78 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Huh... I wonder why it's never shown up for me. Does she happen to say anything to that option?

That the Architect assured her she would be "fine". That is the word used.

[TEWR]

Strange then how Armaas, who has had firsthand dealings with the Darkspawn as well, isn't tainted in the least.

[MisterJB]

Armaas is needed to facilitate trade with the surface. He can't do that Tainted.

[Knight of Dane]

The Calling is the original source, it was released half a year before Awakening.
Guess a bald dwarf woman wouldn't sire much sympathy? Better giver her braids.

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

Armaas is needed to facilitate trade with the surface. He can't do that Tainted.

So then if Armaas was able to deal with the Darkspawn firsthand, whilst remaining untainted through the Architect's protection, then wouldn't the Architect want to use that protection on the people of Thedas so that they remain untainted as well -- yet can interact with the Darkspawn when need be?

Not that I think the Architect would want people to live next to the Darkspawn in the sense of being neighbors. What he seeks, I think, is coexistence and not cohabitation

[MisterJB]

Protecting the entirety of Thedas from the Taint is likely too much for anyone.

[legbamel]

It wouldn't do any good, even if he could. Darkspawn wandering freely will result in tainting the land. That means nowhere to grow food, eventually, and tainted livestock/wild animals.

Of course, I don't think one person should get to make that choice for a whole planet full of people in the first place. In ME3 you're forced to make a choice, at least as it was released, whether it's synthesis or not.

[TEWR]

legbamel wrote...

Darkspawn wandering freely will result in tainting the land. That means nowhere to grow food, eventually, and tainted livestock/wild animals.

I'm not so sure. For one thing, the Silverite Mines don't have any tainted depiction when the Architect's clearly set up shop there for... months with his Darkspawn. Whereas places like the Deep Roads have... well... blubber all over the walls, rocks coated with slime, and just all around a look of being tainted.

Which, to me, indicates that his protection extends to the land.

Second, Dalish healing magic -- when amplified -- is capable of cleansing inanimate objects of the taint permanently.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 janvier 2013 - 09:51 .

[Addai]

Since the Architect himself talks about many people dying under his plan, he obviously doesn't anticipate protecting everyone from the taint's effects.

[LobselVith8]

secretsandlies wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Darkspawn are only.. Spawned... by Broodmothers. 

yeah this is why my Warden had killed Architect

The choice isn't easy, but my Warden killed the Architect, too. There was a thread over a year ago where some hypothesized the possibility of sentient darkspawn raiding the surface to get people (to turn into Broodmothers). Blights are so dangerous because the darkspawn are intelligent (via the Archdemon). There are a lot of bad things that could happen because of the Architect.

Nathaniel's dialogue in Act III made me think that Velanna found her sister, and the sentient darkspawn who she seemed to be governing.

secretsandlies wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

how could the Goulified Warden Commander still be alive in the Legacy DLC?

because taint kills slowly? and it takes about 30 years before effect of the Taint set in.

It doesn't seem to kill, but rather turn you into a ghoul. That seems to be why Wardens go to their Calling, to die before they turn into ghouls. Avernus lived for centuries by slowing down his taint.

[Daerog]

Gah, this whole thread reminds me of how awesome of a character the Architect was in The Calling and how disappointed I was with how he was treated in Awakening. Best villian in DA.

I was kind of sad when my Warden killed him without hesitation or even considering his proposal.

[Daerog]

LobselVith8 wrote...

secretsandlies wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

how could the Goulified Warden Commander still be alive in the Legacy DLC?

because taint kills slowly? and it takes about 30 years before effect of the Taint set in.

It doesn't seem to kill, but rather turn you into a ghoul. That seems to be why Wardens go to their Calling, to die before they turn into ghouls. Avernus lived for centuries by slowing down his taint.

Spoilers from The Calling:

Ya, but the Wardens who went with the Architect didn't really become what is considered a normal ghoul. They became a kind of hybrid. It kind of hinted that they wouldn't die from the taint once it has completely becomes blended with them and they are essentially advanced darkspawn... like Uruk'hai. Avernus may have slowed it down, but the Architect (and those amulets from the Circle) actually sped up the process of the taint. With that nice dagger that Duncan found countering the taint... seriously, the Wardens should just get that First Enchanters notes and try to mass produce those daggers...

I haven't read it in a long time, this is just what I think happened if my memory is correct.

[Androme]

 Since when does the Architecht want all the peoples of Thedas to become Darkspawn hybrids? He just needs some Grey Warden blood, which is not the same as a ''Darkspawn hybrid''.

[Androme]

Androme wrote...

 Since when does the Architecht want all the peoples of Thedas to become Darkspawn hybrids? He just needs some Grey Warden blood, which is not the same as a ''Darkspawn hybrid''.

Edit:
Oh, just read spoilers from Dragon Age: The Calling. I get it now

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
True, Darkspawn and the Darkspawn hybrids wouldn't be able to have children, but for the people that survive the Joining and Darkspawn in general would never die of old age, hunger, ect.

Grey Wardens become ghouls and die, they don't become darkspawn.

secretsandlies wrote...
- i would rather fight normal darkspawn rather than smart one.

The whole reason the blight is dangerous is that the archdemon leads them. If they can think for themselves, that makes them far, far more dangerous.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Which he's probably abandoned now that he's found a better alternative.

Making an invincible army that can bring about an eternal blight we have no hope of ever defeating? Yes, much better plan.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Curiously, Seranni has shown no signs of bearing the Taint.

