Aller au contenu

Photo

Bioware please just create a happy ending DLC for heaven sakes and call it a trilogy what the heck is the big deal???


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
443 réponses à ce sujet

#176
thehomeworld

thehomeworld
  • Members
  • 1 562 messages
People don't NEED a happy ending people just want to have an ending that is plausible to the universe using whats already in the universe and a dna dispensing machine was never part of it

It actually goes against the themes and technology in the universe which is why people don't like it. We were given a new antagonist, a brand new mystical machine, and a brand new goal that beat everything we'd done for 3 games into the ground and this was all suppose to be explained, loreitised, expanded upon, and digested in 14 lines that's not how you do that.

Compare that to all 3 games were we had explained, loreitised, expanded upon the war with the reapers, their threat level, how they would impact everyone and everything, and that they had multiple fronts by which to attack us on this was digested by the players then starkid brings that to a screeching hault for I'm a poorly programed AI?

BW should skip doing any other DLCs for the pre reaper war and focus on doing expansion packs for the post reaper war.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:06 .


#177
Guest_magnetite_*

Guest_magnetite_*
  • Guests

thehomeworld wrote...

People don't NEED a happy ending people just want to have an ending that is plausible to the universe using whats already in the universe and a dna dispensing machine was never part of it

It actually goes against the themes and technology in the universe which is why people don't like it. We were given a new antagonist, a brand new mystical machine, and a brand new goal that beat everything we'd done for 3 games into the ground and this was all suppose to be explained, loreitised, expanded upon, and digested in 14 lines that's not how you do that.

Compare that to all 3 games were we had explained, loreitised, expanded upon the war with the reapers, their threat level, how they would impact everyone and everything, and that they had multiple fronts by which to attack us on this was digested by the players then starkid brings that to a screeching hault for I'm a poorly programed AI?

BW should skip doing any other DLCs for the pre reaper war and focus on doing expansion packs for the post reaper war.


I think the closest thing you are going to get is just more expansion of the ending, because Bioware would never throw out their vision for the ending (eg. the Starchild) and replace it with something with fan influenced material which may or may not be accurate.

People say the Starchild contradicts the lore, but is it possible he could just be lying to you? I mean he basically says he represents the Reapers interests (eg. I'm here to find a solution to chaos. Organics=chaos, Reapers=order). There is no lore contradictions there. He tells you that organics and synthetics can't get along, yet, like I said earlier, he works for the Reapers, not organics best interests. Do not trust this kid.  He's not your friend.

#178
Dark_Caduceus

Dark_Caduceus
  • Members
  • 3 305 messages

chidingewe8036 wrote...

 I know they want people to talk about their game and remember it but whether people want to see it or not the option needs to be there if only to close out the trilogy with the option at least, it does not all have to be all doom and gloom ending choices. It would solidify Shepard's journey and truly give everyone peace of mind and move on to the next story with slightly better feelings.


Even if they created a happy ending the game would suck ass. The ending is a symptom of bad writing, a clumination if you will, not the sole game-shattering instance.

#179
Belisarius25

Belisarius25
  • Members
  • 699 messages
Considering how Bioware's response to "We want to be able to refuse the Catalyst's choices" turned out, I'm not sure why people think demanding/begging/asking Bioware to give a 'happy ending' it clearly isn't interested in writing is a good idea.

#180
GiarcYekrub

GiarcYekrub
  • Members
  • 706 messages

thehomeworld wrote...
People don't NEED a happy ending people just want to have an ending that is plausible to the universe using whats already in the universe and a dna dispensing machine was never part of it


Eh? What about element zero exposure on biotics, or the genophage both show mass dna manipulation in the mass effect universe

#181
Iakus

Iakus
  • Members
  • 30 338 messages

Belisarius25 wrote...

Considering how Bioware's response to "We want to be able to refuse the Catalyst's choices" turned out, I'm not sure why people think demanding/begging/asking Bioware to give a 'happy ending' it clearly isn't interested in writing is a good idea.


Because we still hope that at some point Bioware will take the desires of fans seriously, rather than simply trolling them.

#182
NightAntilli

NightAntilli
  • Members
  • 403 messages
If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.

#183
mastero87

mastero87
  • Members
  • 173 messages
I wonder when people will finally understand that Bioware's not going to create a new ending. My guess is... well, never.

