. This bothers the hell out of me.

More often we will all be out of cover and I'll be at the back of the pack, and yet I'm still the target of all the fire.

This happens so often. You'd think he'd re-evaluate and decide somebody else is a more pressing target. Perhaps it has something to do with the Combat Drone's scanning ability?

And nice post, very informative!

[Yate]

ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame wrote...

The "aggro system" in this game does not exist at all. If I'm in your match I'm the only target for the enemies until I am dead or the match is over. So erm yea ....

I hope this is a troll.

[Yate]

Still would like to know why the Prime's combat drone and the bomber's shock can see through cloak.

[121210Olivia]

Interesting take, thanks for this ;-)

[count_4]

Cyonan wrote...
> Distance to target
> Do they have a good line of sight on the target
> How injured is the target
> Who was their previous target
> Can they see the target

So the target evaluation is based entirely on passives and does not factor in player attacks? I'd have expected otherwise, good to know.

Also, great work as always. May I ask by what means you aquired all the info?

[Cyonan]

count_4 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...
> Distance to target
> Do they have a good line of sight on the target
> How injured is the target
> Who was their previous target
> Can they see the target

So the target evaluation is based entirely on passives and does not factor in player attacks? I'd have expected otherwise, good to know.

Also, great work as always. May I ask by what means you aquired all the info?

A lot of it was from in-game testing.

I also had a post from Brenon Holmes about how the enemy decides what to target, which I've found pretty solid when manipulating those factors in-game.

It's not based on how much damage you deal, though a very aggressive player can also make for what the enemy thinks is an easy target, making them targeted often.

Being aggressive often also means being the first target spoted.

[Javo2357]

Deerber wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

LegionofRannoch wrote...

again,

Cyonan is my hero.

Very informative. Great post as always, Cyonan.

[BridgeBurner]

CYONAN, I PLAYED TURRIN GOEST INFILTRATURR.

AND IMA USED TATICAL CLOCK

AND THEY STILL SHOOTA ME

Waaaaaaah, biower pls, buff TC it no work.

In other news, BSN is still adamant that cloak doesn't help shift aggro onto nearby team mates. They also think the world is flat, and the sky is green.

Modifié par Annomander, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:35 .

[N7Kopper]

Cyonan wrote...

The Rocket Trooper I suspect has to do with the cheat to see the entire map. They know where you are for a few seconds, and enemies with projectile attacks understand leading the target(even though their projectiles track at insane angles anyway), which leads them to firing perfectly timed rockets to the face when you round corners.

Our projectiles track at insane angles, too. The difference is, enemy dodges aren't as potent (so we can shoot them with bullets more easily) so they have a similar effect to chaff for our homing attacks. (Not that you didn't know this, just some of our more cynical and less mechanically-minded members)

-So this is the only instance that the cheat doesn't do as intended, and presents an actual advantage to the AI? This obviously needs to be patched out.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Drells and N7 Shadow should not have their footsteps heard.

Why not? Drell are just fast, not stealthy (except the infil) - and you can still hear a ninja walk.

Cyonan wrote...

count_4 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...
> Distance to target
> Do they have a good line of sight on the target
> How injured is the target
> Who was their previous target
> Can they see the target

So the target evaluation is based entirely on passives and does not factor in player attacks? I'd have expected otherwise, good to know.

Also, great work as always. May I ask by what means you aquired all the info?

A lot of it was from in-game testing.

I also had a post from Brenon Holmes about how the enemy decides what to target, which I've found pretty solid when manipulating those factors in-game.

It's not based on how much damage you deal, though a very aggressive player can also make for what the enemy thinks is an easy target, making them targeted often.

Being aggressive often also means being the first target spotted.

Thread's here, fyi.
EDIT: Oh, and quick question - is "how injured" based just off of health, or current total HP instead? And are gates factored in? (I doubt that one - the enemy can't even comprehend that Nova = immune to all non-grab attacks)

Modifié par N7Kopper, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:43 .

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...
Our projectiles track at insane angles, too. The difference is, enemy dodges aren't as potent (so we can shoot them with bullets more easily) so they have a similar effect to chaff for our homing attacks. (Not that you didn't know this, just some of our more cynical and less mechanically-minded members)

-So this is the only instance that the cheat doesn't do as intended, and presents an actual advantage to the AI? This obviously needs to be patched out.

