11 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

It is common in games for difficulty to increase by making the monsters
dish out more damage and be more damage absorbant, i.e., more HP, more
dodge, more armor, more resistances, etc.

Would you prefer
another approach?   What if the monsters stayed the same strength? 
Would you prefer that and be able to adjust difficulty another way?

The Monsters stay the same in power but you can:
1)  Adjust their numbers.
2)  Adjust the price of items in the store so you can buy more items or less.
3)  Adjust the amount of XP that is awarded so you can gain levels faster or slower.

[HipMaestro]

Ideally, the foes would adjust their combat AI according to the characteristics of the target PC.  Seems a bit unfair that players can observe the combat log, glean iinformation about how effective/ineffective an attack is going and then adjust accordingly.   An AI should be able to adjust according to a PC's level, class(es), abilities and skills, at minimum. 

Anyway, I realize it is challenging developing AIs that function well under diverse situations but a more intelligent and reactive AI would make the game MUCH more difficult to master, assuming that combat lies in the critical path, and at the same time create a more unique use of all NPC default blueprints.  The pre-buff-on-perception method has been overdone to the point that it really doesn't pose much of a hurdle any longer for those who have encountered it often.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

It would have to be done carefully and thoughtfully, but you could also throw in different 'wildcard' enemies as the difficulty increases, especially tailored to defeat known exploits and min/max builds. The idea isn't just to make the powerbuilders work a little bit harder by clicking through more mooks, but to give them different sorts of challenges that they don't quite know how to prepare for.

A custom encounter script could do this well, leaving out the orc shamans at low difficulty and throwing in specialized monsters at high difficulty.

[Clyordes]

Nice question Mr Hip.

Personally - I like variety - so variations to encounters that change things like creatures having higher HP, or AC, special powers that make them more powerful - special abilities / spell like powers & such - greater numbers is great for a mass melee (and great for wearing down a party quickly).

As Lugaid says - making it difficult (or more interesting) for players who may be notice specific 'exploits' is what I like to do to - a good variety of challenges is I think a good way to build adventures - personally I get really bored by adventures (or whole games) where you get the same sort of encounter again & again.

Cly.

[kamal_]

Personal Impossibility Adjustment by kevL et al.
http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=349

[kevL]

yes, but it's just the first suggestion by NTB. Pump up the stats ...

I find it works really well, being an amalgam of ideas & efforts by Reeron & 3miLy raNgeR -- polished & tuned up to make myself happy (and the OCs playable ..).

All the ideas in this thread can/should be mixed & matched: tougher mobs, more mobs, less Xp, less Gp, as well as more 'devious' programming that identifies PC class & level etc. and spawns in specific monsters/types, even with custom-tailored weaponry, armor and spells -- sorta like some loot scripts

what I'm finding with the Pia is that, while it doesn't enhance tactics of opponents, it forces me to enhance mine .....


ps. The AI function was taken to a new level by TonyK -- altering it is a big worry. However, specialty functions can be called by it, that are conceivably tailored to aggravate PC's

[Luminus]

I'm against raising stats as a challenge, I find it extremely lazy from a PW or module.

I once played a module in NwN1 where you got levels likes crazy after a point, +10 equipment, you had 40 level companions and was fighting 5000 HP Trolls. That's a huge turn-off for me.

You want to increase the challenge of a module?
-Limit resting.
-Don't give xp and magic items like candy.
-Increase the number of enemies.
-Implement Tony K's AI.
-Suggest that people play on Hardcore or Very Difficult mode.
-Use varied enemies. Some undead, some fire immune, some golems, some rogues, mages, warriors, animals, SR enemies.
-Use traps than can be deadly or sound the alarm for more enemies.
-Use PnP adjustments on monsters. 5000HP Trolls are idiotic. For example, instead of the default Deinonychus, use a Megaraptor. Instead of a super megaraptor, change it's size, stats and color to a T-Rex and call it that.

To be honest, I think the Very Difficult mode is the default Hardcore. Why? Because you get double the average HP (max) which means enemies should be dealing double the average damage too to compensate.

Baldur's Gate did it right. Limited resources and relatively limited resting.

If you start giving resistances and tons of HP and AC on targets, suddenly mages become crap, immunities make various spells useless or rogues or weapon masters etc etc.

Also, if it's set in the Forgotten Realms, then lore-wise, monty haul merchants or loot doesn't exist, even on Epic levels and DnD is mostly balanced for pre-epic at least.

Modifié par Luminus, 15 janvier 2013 - 11:23 .

[HipMaestro]

My main issue in screwing with default blueprints is that they each define a D&D-based identity.  If you are adventuring and start to find crit-immune races that were never designed to be that way, well... yes, it is different and it could be more difficult, it's just not D&D.  You need at least a base of the standard D&D bestiary and stick with it.  I really don't need to encounter a vampiric wolf that shoots beholder rays from its eyes to increase the difficulty.  It defies the D&D gaming atmosphere.  It's fine to create new creatures with custom attributes but they should be kept separate from the default ones and spoon-fed to some degree in order to have some relationship to the environment.