Modifié par mastero87, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:55 .


#184
dreamgazer

dreamgazer
  • Members
  • 15 752 messages

NightAntilli wrote...

If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.


:crying:

Puts the show to shame.

#185
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

john_sheparrd wrote...

^ me too
I wonder if bioware even realizes how much money they could make from such a dlc


Roughly Zero dollars. I'd hate to imagine the fecal storm if Bioware did a 'Happy Ending' dlc and actually charged for it. Especially since that dlc still wouldn't satisfy all the people that are still obsessing over 10 months later.

#186
AnsinJung

AnsinJung
  • Members
  • 247 messages
I don't primarily want a happy ending. I want one that makes sense. If that ending happens to be happy when I beat the Reapers, great. I should feel as though I earned it--not that I pressed the right button or played a MP marathon before going to Cerberus.

I realize that achieving victory when dealing with overpowered creatures like the Reapers would be silly if accomplished with spit and bullets alone, but that's still better than pushing buttons A, B, or C (or Refuse, rofl). That's probably why one of the most common suggestions has been to retcon the Crucible to bring down the Reapers' shields.

That may still feel a bit cheap, but it's a heck of a lot better than the current endings. That beats having a little chat with ghost kid and hearing an endless train of non-logic spouted by a supposedly higher intelligence.

Besides, with the Citadel being manhandled and every capital planet already having been invaded, any celebration Shepard and the survivors can have afterward would be well-earned.

#187
Reth Shepherd

Reth Shepherd
  • Members
  • 1 437 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

john_sheparrd wrote...

^ me too
I wonder if bioware even realizes how much money they could make from such a dlc


Roughly Zero dollars. I'd hate to imagine the fecal storm if Bioware did a 'Happy Ending' dlc and actually charged for it. Especially since that dlc still wouldn't satisfy all the people that are still obsessing over 10 months later.


MEHEM, MEEM, and Marauder Shields say 'hi'. If Bioware made a new ending to the 'quality' of the EC, then yes, people will continue to be unhappy. If they lose the 'frell you' attitude, then I think the chances of a new ending or three being accepted are very good. I would not only buy a better ending, but would then purchase additional DLC (that I'm currently boycotting). That's anywhere from $25-$35 they'd be getting from me, and I've seen similar sentiments. So it's not just how much they'd be getting from that DLC alone, but how much they'd make from other DLC purchased as people come back, stop boycotting, or simply have a reason to play again. On that last note: did you know that ME3 DLC sales picked up somewhat when the MEHEM was created? It's a fan mod, not a Bioware ending DLC, and yet having something better to look forward to at the end gave some people a reason to purchase additions to the game.

TL:DR, a decent ending DLC would make money, likely more than Omega.

#188
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages
You have access to ME3 DLC sales numbers? Well I guess you countered me there.

#189
Kel Riever

Kel Riever
  • Members
  • 7 065 messages

NightAntilli wrote...

If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.


Some people do not read.  Like this poster.

#190
Reth Shepherd

Reth Shepherd
  • Members
  • 1 437 messages

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You have access to ME3 DLC sales numbers? Well I guess you countered me there.


Numbers? No. Comparative sales? Yes, thanks to the Xbox Live Marketplace. This post, made a few days back, shows all Mass Effect DLC ordered by how well it sold. I'm aware that ME1 and ME2's DLC has had years longer to accumulate sales, but let me point out that From Ashes is #2 on that list while Levi is #16 and Omega is #21, beating only two DLCs in number of sales (the Groundside Pack and the ME3 Alternate Appearance Pack, for the record). It also explains where and how I got my numbers, in case you want to check it yourself. Not only that, but someone made a similar list about a month ago (found on Page 2 of the same thread), and Omega has barely budged from the bottom of the list.

Modifié par Reth Shepherd, 15 janvier 2013 - 04:05 .


#191
dreamgazer

dreamgazer
  • Members
  • 15 752 messages

Kel Riever wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.


Some people do not read.  Like this poster.


It's not a mind-set you'll be able to break, Kel.  They don't realize that many of the people who voice concern with the endings would still appreciate bleak, bittersweet tones about sacrifice and denfeselessness, just in a more logical context. 

#192
dreamgazer

dreamgazer
  • Members
  • 15 752 messages

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You have access to ME3 DLC sales numbers? Well I guess you countered me there.


