443 réponses à ce sujet

[Outsider edge]

Ultranovae wrote...

what are you talking about? all the endings end up in a good note with enough EMS.
You may wanna watch "Disney's Hercules" for a by the book happy ending.

The extended cut with high EMS just portrays the good effects of a particular ending while at the same time glancing over the potential horrifying acts Shepard has done. If Bioware had real trust in their endings in my opinion they should have shown all. So High EMS destroy for example would show worlds being rebuild, mass relays being rebuild etc. But at the same time it would show the negative effects of that ending like Joker burying EDI and the Geth genocide.

What we got was all happy news while at the same time glancing over the negative aspects of the ending. Even high EMS endings don't change the fact that in destroy you kill all synthetic life and in synthesis you turn everyone into cyborgs against their will.

[Outsider edge]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maturity is accepting you can't always get what you want. Are you right to put your needs above the needs of BW and their right to use the property in ways they feel will benefit the company as a whole?

One could question if this whole ending ruckus has benefitted the company. Make no mistake this IP has been damaged quite abit by the whole ordeal. Too what extent will only become visible once Mass Effect 4 is released.

And that's also the difficult aspect of it all. The hot debates going on in this forum are between two very small minority groups. It's the silent majority which in the end will decide on the extent of the damage the Mass Effect IP has sustained through all this. If for example Mass Effect 4 ends up selling 2 million copies it means over 50% of the Mass Effect 3 customers have walked.

The extended cut and all the payed DLC that came afterwards have in all likelyhood very little influence on this since the vast majority of people that bought Mass Effect 3 had stopped playing long before that additional content was released.

[78stonewobble]

I'd also like to point out that world war 2. The biggest artificial tragedy we have ever forced upon ourselves did not end with the rest of the world killing themselves off/or just giving up out of inspired nihilism.

People find good even in extremes. People carry on, fall in love, get married, have children and what not of all that fluffy stuff even after great tragedies.

[Benchpress610]

Killdren88 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.

Chris, Face it. This is not going away. until it becomes a forum rule not allowed to talk about it.

Whoa, careful there buddy…don’t give them any ideas…

[clarkusdarkus]

ME3 has tarnished the good name of ME and followed a trend of mediocre gaming from bioware as of late with DA2/TOR/ME3..... Nearly a year has gone by and yet still the ending will take precedent over all things ME( no matter how good MP is, that will wear off after time )....Whenever a ME title is
Mentioned from now on, the ending will be mentioned in the same breath, people wont fall for they're pre release jargon either before ME4 as it's proven to be lies...... We don't know dlc sales and ME4 is nowhere near completion, all we know is they continue to state they are done with the endings.....and yet it's the one thing that will get a shedload of fans back, other companys have done the same. But then they're new fanbase who only played ME3 and continue to play MP will buy ME4 anyway so what do bioware care when they're still selling millions. Wasn't that the target, to get the shooter gears crowd?

[Lunch Box1912]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

ME3 has tarnished the good name of ME and followed a trend of mediocre gaming from bioware as of late with DA2/TOR/ME3..... Nearly a year has gone by and yet still the ending will take precedent over all things ME( no matter how good MP is, that will wear off after time )....Whenever a ME title is
Mentioned from now on, the ending will be mentioned in the same breath, people wont fall for they're pre release jargon either before ME4 as it's proven to be lies...... We don't know dlc sales and ME4 is nowhere near completion, all we know is they continue to state they are done with the endings.....and yet it's the one thing that will get a shedload of fans back, other companys have done the same. But then they're new fanbase who only played ME3 and continue to play MP will buy ME4 anyway so what do bioware care when they're still selling millions. Wasn't that the target, to get the shooter gears crowd?

Yeah,  thats why we the poor saps who don't care for shooters that were sucked in by the first two games sinking in hours of gameplay are up in arms about it. We feel duped.

[Ultranovae]

Outsider edge wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

what are you talking about? all the endings end up in a good note with enough EMS.
You may wanna watch "Disney's Hercules" for a by the book happy ending.