Her in-game model is that of a tainted person. This is a bad model of it, sadly:

And Armaas tells us that the Architect promised him protection

The Architect could have lied.

All Wardens are capable of sensing the Taint in people, so if either of the two were tainted our Warden could go "Wait..."

There's no reason to believe this. There was no such mechanism in-game, even if it is part of the lore. Alistair never detected darkspawn. None of your party ever does in DA:A.

Which backfired horribly.

Which should lead to the natural inference that making them all smart would go very well.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
We've never seen a Ghoul in the sense of say... Hespith breeding normally. Which is what I meant.

All females ghouls become broodmothers.

[Costin_Razvan]

I haven't played ME3 and don't really care about it, but consider both synthesis and the Architect's plan to be abhorrent. You don't get to rape the universe with green goo, fundamentally changing every living being, and you don't get to decide for humanity (and elven- and dwarf-kind) that they're going to be ghouls now. Even for the greater good.

I completely agree, which is why if the Architect had been like in the Calling I would not have hesitated to kill him, but he really wasn't.

[AtreiyaN7]

My opinion is that Synthesis does nothing more than to change the nature of the building blocks of life at the most basic level.

For example, let's say that you replace a carbon atom (which is fundamental to organic life) with a silicon atom that has the same structure in terms of the outermost valence shell (where you would have four "open" spaces just like carbon).

The silicon could replace the carbon, and you might hypothetically retain a DNA structure analogous to your previously fully organic one (with some help from sci-fi voodoo). You keep the uniqueness of your DNA and individual genes - they're just encoded in a slightly different form. Aside from a slight change in biochemistry, business would largely go about as normal for everyone.

Synthetics who don't have their own specific genetic code in the first place might, after Synthesis, have their unique characteristics rendered into a DNA-like code of their own. The point of Synthesis is, in my opinion, that under our respective skins, what really matters is that we're all people. Organics aren't better because they're organics, we're all equals, etc. if you want a detailed explanation, read my blog.

In any case, I got tired of the idiotic "hurr-durr, you're brainwashed borgs/monsters" and general hypocrisy in the ME3 forums, so I haven't given a flying fig about the issue in a while. As for the darkspawn situation, I don't think it's even remotely equivalent.

Why? Because we're not talking about species on an equal footing. All major parties involved in Synthesis are thinking, sentient beings (not counting cannon fodder like husks, etc. whose status after synthesis is kind of an unknown).

Aside from the Architect and very few darkspawn, they don't seem to have much in the way of native intelligence or creativity or compassion (versus EDI and the geth for example). They're enslaved by the "song," and the Architect is trying to uplift them in his own way.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:25 .

[TEWR]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
We've never seen a Ghoul in the sense of say... Hespith breeding normally. Which is what I meant.

All females ghouls become broodmothers.

Which doesn't have much to do with my point. A broodmother doesn't breed normally. They breed abnormally, because they're giving birth to Darkspawn as a part of their.... changed form. They're not giving birth to Humans/Elves/Dwarves, which is what I'd call "normal breeding".

[TEWR]

Alistair never detected darkspawn. None of your party ever does in DA:A

"Warden senses tingling!"

Duncan says he can sense the Taint in Mahariel, as well. Alistair talks about being able to sense the Taint multiple times. Morrigan says she was given something by Flemeth to mask the whole Warden-Darkspawn sensing thing since it goes both ways.

Which should lead to the natural inference that making them all smart would go very well.

Not so. His idea at the time he found Urthemiel was flawed by its very nature. He thought tainting Urthemiel would break the Call at the source. That's a no-no, because we know Archdemons are... tainted Old Gods. So it was something that can easily be seen as something that would've failed -- which he did not know. 

His idea for giving the Darkspawn freedom to be sapient however, is not flawed from the start. It gives them the opportunity to make decisions for themselves, where they can coexist alongside Thedas' society. That does not mean they would cohabit the same place, however. And we see how the Messenger will do good things. The fact that he'll save the city of Amaranthine alongside the Warden is proof enough, but then he goes beyond the call of duty by helping travelers.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:47 .

[Mikoto8472]

Personally, having played both DAO:A and the three ME games I'm equally repulsed by the synthesis ideas in both. (I chose 'destroy' simply because it was the lesser of three evils.)

As for the Architect, I really don't know what to make of him and his intentions. Ending the Blights is a nice idea. A worthy goal but I can't be sure that sentient darkspawn are any better. If they were freed we don't know that they wouldn't decide to invade the surface. Or would they live in the Deep Roads and form a civilisation there?

But given I have six Wardens-one from every Origin I play out my indecision by having three of them support him, three of them kill him.

[Vortex13]

The basic premise between these two points is, I think, a misguided attempt at solving conflict. Both of these 'solutions' are absolute in their implementation, and the very thought that ONLY by making everything the same can conflict be solved is narrowminded and ignores alternatives IMO.

Some have said that the People of Thedas vs. the Darkspawn is not the same as Synthesis, and while the details are widely divergent, the fundamental driving force behind the two is one and the same.

But, for the sake of simplicity, lets say that instead of the Architect's plan you had a senario where everyone in Thedas became a Mage. Would that solve conflict?

[EChatty]

No, it wouldn't. There is never any civilization without conflict since conflict takes different forms. Even if everyone were the same there would still be conflict.

Which is why I'm so vehemently against imprisoning mages because of what they 'might' do. Why not imprison mundanes because they 'might' gang up on a mage child and murder it before the Templars can be sent for? It's been known to happen, you know.