Numbers? No. Comparative sales? Yes, thanks to the Xbox Live Marketplace. This post, made a few days back, shows all Mass Effect DLC ordered by how well it sold. I'm aware that ME1 and ME2's DLC has had years longer to accumulate sales, but let me point out that From Ashes is #2 on that list while Levi is #16 and Omega is #21, beating only TWO DLCs in number of sales (the Groundside Pack and the ME3 Alternate Appearance Pack, for the record). It also explains where and how I got my numbers, in case you want to check it yourself. Not only that, but someone made a similar list about a month ago (found on Page 2 of the same thread), and Omega has barely budged from the bottom of the list.


The thing that leads me to question the XBLA ranking charts and their veracity is that those rankings haven't really shifted since I looked at them a few months ago. Something appears to be snagged. 

#193
Cutlass Jack

Cutlass Jack
  • Members
  • 8 091 messages

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You have access to ME3 DLC sales numbers? Well I guess you countered me there.


Numbers? No. Comparative sales? Yes, thanks to the Xbox Live Marketplace. This post, made a few days back, shows all Mass Effect DLC ordered by how well it sold. I'm aware that ME1 and ME2's DLC has had years longer to accumulate sales, but let me point out that From Ashes is #2 on that list while Levi is #16 and Omega is #21, beating only two DLCs in number of sales (the Groundside Pack and the ME3 Alternate Appearance Pack, for the record). It also explains where and how I got my numbers, in case you want to check it yourself. Not only that, but someone made a similar list about a month ago (found on Page 2 of the same thread), and Omega has barely budged from the bottom of the list.


And yet (please correct me if I'm wrong here) those fan made mods you listed arent available on XBox. They are PC only. Which means we have no real way of knowing how much those fan made mods really increased DLC sales as you suggested.

Which was what I was really getting at. We dont have access to the numbers that would let us know if those mods had any real affect on anything. While I don't doubt at least someone bought the DLCs due to the mods, it doesn't mean thousands did. Or even dozens.

That the ME3 DLCs sold worse as a whole doesn't surprise me. Personally I'm less likely to buy DLCs on any game with a definitive ending on them, I like ones that expand a game past its ending. How Happy or Sad the ending is doesnt change that for me. ME2 DLCs had the promise of carrying over to the next game, which was a huge incentive for nearly everyone to get them. ME3 is over no matter how it ends. Less incentive.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 15 janvier 2013 - 04:25 .


#194
NightAntilli

NightAntilli
  • Members
  • 403 messages

Kel Riever wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.


Some people do not read.  Like this poster.

I read the title and opening post perfectly. That other people are arguing for a sensible ending or whatever, independent of it being happy or not, that's fine. But the first poster is arguing for a happy ending. Maybe you're the one that should actually learn to read. 

Modifié par NightAntilli, 15 janvier 2013 - 04:23 .


#195
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

This request is not legitimate.



Not at all.


It is as legitimate as you two sticking to some selfish idea that you have what you want so who the hell cares about the wants of others.  It is the ending in my game that is not legitimate since it does not fit the story Bioware created and allowed me to play out-dialogue and story that they created in my game.

Bioware did create this story.  And in my game they also created dialogue that I chose that directed the game in a certain direction and created certain implied possibilities.  They wrote this dialogue that I was allowed to choose.  So, in effect they created a different story for me than for you.  As I see it though they did create all games as more similar to the one I played than what you played because you'd have to ignore huge sections of what you are told in the games to come to the conclusion that the endings actually fit this story.  Or, you'd have to believe in the Normandy crash tests on a jungle planet theory, or the idea of creating galactic concentration camps to round people up in, or the triple synthesis theory including a lot more Cerberus. 

But so you ignore what the story was about, you decide ME2 failed because it didn't fit with the ending (truly backwards thinking since ME3 should have explained ME2).  You believe that a happier ending, a win ending, that bears out self-determination is somehow less satisfying than watching the skin flayed off the hero, deciding to fundamentally and arbitrarily change the nature of the galaxy for no good reason other than because some flawed and broken computer program with delusions of godhood told you you could.

You believe that slideshows that show smiley faces after such verly likely atrocities have been committed are some confirmation of the need to make a hard choice and achieve balance is somehow less cheesier than an actual truly good feeling at having tried really hard, believed the impossible could be achieved, and that reliance on one another could save the day.  In this kind of attitude, Scarface would be seen as somehow touchy feely and really cheery entertainment, family fare.