The extended cut with high EMS just portrays the good effects of a particular ending while at the same time glancing over the potential horrifying acts Shepard has done. If Bioware had real trust in their endings in my opinion they should have shown all. So High EMS destroy for example would show worlds being rebuild, mass relays being rebuild etc. But at the same time it would show the negative effects of that ending like Joker burying EDI and the Geth genocide.

What we got was all happy news while at the same time glancing over the negative aspects of the ending. Even high EMS endings don't change the fact that in destroy you kill all synthetic life and in synthesis you turn everyone into cyborgs against their will.

 well, they don't for 2 reasons: 1) it would make the endings unnecessary longer. 2) it's simply a matter of tone, they rather leave off on a triumphant note  rather than one of massive casualties. Since this is your prefered ending they want you to feel good about your choice, in other words they want you to feel that the sacrifice was worth it.

Modifié par Ultranovae, 17 janvier 2013 - 01:35 .

[insomniac13]

Damn. It's been nearly a year and Bioware STILL stands by that ****ty ending?
Artistic Integrity at its finest folks!

If the only thing Bioware is working on are more filler campaigns (ala Omega) i doubt i'll buy any more ME3 DLC.

Modifié par insomniac13, 17 janvier 2013 - 01:50 .

[kinna]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

There's the MEHEM ending mod if you want a happy ending in game.

the user plays on xbox ... no happy ending for xbox users.

I got a happy ending on xbox. Sure, it was a bit sad that EDI and the Geth had to die but at least the Reapers were destroyed and the cycle stopped. Now all the remaining races can go on living without anyone but themselves choosing their own fate.

[kinna]

Ghaleon80 wrote...

It's already happening with Dragon Age 3. i see alot of posts about how much of a disappointment ME3 was then people asking DA3 devs if they can expect the same.

The arrogance of some of the developers on the ME3 team is astounding, people didn't like ending a lot of people solution is fix it simple as that, EC did not do this.

Good thing there are some companies willing to admit they fouled up and fix mistakes like Bethesda with Fallout 3 ending, Bioware could learn a lot from them.

Or perhaps if Bioware would look back at their own history to see the company they once were before they sold out, could give them the insight they need to see how they messed up.

The arrogance of some of the users on these forums is astounding.

[Darth_Trethon]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.

I hope for BioWare's sake that you are either plain repeating old info since nobody told you anything different in months or plain lying(as you so often have in the past)......because if you happen to be right BioWare has another thing coming and I seriously doubt they'll be happy....BioWare will learn the impact of a completely alienated and pissed off fanbase on future game sales(ME4 especially and even DA3 will be impacted). I'm sure that after collosal failures like TOR and the ME3 ending that saw the game's sales come to a premature screeching halt and had its price cut within one month BioWare will be more than happy to see just how few will buy ME4.

I don't think you get it.....all the EC did was to make people loose hope, shut up and go away....all the ME4 hype will do is reopen old wounds and not only will people not buy ME4 but they will deter their friends from buying. With the competitive gaming market these days there's always more games to choose from than one can buy and it's all too easy to just go for something else.....what you have ruined was your dedicated fanbase, the loyal core that helped spred positive word and hype and for every one of these there would be ten more buying....the effect of goodwill and happy fans is a lot more shares on facebook and retweets on twitter and positive conversations about the game with friends.

On top of that BioWare has nothing but public figures like you who only tell people to go away.....that serves really well for earning goodwill.

[GiarcYekrub]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.

Thankyou, Don't cave, Hold the line

[ME859]

Avoiding an attempt at a happy reunion ending because some people might not like it is akin to the BCS in college football avoiding a playoff all these years because the bubble teams will still complain that they were left out.

I've said it repeatedly, drop the artistic vision shield and make an alternate ending that combined true fan feedback with the talent of the writing staff that gave us Tuchanka and Rannoch. Then charge for it, many of us are not asking Bioware to do it for free this time. Does it set a bad precedent, sure but it will likely improve the experience tenfold for a lot of people, and lets face it, it would eventually be free.

[Outsider edge]

Ultranovae wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

what are you talking about? all the endings end up in a good note with enough EMS.
You may wanna watch "Disney's Hercules" for a by the book happy ending.