In absence of an improved AI, I agree about custom designing encounters being an effective measure.  One way is to create a few layers of boss monsters with attributes and HD scaled to the PC (or party) that triggered the encounter.  The only guideline I would suggest is to maintain some race/class consistency for thematic reasons.  They need to be based unmistakably on D&D creatures/races.  Naturally, I am basing this on low- to mid-magic apps.  High-magic environments have a much tougher task to increase difficulty without destroying the default balance since they intrinsically provide a means to neutralize the strengths and characteristics of most creatures with item enhancements. 

One other point.

Don't confuse increased difficulty with increased tedium.  Raising stats won't make combat more difficult.  The same combat methodology will still apply.  It just takes longer.  Avoid classifying difficulty by how many heal potions need to used to complete an encounter.  It's all about forcing a change in tactics to achieve a similar goal.

[kevL]

re. increased stats == increased tedium

That's not what I and others have found. There comes a point where swigging Heal potions won't suffice; you have to *do* something. Like crowd control, mind affecting spells, possibly retreat.

Once the mobs get tough enough i've found myself in many a battle that came down to: this spell needs to stick! Or, I need to make this concentration roll,

[kamal_]

Tucker's kobolds.

Only problem is that requires a large amount of encounter scripting and a specific map, or a live DM.

[nicethugbert]

Why did I waste time with those cabbage heads in the DA forums trying to discuss this?  "I jus wanna worship biowr nom nom nom ........",  "I'm the game designer around here, apostate!  Game Design dictates ....."

Can we have NWN3 now?

I agree with a lot of this if not all of this.

I was playing Dragon Age Awakenings in order to make an import file for DA3, should DA3 be worth my time.  Plus I have some DA2 DLC I have not played yet..  So, I set the difficulty to easy, which is something I have done maybe 5 times in my life.  The reason for it was that I had already played it so I wanted to get through it.  But, I also wanted to turn friendly fire off so I could try other spells without obliterating my party or using the old peek-a-boo-my-perception-range-is-better-than-you-nyah-nyah-nyah tactic, casting my nukes from afar.  I just wanted to enjoy new visuals and stuff.

But it was a race to cast a spell before my party tore the enemy to pieces in the blink of an eye.

So, it would have been in my interest to have had other options.  If I had just a simple Friendly Fire toggle, I could have made the enemy's more durable so I would have been able to see the spells do something without playing peek-a-boo or cursing the pathfinding and AI.

I wasn't looking for a challenge per se.  I just wanted to see stuff.  Sure, I could have had fewer companions in the party or gone naked or .....  But, isn't the point of an RPG, at least informally or historically, to have companions and items, even lots and lots of them, and to play how you want, to have options?

People complain about the combat in games all the time.  Some people don't want a whole lot of mooks, just bosses.  Because, the mooks are boring.  Some people just want to get to the story and they find the combat is largely pointless.  So, regardless of how many enemies they face, they may want them to be pushovers, or not.

I played Of Orcs and Men on easy mode because the game is hardly documented so I wanted to avoid a constant stream of WTF moments and just enjoy the story.  If I had had the documentation I needed to learn to play the game, I would have turned up the difficulty.

But, everybody has their own point of view on what makes a game fun and that point of view changes through out the game's first play through even.

I JUST HAD AN IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Targeting markers.  Give the rogue a targeting marker.  Then he can perform his roguely duties of scouting ahead and gathering info by sneaking up and placing the targeting marker.  Then the mage can drop the nuke on the enemy via the targeting marker.  It could be made out of pigeons!  This way, enemies can have wider perception ranges so we don't play peek-a-boo.  Rogues get to fullfil their role and take up a place in the party.  And, mages fulfil their role to as nukers/controlers and the crafters of the target markers.  OK, back on track.

As I was saying, differing POVs on difficulties.  And, I agree, just beefing up the enemies is no good all ther time for various reasons, it is in a Strategy game and RPGs are typically part strategy game.  But, RPGs are also story games and a lot of us are finding the combat to be tedious after a point.  I find that the mechanisms in RPGs can hinder the story.  They break immersion and take up time.  It would be nice ot be able to mamange that, especially in yout typical RPG:  BG series, DA, series, NWNW series, etc.

I would actually like to see for once a game that is a purely story driven fantasy divorced from D&D mechanics, no levels, attributes, classes, etc., where every action is driven by story.  So, the quality of the action depends on the quality of the story.  A game like this done well would solve the whole fed ex issue as well as resource aquisition/manangement, etc.  You would not have generic +stat gear because there is no story behind that.  Nothing would be generic.

You determine your goals and you figure out how to get it done.  You figure out everything from who your enemies are, to where they are, what their weeknesses are, the powers and items and allies you will need to aquire to defeat them in the manner you plan to defeat them.

So, you would ally with stealth users, magic users, zoo keeprs, warriors, etc. for whatever reason you decide.  And, you could be one yourself for whaterver reason you decide.

A good checkpoint system will be needed because this much exploration requires a lot of reloading especiaaly if you crank up the difficulty.

But, what constitues difficulty is not simple.  It's a matter of varying opinion.  And, I agree,the typical difficulty mechanism leads to tedium.

[nicethugbert]

OMFG ANOTHER IDEA:

You decide that you need intel. But, your main character is not suited to the task. You assemble a team to gather the intel. You the switch to playing that team of characters while your main character stays behind. Now, those characters get to engage in dialog and have their goals and personalities to advance.