You can't have it both ways.  The poster you are replying to says the endings are happy ones-he's said this before, because as proof he sites the slide shows, but then he says there should be no happy ending.  Ok, makes sense to me.  What we would like to see is the possibility of a happier ending that is based in reality, not super silly slideshows that attempt to show you that whatever Shepard may have done, it's all good.  The galaxy is a happy place-more like they all exist in a drug induced state because there's nothing real about those slides and nothing great and good about what we now have.

Want balance?  I know that Seival thinks it's all important (except when wanting people placed in concentration camps).  So do I.  I want the opposite of what we now have.  Something a bit less demented, dark, dreary, and unsatisfying.  I want something that actually remembers the themes and the stories that came before and validates all that.  I also want something that includes the story I played and that considers the game and stories BW created previously.  I want BW to actually write a story that fits the one they made for me to play.

#196
Reth Shepherd

Reth Shepherd
  • Members
  • 1 437 messages

dreamgazer wrote...

Reth Shepherd wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

You have access to ME3 DLC sales numbers? Well I guess you countered me there.


Numbers? No. Comparative sales? Yes, thanks to the Xbox Live Marketplace. This post, made a few days back, shows all Mass Effect DLC ordered by how well it sold. I'm aware that ME1 and ME2's DLC has had years longer to accumulate sales, but let me point out that From Ashes is #2 on that list while Levi is #16 and Omega is #21, beating only TWO DLCs in number of sales (the Groundside Pack and the ME3 Alternate Appearance Pack, for the record). It also explains where and how I got my numbers, in case you want to check it yourself. Not only that, but someone made a similar list about a month ago (found on Page 2 of the same thread), and Omega has barely budged from the bottom of the list.


The thing that leads me to question the XBLA ranking charts and their veracity is that those rankings haven't really shifted since I looked at them a few months ago. Something appears to be snagged. 


Did you by chance make a copy of the listings at that point in time? If so, would you mind posting them, please? I'd love to run some comparisons! If not, oh well.

So far as the accuracy of the rankings, they aren't my numbers, so I suppose I can't really say for sure. However, Microsoft really has nothing to gain from releasing inaccurate rankings, and comparing ABCoLD's list to mine, it's apparent that there have been minor adjustments in comparative rankings in only the month between our posts; so I'm not ready to call the numbers inaccurate unless there's more solid evidence than "those rankings haven't really shifted since (...) a few months ago." We'd have an easier time of it if EA would release their sales numbers, but so far they've declined to do so.

Bear in mind also that these are comparative rankings, not straight-up sales numbers. If sales numbers hadn't budged in a few months, I'd call a rat. However, comparisons have the property that both items being assessed can both get more sales without it being visible to us. LotSB, for example, could have closed the gap between it and Rebellion, but unless it passed Rebellion, we wouldn't see that change. And finally, there HAVE been changes in ranking with the DLC. At the time of ABCoLD's posting, Levi was behind ME2's Alternate Appearance Pack 2, while it is now ahead of it. ME3's Retaliation MP expansion was 2 below Pinnacle Station, while it is now 1 above. Just because there have not been major changes does not mean that there haven't been smaller ones.

#197
Chris Priestly

Chris Priestly
  • Members
  • 7 259 messages
We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.



:devil:

#198
AnsinJung

AnsinJung
  • Members
  • 247 messages

3DandBeyond wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Seival wrote...

This request is not legitimate.



Not at all.


It is as legitimate as you two sticking to some selfish idea that you have what you want so who the hell cares about the wants of others.  It is the ending in my game that is not legitimate since it does not fit the story Bioware created and allowed me to play out-dialogue and story that they created in my game.

Bioware did create this story.  And in my game they also created dialogue that I chose that directed the game in a certain direction and created certain implied possibilities.  They wrote this dialogue that I was allowed to choose.  So, in effect they created a different story for me than for you.  As I see it though they did create all games as more similar to the one I played than what you played because you'd have to ignore huge sections of what you are told in the games to come to the conclusion that the endings actually fit this story.  Or, you'd have to believe in the Normandy crash tests on a jungle planet theory, or the idea of creating galactic concentration camps to round people up in, or the triple synthesis theory including a lot more Cerberus. 