The extended cut with high EMS just portrays the good effects of a particular ending while at the same time glancing over the potential horrifying acts Shepard has done. If Bioware had real trust in their endings in my opinion they should have shown all. So High EMS destroy for example would show worlds being rebuild, mass relays being rebuild etc. But at the same time it would show the negative effects of that ending like Joker burying EDI and the Geth genocide.

What we got was all happy news while at the same time glancing over the negative aspects of the ending. Even high EMS endings don't change the fact that in destroy you kill all synthetic life and in synthesis you turn everyone into cyborgs against their will.

 well, they don't for 2 reasons: 1) it would make the endings unnecessary longer. 2) it's simply a matter of tone, they rather leave off on a triumphant note  rather than one of massive casualties. Since this is your prefered ending they want you to feel good about your choice, in other words they want you to feel that the sacrifice was worth it.

They could have extended the extended cut abit longer without a hitch it would only have reguired adding a few extra slides. But as u said they likely opted for a "happy" yet unrealistic epilogue where all the good was magnified and all the bad things were left out just so players wouldn't feel bad about their choices. If true that means the writers responsible for the extended cut tried too cover up some of the more severe outcomes of specific choices just too put it in a better light.

Fact of the matter is the following:

Destroy your Shepard commits genocide and murder.
Synthesis your Shepard violates every species and turn them into cyborgs without consent.
Control your Shepard becomes somekind of dictatorial watcher that will put it's boot down the moment things don't go as he/she wants aka Catalyst 2.0.

The only ending where Bioware in my opinion gave the full spread has been the control ending. And only through dialogue all the other endings were glanced over too give a PG-13 version.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 17 janvier 2013 - 02:55 .

[3DandBeyond]

Outsider edge wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

what are you talking about? all the endings end up in a good note with enough EMS.
You may wanna watch "Disney's Hercules" for a by the book happy ending.

The extended cut with high EMS just portrays the good effects of a particular ending while at the same time glancing over the potential horrifying acts Shepard has done. If Bioware had real trust in their endings in my opinion they should have shown all. So High EMS destroy for example would show worlds being rebuild, mass relays being rebuild etc. But at the same time it would show the negative effects of that ending like Joker burying EDI and the Geth genocide.

What we got was all happy news while at the same time glancing over the negative aspects of the ending. Even high EMS endings don't change the fact that in destroy you kill all synthetic life and in synthesis you turn everyone into cyborgs against their will.

Exactly.  Look at Synthesis.  EDI says they may transcend mortality itself (become immortal).  That's one minor point compared to the logistics of how Synthesis could even happen or what it could and would do, but if that's possible then show it.  Krogan having babies, Rachni alive?  Good luck with that.  Anyone ever heard of over-population?  When has that ever been a problem for the galaxy with the Krogan and Rachni having babies?  But why not show even the immediate aftereffects?  What does Synthesis really do-organics are changed at the DNA level and synthetics gain understanding of organics.  What the hell does that mean for them and everything else?  Organics no longer exist, so synthetics understand something that is gone.  But what is that understanding and where does it come from?  And then, as you say, there's rebuilding still to be done.  It's absolutely ridiculous to think there'd be no problem in all of this, that everyone would instantly work together.  If they do then they're doing it wrong.

Control too would have real problems.  Why not show the reality that would exist?  I don't think anyone could seriously believe that the whole galaxy would be super happy the reapers still are around.  I don't care if they are fixing everything.  They turned people into goo.  They killed millions, if not billions, this cycle alone.  So, it is ridiculous to think that a lot of people would not want them gone.  Conflict, anyone?  Real people do not want mass murderers helping to clean up the mess they made.  They want them gone-if not dead, gone away.

Destroy creates a harsh reality and a new relationship between organics and synthetics that will one day be built again.  The immediate future would be really difficult at best, with all tech damaged.  But, we don't even get any kind of understanding of what destruction to synthetics means.  Is it just synthetic life?  Is it even synthetic life?  And tech is synthetic, so if it means all synthetic things are destroyed, then all tech should be destroyed.  If it means just synthetic life, then why does the kid say that even Shepard is part synthetic-what does that have to do with it?

