587 réponses à ce sujet

[Kel Riever]

OP, I concur, but here is what I'd say:

The biggest decline in game play from a levelling standpoint for ME was in ME2. And ME3 corrected that. The skills are streamlined, but complex enough. I personally love the ME1 levelling, but it is more hardcore rpg and I wasn't surprised it didn't last.

Now on the story front, you are absolutely right in ME. IT was a decline from ME1 to 3. But it mostly has to do with starbrat showing up and the totally ****** poor ending(s) that is less rpg and more emo rage against some internal, mental machine. Oh, and it makes no sense at all. Let's just leave the fact that it was supposed to offer choices that matter (the most important thing) off the table for now.

I'm replaying DA:O right now, and it is really better than ME2 and certainly 3. I'd even say better than 1, but it is a harder comparisson because ME1 was so groundbreaking, is a different genre, and came first. I played Baldur's Gate 2 which was brilliant for the time.

All in all not everything declined. Just some of the most important things. And me ever spending money on them until they actually fix the ME3 ending (which we know will be never)

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You know what's bad for gaming? Gamers.

:lol: that is sooo true!

[spirosz]

I love the term, RPG.

[416Leafer]

I've only played Dragon Age I (in that series). But compared to NWN, there's much less customization. You think there'd be MORE as time goes on, not less?

That was a turnoff for me.

[clennon8]

Oh, Brovikk, you and your persistent "The customer is always wrong" credo. You're such a lovable curmudgeon.

[Kel Riever]

clennon8 wrote...

Oh, Brovikk, you and your persistent "The customer is always wrong" credo. You're such a lovable curmudgeon.

Shhh, the cut off the nose despite his face statements keep me coming here for the lulz!

[ME859]

I personally enjoyed ME3's combat the most as in spite of the absurd amount of barrel roles was still the most enjoyable. People go back and glorify ME1's combat system despite the fact that it was terribly clunky and made way for way to many wtf deaths.

It was nothing like Dragon Age Orgins on PC which in spite of its learning curve was not only playable but fun as well. ME1 was more along the lines of grinding it out to get to the next part of the story.

Where ME3 messed up was reduced dialog options, something ME2 kept in tact.  If ME1 had no story it would have been worthy of an angry video game nerd episode based on its gameplay.

Modifié par ME859, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:07 .

[dreamgazer]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

To be quite honest, I don't care what's 'good for gaming' or not. I enjoy the game. 

Many people complained about the long intro to Assassin's Creed 3's long intro. Too long and 'boring' they said. How dare the developers try and flesh out the characters of their game!

Many people complained about the many cutscenes of Max Payne 3. Well, they add to an already amazing story, so what's the big deal? Short attention spans?!

You know what's bad for gaming? Gamers.

So, if I were to say that they could do the same things in AC3's intro in a more concise, effective way, that would be a bad thing because gamers' insight is bad?  All gamers aren't of the "short attention span" and "too long, too boring" breed; some are legitimately concerned with pacing. 

[WindfishDude]

*Just replying to the OP -I haven't read the thread.

Yeah, I've been a die-hard Bioware fan ever since Baldur's Gate. To this day, it is still one of the most perfect video-game RPGs ever made.
ME2 was not really an RPG imo (and I skipped DA2 completely) but I still felt like the narrative was diverse and interesting enough (in ME2) that I felt it to be worthy of the Bioware name. The story and the decisions were great and the game took it's time to draw me in.

I don't recognize Mass Effect 3 as an RPG, and it doesn't feel worthy of the Bioware brand name.
ME2 was straddling the fence RPG-wise, but ME3 has completely lost it. It's a fun action game, sure, but the narrative and the player choice is just awful.

ME3 is NOT an RPG. Granted, the definition of RPG is pretty broad, but in my world, it most certainly is not.
ME3 is also (unfortunately) a really badly told story, so it has that working against it too.
I'll never understand why people say the game is great up until the ending. ME3 lost me during the freaking intro. It looks and sounds nice but it's just awful, awful story telling.

I've said this alot, but I think I'm done with Bioware. Their priorities has changed and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just not for me -and being a fan since the beginning, it's pretty tough to say goodbye like this.

Oh, well, at least the trigger happy kids are happy with the 'new and improved' Bioware.
Cheers.

Modifié par WindfishDude, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:08 .

[Obitim]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Obitim wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...
I think Bioware games are getting better and better.

Fair enough, how?

Better gamepla. Better visuals and audio. More interesting lore instead of the usual trolls and wizards. Streamlined (yes, streamlined, not "dumbed down") RPG elements, so that you spent more time actually using your skills rather than assigning numbers. I could go on, but I don't see any areas where Bioware games have gotten worse since ME1. 

Yo usay interesting lore other than trolls and wizards but what about KOTOR?  and there have been plenty of other games set outside of fantasy in the past, look at the Buck Rodgers games (oldies but goldies!)

Streamlined is being used a lot but in my opinion (others, like you, disagree) I feel that this streamlining is taking away from the experience and the enjoyment of discovery in the game.  As you say, there are RPG elements, changing the game.  

The skills that are used are shooter skills, whereas I;ve always thought that the RPG is based on the skills that your character has or has developed through the course of the game, hence in ME 1 a soldier could decide to focus on different firearms or armour, or an infiltrator could be more technical or more of an assassin, ME2 and ME 3 don't give you those options.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

There's nothing wrong with AC3's pacing.

[dreamgazer]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

There's nothing wrong with AC3's pacing.