What I've noticed is that our projectiles have insane tracking, but once the enemy dodges that's pretty much it for our projectiles, unless you have the radius upgrade and the dodge was at the last second then it'll hit the nearby ground and the radius allow for a hit.

For us it's the reverse. The only way to dodge an enemy projectile is to dodge at the last second or put something solid between you and it.

The cheat can also put cloaked Infiltrators in a bad spot if they spawn right next to them, since you'll think you're cloaked when the enemies can see you. Enemies aren't supposed to spawn right next to you, but they've certainly been known to do so.

Other than that though. the perfectly timed projectiles is the only time I can think of that gives them an advantage over us.

It'd be pretty comparable to gaining a map wide Hunter Mode for 1 second.

[Blarg]

Damn Cyonan, you're on a roll. Never stop.

[targaryen8]

Thanks a lot

[Grinch57]

Cyonan wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

Good info, thanks. Is it true that melee enemies always see through cloak?

What I've observed with them is that they'll do what every other unit does, which is simply target the idea where they think you are(usually this is where you cloaked at).

Where the they see through cloak comes from is most likely that since they are melee characters they will just run to the spot where you cloaked at, then get close enough to see you.

I can consistantly trick Dragoons and Brutes into running to the wrong spot of the map when I'm the only player by running away after cloaking.

I've gotten into the habit of cloaking my Volus as much as possible while running to the next thing, it pretty radically raises his survivability.

As always OP, great post, great info.  The Dude abides.

[Cyonan]

N7Kopper wrote...
EDIT: Oh, and quick question - is "how injured" based just off of health, or current total HP instead? And are gates factored in? (I doubt that one - the enemy can't even comprehend that Nova = immune to all non-grab attacks)

This is something I'd like to do a bit more testing on, but that is very hard to actually test for due to health not being the only factor in target priority.

I know that a target having a low % of health will raise their priority, however if the enemy saw a Drell and Krogan at the exact same time and same distance both at 100% health and shields, I'm not sure if they would favour the Drell over the Krogan.

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

Damn Cyonan, you're on a roll. Never stop.

I am running out of things to test that I can reliably test, though.

For now I've mostly returned to playing games of Mass Effect 3 and Hawken, which I've been playing a lot of lately(and also was playing while writing the OP)

Dual monitors is great =P

[Dunvi]

Cyonan I will stalk you over the internet so I can send you cookies and hand knit socks.

In all seriousness it always made sense to cloak between bursts to me, so this explains why I only ever have rants about melee units and cloak... also, if I am reading this correctly the best time to medi gel is while the enemies around you are in a firing cycle at someone else? My logic centers are borked (flying cross country) so anyone feel free to expand on this line of thought for me.

ETA freaking phone always auto"corrects" medigel to medical or median gel... that's it Emma save you in the dictionary!!!

Modifié par Dunvi, 13 janvier 2013 - 10:57 .

[Cyonan]

Dunvi wrote...

Cyonan I will stalk you over the internet so I can send you cookies and hand knit socks.

In all seriousness it always made sense to cloak between bursts to me, so this explains why I only ever have rants about melee units and cloak... also, if I am reading this correctly the best time to medical is while the enemies around you are in a firing cycle at someone else? My logic centers are borked (flying cross country) so anyone feel free to expand on this line of thought for me.

I always accept cookies =P

It wouldn't matter a whole lot for revival because of how it works.

The moment you start standing up, you're considered a fully living target by the AI(this is why you can be sync killed). It lasts ~5 seconds before you get control during which you cannot take damage outside of sync kills so most enemies will have gone through a re-targeting cycle by now, and you having no shields and not being in cover is not going to help your case.

Unfortunately the enemy doesn't understand that you can't take bullet damage during those 5 seconds so you're still considered a viable target.

[Dunvi]

Cyonan wrote...

Dunvi wrote...

Cyonan I will stalk you over the internet so I can send you cookies and hand knit socks.

In all seriousness it always made sense to cloak between bursts to me, so this explains why I only ever have rants about melee units and cloak... also, if I am reading this correctly the best time to medical is while the enemies around you are in a firing cycle at someone else? My logic centers are borked (flying cross country) so anyone feel free to expand on this line of thought for me.