The cutscenes and slides are just out of place.  Great voice acting and all, but out of place and they do gloss over just what has happened to and will happen to the galaxy.

[Bob Garbage]

You want a ****ing happy ending, go to a rub and tug.

[3DandBeyond]

Outsider edge wrote...

They could have extended the extended cut abit longer without a hitch it would only have reguired adding a few extra slides. But as u said they likely opted for a "happy" yet unrealistic epilogue where all the good was magnified and all the bad things were left out just so players wouldn't feel bad about their choices. If true that means the writers responsible for the extended cut tried too cover up some of the more severe outcomes of specific choices just too put it in a better light.

Fact of the matter is the following:

Destroy your Shepard commits genocide and murder.
Synthesis your Shepard violates every species and turn them into cyborgs without consent.
Control your Shepard becomes somekind of dictatorial watcher that will put it's boot down the moment things don't go as he/she wants aka Catalyst 2.0.

The only ending where Bioware in my opinion gave the full spread has been the control ending. And only through dialogue all the other endings were glanced over too give a PG-13 version.

Though I'd much rather they didn't do the slideshow, I understand why they did.  It was because they created a real problem in the original endings by saying through many things that the relay destruction should have destroyed the galaxy, and then the original endings did not show that.  But people were outraged that A) BW felt it necessary to destroy the whole galaxy and That that is not what the original ending showed happened.  The whole ending made no sense, but it particularly made no sense AFTER the relays exploded.  Nothing should have existed past that point.  BW then claimed they never meant that to be the case-except that is what they constantly said inside the game and outside the game.  They said that is what would happen.  They released the EC and said they couldn't understand why fans thought the galaxy would be destroyed (gee, only because you kept saying it, BW).  The slides exist to show that everything is super duper ok in the galaxy.  I dislike them intensely, for this and many other reasons.  The main thing is they don't show what should really happen.  And they don't show even the glimmer of a real consequence.  It's like "too bad, you died.  Too bad the galaxy is a mess.  Look at these pictures and smile."

Control does at least provide some context within the cutscene and what Control Shepard says.  It's also got music that is ominous.  The implication is clear.  Shepard's voice is not just Shepard's-so this is no longer Shepard.  And, my full paragon says that Shepard knew she had to become something greater-this is not in keeping with what a paragon thinks at all.  She talks about the Many, but again this was never about sheer numbers for my paragon.  It was about heart and soul and the importance of even one life.  It's in direct contrast with what my paragon believed and what was said-my Shepard did believe she could save them everyone.  She never was obedient to the machine like the Turian war machine, where if even only one Turian is left alive, then the war was won, or the Prothean war machine where people are used like cannon fodder in order to save others who are truly important.  That non-Shepard in Control raises the question of which Many does she protect?  If the Batarians that are left want to find a new home and that is in conflict with what others want, who wins, who lives, who dies?  Control does show more of a context, but then the slides don't. 

[macrocarl]

It's a bitter sweet ending no matter what you pick. It's not flat out sad unless you have low EMS.

[Sanunes]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.

I hope for BioWare's sake that you are either plain repeating old info since nobody told you anything different in months or plain lying(as you so often have in the past)......because if you happen to be right BioWare has another thing coming and I seriously doubt they'll be happy....BioWare will learn the impact of a completely alienated and pissed off fanbase on future game sales(ME4 especially and even DA3 will be impacted). I'm sure that after collosal failures like TOR and the ME3 ending that saw the game's sales come to a premature screeching halt and had its price cut within one month BioWare will be more than happy to see just how few will buy ME4.

I don't think you get it.....all the EC did was to make people loose hope, shut up and go away....all the ME4 hype will do is reopen old wounds and not only will people not buy ME4 but they will deter their friends from buying. With the competitive gaming market these days there's always more games to choose from than one can buy and it's all too easy to just go for something else.....what you have ruined was your dedicated fanbase, the loyal core that helped spred positive word and hype and for every one of these there would be ten more buying....the effect of goodwill and happy fans is a lot more shares on facebook and retweets on twitter and positive conversations about the game with friends.