But so you ignore what the story was about, you decide ME2 failed because it didn't fit with the ending (truly backwards thinking since ME3 should have explained ME2).  You believe that a happier ending, a win ending, that bears out self-determination is somehow less satisfying than watching the skin flayed off the hero, deciding to fundamentally and arbitrarily change the nature of the galaxy for no good reason other than because some flawed and broken computer program with delusions of godhood told you you could.

You believe that slideshows that show smiley faces after such verly likely atrocities have been committed are some confirmation of the need to make a hard choice and achieve balance is somehow less cheesier than an actual truly good feeling at having tried really hard, believed the impossible could be achieved, and that reliance on one another could save the day.  In this kind of attitude, Scarface would be seen as somehow touchy feely and really cheery entertainment, family fare.

You can't have it both ways.  The poster you are replying to says the endings are happy ones-he's said this before, because as proof he sites the slide shows, but then he says there should be no happy ending.  Ok, makes sense to me.  What we would like to see is the possibility of a happier ending that is based in reality, not super silly slideshows that attempt to show you that whatever Shepard may have done, it's all good.  The galaxy is a happy place-more like they all exist in a drug induced state because there's nothing real about those slides and nothing great and good about what we now have.

Want balance?  I know that Seival thinks it's all important (except when wanting people placed in concentration camps).  So do I.  I want the opposite of what we now have.  Something a bit less demented, dark, dreary, and unsatisfying.  I want something that actually remembers the themes and the stories that came before and validates all that.  I also want something that includes the story I played and that considers the game and stories BW created previously.  I want BW to actually write a story that fits the one they made for me to play.


Well said.  "Drug induced" and slide shows got me thinking Brave New World.  In fact, that book ended with a more satisfying "Refusal" than ME3, if for no other reason than that it fit the story told from page 1.

#199
3DandBeyond

3DandBeyond
  • Members
  • 7 579 messages

NightAntilli wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

NightAntilli wrote...

If you want happy endings, go watch Disney movies. And oh, I'd advise you to stay very far away from The Walking Dead and Spec Ops: The Line.


Some people do not read.  Like this poster.

I read the title and opening post perfectly. That other people are arguing for a sensible ending or whatever, independent of it being happy or not, that's fine. But the first poster is arguing for a happy ending. Maybe you're the one that should actually learn to read. 


I think you actually miss some of the nuance of the post.  The OP states an option at least for it.  This isn't an either this or that linear game (though it is in many ways more linear than implied).  It isn't either Disney or The Walking Dead.  It was actually supposed to be both.  And yes, it should have included both in context.


The other part you are missing is that within even this story and any Disney movie is a happier tone contained within tragic context.  It's about rebuilding after tragedy and it's about taking a hard road and fighting for your own future.  Along the way, knowing that suffering will happen.  Almost every Disney cartoon and all the movies I've ever seen featured this as a recurrent theme-triumph over tragedy by finding and relying upon true friends.  This too was the theme of ME and it is stated even at the end (Destroy) by Hackett.  That is what determined a win, what decides the future.  It's not laying down and giving in to an enemy or to fate, it is challenging yourself and leading.  Getting people to follow you into hell-that is an almost constant thing said to Shepard about his/her character; the ability to get people to want to help.

Sure Disney endings are happy ones, but they are bittersweet because there is always the memory of those that were lost-and they always show the growth of character, among the protagonist's friends and the protagonist him/herself.  ME had a similar attitude, even till the end, but then that was smashed and set aside.

Please understand the problem here is that often what happens is people tend to try and write briefly what they think, so then others criticize it when someone says, "I wanted a happier ending" or "a happy ending".  And yet, when people (like me) try to really explain this means more than just a simplistic smiley face ending, others write "TL;DR".

#200
crimzontearz

crimzontearz
  • Members
  • 16 786 messages

Chris Priestly wrote...

We have said this many times, we are done with the ending of Mass Effect. While there is still DLC to come (I cannot go into details yet) we will not be making any "ending" DLC.



:devil:



 
Right, well, there were no plans for a ps3 version of any of the games and lookie, all three are now available for ps3.

I am not saying further modifications of the endings will come for sure I am juat saying it is not impossible. Besides, adding context ≠ changing it (unless you ask Tuly)