I always accept cookies =P

It wouldn't matter a whole lot for revival because of how it works.

The moment you start standing up, you're considered a fully living target by the AI(this is why you can be sync killed). It lasts ~5 seconds before you get control during which you cannot take damage outside of sync kills so most enemies will have gone through a re-targeting cycle by now, and you having no shields and not being in cover is not going to help your case.

Unfortunately the enemy doesn't understand that you can't take bullet damage during those 5 seconds so you're still considered a viable target.

So the revive thing is just the enemies trolling us period, if you're the only one up? Great...

[Zero132132]

Do they target low-health and low-shields characters, or is it more that they target characters whose shields are gone entirely? Is it just if shields are down? Is it a proportional thing?

If they really do target stuff with less shields/health, that's pretty ****ed up for squishy classes.

[Cyonan]

Dunvi wrote...

So the revive thing is just the enemies trolling us period, if you're the only one up? Great...

Pretty much.

It gets even better if you're the only one left since enemies will cheat if they can't see a target, and if cheating doesn't provide a target(or downed target for execution in the case of certain enemies) then they just stand there not moving.

So the Phantoms will just camp on top of your body, waiting for you to medi-gel.

[Cyonan]

Zero132132 wrote...

Do they target low-health and low-shields characters, or is it more that they target characters whose shields are gone entirely? Is it just if shields are down? Is it a proportional thing?

If they really do target stuff with less shields/health, that's pretty ****ed up for squishy classes.

I've noticed enemies will be more likely to target me once I start getting lower on health. I'm not sure if this is % based or hard numbers based(which would be very bad for the Drell).

Unfortunately due to multiple factors in what makes you a priority target this is really hard to test for one way or the other.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Did you happen to find anything regarding what triggers mooks to go into kamikaze mode, where they abandon all tactics and just close on you while shooting in an attempt to melee you to death? As far as I can tell they don't seem to go out of this mode until they die.

They seem to me to be a lot harder to drop aggro when in this mode, as I've run across the map to lose them and still see them roll around a corner a few seconds later already firing at me. I can't find anything definitive that triggers it though, since sometimes they do it almost as soon as they spawn.

Sorry if slightly off topic. Just wondering if you saw anything about this while looking at enemy AI.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 13 janvier 2013 - 11:10 .

[Cyonan]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Did you happen to find anything regarding what triggers mooks to go into kamikaze mode, where they abandon all tactics and just close on you while shooting in an attempt to melee you to death? As far as I can tell they don't seem to go out of this mode until they die.

They seem to me to be a lot harder to drop aggro when in this mode, as I've run across the map to lose them and still see them roll around a corner a few seconds later already firing at me. I can't find anything definitive that triggers it though, since sometimes they do it almost as soon as they spawn.

Sorry if slightly off topic. Just wondering if you saw anything about this while looking at enemy AI.

They're harder to lose since they're following you, so it's harder to stay out of sight long enough for them to figure you're not a worthwhile target anymore. The two biggest factors I've noticed in testing that contributes to this is:

1. At some point the enemy will decide it is close enough that it wants to melee you. Once it does this it's hard for it to break out of it until it actually gets a melee off. I've found the range is not that short when deciding this, but they wont decide it at long ranges either.
2. Being the last enemy alive has a tendency to make most enemies go into this mode if they have a melee attack. I have seen some exceptions like the Scion or Ravager, but trash mobs that have melees all seem to want to do this when they're the last one left.

[Chealec]

Cyonan wrote...

...

Your footsteps make sound

This game does have sound mechanics in it, and your footsteps can give away your position. This only really applies while cloaked(they can clearly see you if you aren't =P), and running makes it worse.

What this means is that if an enemy hears you while invisible, they wont immediately know where you are but they can re-evaluate their next attack cycle to be at the spot where they heard you.

Players spotted via sound appear to be of the lowest priority, and if there is another target that is actually visible the enemy will often choose to go for them instead.

...

Just an addendum to this - it's not just footsteps that make sounds but powers too. Try using TacScan from cloak (with the bonus power evo so it doesn't break cloak) near a Marauder, they definitely "hear" it.

Weirdly, activating cloak actually makes a noise, so it's theoretically possible that you could alert something to your presence be activating TC whilst behind it... I think.