On top of that BioWare has nothing but public figures like you who only tell people to go away.....that serves really well for earning goodwill.

I probably wouldn't buy Mass Effect 4 if the cave to the BSN for that is what made Mass Effect 3 bad in my eyes for so much content that bothered me is what these boards were begging for. I might not be part of the majority, but I doubt I am alone in this feeling.

[Kel Riever]

There is a silver lining to the atrocious thing they call ending(s) for Mass Effect 3. They serve as the pinnacle example of what never to do. And in that regard, they have value. It shows people what the bottom of a trip over a high cliff looks like. Not that it won't stop some other fool company from doing the same thing, but it will certainly serve at a landmark when that other fool company does, that they should have known better. I mean, you'd think BioWare should have known better, but they obviously didn't have the talent we all thought they did.

You know, Custard probably thought he was doing a really good job. Right up until the point he was killed.

[GiarcYekrub]

Outsider edge wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

Ultranovae wrote...

what are you talking about? all the endings end up in a good note with enough EMS.
You may wanna watch "Disney's Hercules" for a by the book happy ending.

The extended cut with high EMS just portrays the good effects of a particular ending while at the same time glancing over the potential horrifying acts Shepard has done. If Bioware had real trust in their endings in my opinion they should have shown all. So High EMS destroy for example would show worlds being rebuild, mass relays being rebuild etc. But at the same time it would show the negative effects of that ending like Joker burying EDI and the Geth genocide.

What we got was all happy news while at the same time glancing over the negative aspects of the ending. Even high EMS endings don't change the fact that in destroy you kill all synthetic life and in synthesis you turn everyone into cyborgs against their will.

 well, they don't for 2 reasons: 1) it would make the endings unnecessary longer. 2) it's simply a matter of tone, they rather leave off on a triumphant note  rather than one of massive casualties. Since this is your prefered ending they want you to feel good about your choice, in other words they want you to feel that the sacrifice was worth it.

They could have extended the extended cut abit longer without a hitch it would only have reguired adding a few extra slides. But as u said they likely opted for a "happy" yet unrealistic epilogue where all the good was magnified and all the bad things were left out just so players wouldn't feel bad about their choices. If true that means the writers responsible for the extended cut tried too cover up some of the more severe outcomes of specific choices just too put it in a better light.

Fact of the matter is the following:

Destroy your Shepard commits genocide and murder.
Synthesis your Shepard violates every species and turn them into cyborgs without consent.
Control your Shepard becomes somekind of dictatorial watcher that will put it's boot down the moment things don't go as he/she wants aka Catalyst 2.0.

The only ending where Bioware in my opinion gave the full spread has been the control ending. And only through dialogue all the other endings were glanced over too give a PG-13 version.

Well its the end to raise the negatives you do would leave a sense of the story being unfinshed, the issues that you talk about can be addressed at a later date in like ME4 maybe

[Reth Shepherd]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Maturity is accepting you can't always get what you want. Are you right to put your needs above the needs of BW and their right to use the property in ways they feel will benefit the company as a whole?

Maturity is accepting that one has to be willing to work (or fight) for what one wants, and that there is likely to be a price for it. In this case, I accept that any alternate ending is going to come with a price tag, and I've already accepted that I'm willing to pay twice what I would for a normal DLC.

Am I right to put my needs above the needs of Bioware? In this case, "right" and wrong are gray areas, and only time will tell who is truly in the right. But am I WILLING to put my needs higher? Yes. I was a paying customer, and I shelled out $80 for something that turned out to be not at all what they said I was going to be getting. Like an idiot, I waited until the EC came out to try and get my refund because I trusted that Bioware was going to make things right. The only people who got their money back are the people who didn't trust Bioware and demanded their refunds right away. Everyone else is still stuck with a no-go ending AND they're out their money. (Though the people I REALLY feel for are those who trusted Bioware so much that they conceived of the Puzzle Theory and tossed yet MORE good money after bad.) As a paying customer, I feel I do indeed have the right to ask them to give me what they said I was going to be getting.