Once you get past the intro, I mostly agree. 

[spirosz]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

There's nothing wrong with AC3's pacing.

But you're being subjective, as are the people who think Bioware is in decline of their "RPG" status.  

[Someone With Mass]

spirosz wrote...

I love the term, RPG.

Especially when it's mistaken for the other kind of RPG.

[clarkusdarkus]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You know what's bad for gaming? Gamers.

:lol: that is sooo true!

I thought he meant gaymers..... As in the cider drink...

wasn't the EC down to such filth aswell.......

[EagleScoutDJB]

The real problem is the idea that games have to be made to appeal to a larger audience. On paper it's a great idea, why wouldn't you want to take a great game like Mass Effect and make it for a larger audience and make more money. In practice it's not such a great idea, it's very hard to take something that works and change it so that it appeals to more people without alienating some or all of the people that call themselves your fans and are your most die hard customers. Lets use Dead Space as an example, I'm sick of picking on Mass Effect, if the first game was popular enough to get a sequel and the second game was popular enough to make a third game then why does Dead Space 3 need to be changed to make it appeal to a larger audience? I can understand if a game didn't do well, but they don't want to give up on the IP, some changes need to be made but changing something that works and sells well seems stupid to me.

[Kel Riever]

Someone With Mass wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I love the term, RPG.

Especially when it's mistaken for the other kind of RPG.

Oh come on, we have to have very loose terms when talking anything on a computer.  Once upon a time, I used to say that nobody makes a true RPG on the computer, but BioWare was at least sworn to using video games to make the best attempt at it.  Obviously, that is no longer the case.

[spirosz]

If anything, Bioware wanted to turn ME into a very cinematic experience, like a movie or that "Uncharted" experience, there is nothing wrong with that. Plus, I don't believe the ME series was ever truly an RPG at heart, it just mixed in elements that felt appropriate to what Bioware wanted to create.

Modifié par spirosz, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Kel Riever wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I love the term, RPG.

Especially when it's mistaken for the other kind of RPG.

Oh come on, we have to have very loose terms when talking anything on a computer.  Once upon a time, I used to say that nobody makes a true RPG on the computer, but BioWare was at least sworn to using video games to make the best attempt at it.  Obviously, that is no longer the case.

I'll say this: the discussion over the past few months about gaming RPGs has made me want to dust off my old table-top gear. 

[Someone With Mass]

spirosz wrote...

If anything, Bioware wanted to turn ME into a very cinematic experience, like a movie or that "Uncharted" experience, there is nothing with that. Plus, I don't believe the ME series was ever truly an RPG at heart, it just mixed in elements that felt appropriate to what Bioware wanted to create.

Indeed.

The RPG elements in ME1 were so basic that even a game like Pokemon on the Game Boy could trump it.

If anything, I think it got the closest with ME3, where the player's choice in terms of weapons, powers and such allowed for different playstyles, while in ME1, everything just went up with the numbers instead of branching out until you got the best stuff in the game. Which made the loot system rather redundant on a NG+ playthrough and pretty much only served as a medi/omni-gel dispenser.

[Iakus]

spirosz wrote...

If anything, Bioware wanted to turn ME into a very cinematic experience, like a movie or that "Uncharted" experience, there is nothing with that. Plus, I don't believe the ME series was ever truly an RPG at heart, it just mixed in elements that felt appropriate to what Bioware wanted to create.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that as a game.  But when it starts to hurt a player's ability to roleplay, or having your choices matter, you have to ask if we're giving up too much for this experience.

It's one thing to have a cinematic experience as Nathan Drake, where we have no say in what happens.  It's another to be Commander Shepard, who's journey we're supposed to guide.

[spirosz]

iakus wrote...

spirosz wrote...

If anything, Bioware wanted to turn ME into a very cinematic experience, like a movie or that "Uncharted" experience, there is nothing with that. Plus, I don't believe the ME series was ever truly an RPG at heart, it just mixed in elements that felt appropriate to what Bioware wanted to create.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that as a game.  But when it starts to hurt a player's ability to roleplay, or having your choices matter, you have to ask if we're giving up too much for this experience.

It's one thing to have a cinematic experience as Nathan Drake, where we have no say in what happens.  It's another to be Commander Shepard, who's journey we're supposed to guide.

But tha'ts the thing, it was never truly "a role playing" experience in the typical sense.  There were always going to be limitations and defined aspects of your character which you can't control or RP and it doesn't help that certain actions you took as a player, were muted by what Bioware had in mind, you know what I mean? 

Don't get me wrong, I had many Shepard's throughout the series, that I headcannoned a lot of different aspects that "define" them, but I realized going into ME2, Shepard was always going to be "Bioware's hero", not ours. There are too many limiations still in gaming, especially with the trilogy ambition in mind.  

Modifié par spirosz, 14 janvier 2013 - 04:42 .

[loungeshep]

You know shooter fans can like rpgs, in fact there are many that do. But hey I don't wanna break your small, generalized world view.

[dreamgazer]

loungeshep wrote...

You know shooter fans can like rpgs, in fact there are many that do. But hey I don't wanna break your small, generalized world view.

Next you'll be telling me that there are RPG fans who like shooters.

Blasphemy. 

[Mcfly616]

Notice all the games you asked if we remembered were all before EA bought Bioware. Secondly, ME3 was a huge step up in the customization department compared to ME2.

Say what you want about ME3, but ME2 is easily the worst when it comes to customization and RPG elements.