Is this really going to benefit Bioware/EA as a whole? When a large chunk of their target audience has gone from MUST HAVE NOW to 'ignore the hype, check player reviews, Youtube, and then maybe rent first'? Trust has been shattered, when it would have been so easy to fix. The very people who used to be the first to talk up Mass Effect (free advertising) are now the ones telling potential customers to stay far, far away. DA3 is already feeling the effects (not that DA2 helped much). Is that game going to sell as well as it would have, had ME3 been a rousing success? Is rushing unfinished, unpolished games out the door going to help Bioware as a company? Sure it works great in the short term, more games in a short period means more sales, but those sales dry up quickly as people realize that they're getting junk. (Check EA's kill list, they've destroyed quite a few game developers by doing precisely this. This particular one isn't Bioware's fault, it's EA's.) How is ignoring or putting down customers going to increase sales? How is telling people that they can't get what they want out of a game going to increase sales? Let me ask you again, how is ANY of Bioware's current strategy going to help the company?

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 17 janvier 2013 - 04:14 .

[Reth Shepherd]

Sanunes wrote...

I probably wouldn't buy Mass Effect 4 if the cave to the BSN for that is what made Mass Effect 3 bad in my eyes for so much content that bothered me is what these boards were begging for. I might not be part of the majority, but I doubt I am alone in this feeling.

Such as what? I'm curious now.

@GiarcYekrub: I saw your sig and just HAD to respond! Han shot. Period. Greedo never even got to squeeze the trigger.

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 17 janvier 2013 - 04:21 .

[Bob Garbage]

If I do buy any more BioWare games, they will be used and it will be months after release.

[Sanunes]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Sanunes wrote...

I probably wouldn't buy Mass Effect 4 if the cave to the BSN for that is what made Mass Effect 3 bad in my eyes for so much content that bothered me is what these boards were begging for. I might not be part of the majority, but I doubt I am alone in this feeling.

Such as what? I'm curious now.

I can't guarentee that these features are only because it was on the BSN, but the things I had problems with felt tacked on and rushed were things that were constant posts about on the BSN.

-Multiple Endings 
-All squad members returning / Favorite squadmember returning
-Not having numbers hidden like the Sucide Mission leading to the War Asset system
-Major decisions to impact the game from previous games (some worked and some didn't such as the Rachni)

There are probably more, but those are the ones that stick out the most.  I am not saying having them in the game was bad idea, but that they way they were implemented felt tacked on just to give the people what they were asking for.  Of course this was compounded by all the PR around those topics as well, which made those features more important or a bigger part of the game then what they were.

Of course this is all from my experience and people's milage with those features/ideas will probably differ.

To break it down a little more, I don't mind having multiple endings, but at the same time I was expecting something more like what has been in every BioWare game I can remember with it being solely based on the choice at the end and all the choices have next to no impact on the ending and frankly I think Control and Destory are two perfectly acceptable ending choices, but the whole levels of the endings annoyed me, for to get to see the different variations would be near impossible for me.

I think I would have enjoyed the returning squadmembers more if they limited it more and had it function more like how Ashley and Kaiden worked with the Virmire survivor choice, which is you have two or three of your squad returing from Mass Effect 2 (besides the ones you already get as a party member) and fully establish those characters and even give the choice of telling them you don't want them on your crew.  That would be how I would have liked it at least.

This I was indifferent to in Mass Effect 2, but I know people were complaining near launch that they had no idea what the loyality or the right crew member would do for their ending especially if they only play the game once.  So the inclusion of a War Asset system sounded like a great idea on paper, but implemented it really barely meant anything.

There were a few inclusions from previous games spread out across the game, one of the ones I like the most is the Genephage Cure, for its a tough decision yes and could be only because you consider making the wrong choices, but Killing Wrex and Destroying the Cure in the previous games gives you the choice to spare Mordin which was exactly what I was expecting for choices to carry forward, but the way the Rachni were handled bothered me, for it was identical if you spared the queen or killed her, just with slightly different dialogue and War Assets.