225 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

JasonShepard wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You never gave any reasons. 

Other than because you can put people in ghettos, but you can't be serious when you say stupid stuff like that. 

You've never seen Catalyst giving any reasons... Pitiful... No offense.

I've yet to see you give an actual reason as to why choosing Control and implementing Synthesis as the Shepalyst, is better than just choosing Synthesis.

I don't accept being able to put people who don't want to be Synthesized in ghettos because they don't accept the grand galactic dictator's point of view to be anywhere near an acceptible reason.

It *is* a more cautious method - investigating Synthesis before using it. However, I would like to raise questions on how Seival intends to employ Synthesis. Force on the population? Or offer it as an option? "Upgrade yourself!", or something like that.

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

[Red Panda]

AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I can't tell if Seival is trolling anymore

. I think (s)he actually believes this

Which is scary and sad at the same time

Honestly, I feel that Seival is one of the most sane and logical people on the forums.

Still, my point still remains, conflict will happen, but how does one combat it? That is the question.

[The Night Mammoth]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Honestly, I feel that Seival is one of the most sane and logical people on the forums.

That's a unique brand of sanity and logic.

Still, my point still remains, conflict will happen, but how does one combat it? That is the question.

Don't. Attempts to supposedly stop conflict resulted in the harvest cycle. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 janvier 2013 - 10:36 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

Do people get to leave this cluster after Synthesis is applied to the galaxy? 

[draconian139]

Seival wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You never gave any reasons. 

Other than because you can put people in ghettos, but you can't be serious when you say stupid stuff like that. 

You've never seen Catalyst giving any reasons... Pitiful... No offense.

I've yet to see you give an actual reason as to why choosing Control and implementing Synthesis as the Shepalyst, is better than just choosing Synthesis.

I don't accept being able to put people who don't want to be Synthesized in ghettos because they don't accept the grand galactic dictator's point of view to be anywhere near an acceptible reason.

It *is* a more cautious method - investigating Synthesis before using it. However, I would like to raise questions on how Seival intends to employ Synthesis. Force on the population? Or offer it as an option? "Upgrade yourself!", or something like that.

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

Would this not create unnecessary backlash from others that might accept the sort of synthesis you're proposing.  I'm sure that those who would refuse the change for themselves would have loved ones that would object to them being quarantined.

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

Do people get to leave this cluster after Synthesis is applied to the galaxy? 

After Synthesis will be applied - Relay will be re-activated. People inside the cluster will be free to live as before Sythesis, and go to Synthesized galaxy for trade and exploration. Eventually most refusers will understand that refusing Synthesis was a mistake, and ask to uplift them. This will require some time, but eventually Synthesis will prevail in the entire galaxy.

Modifié par Seival, 14 janvier 2013 - 10:45 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

Do people get to leave this cluster after Synthesis is applied to the galaxy? 

After Sythesis will be applied Relay will be re-activated. People inside the cluster will be free to live as before Sythesis, and go to Synthesized galaxy for trade and exploration. Eventually most refusers will understand that refusing Synthesis was a mistake, and ask to uplift them. This will require some time, but eventually Synthesis will prevail in the entire galaxy.

Well that's definitely changed from the previous story, now there are only minor undertones of intolerance for those who don't conform, instead of almost a repeat of Germany's pre-war persecution of minorities.

[Wayning_Star]

I would say no to that, but.. it's not known how long Shep could hold out as a Reapershep,eventhough, the reaper parts are replaced in control, so it "could" be considered a non starter. I couldn't imprison Shep in one of those carcass, so I didn't pick that one, and I don't think it works toward expanding the reapership horizons much either, as their cargo remains within, trapped... like Shepard, only different.

[Dr_Extrem]

JasonShepard wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You never gave any reasons. 

Other than because you can put people in ghettos, but you can't be serious when you say stupid stuff like that. 

You've never seen Catalyst giving any reasons... Pitiful... No offense.

I've yet to see you give an actual reason as to why choosing Control and implementing Synthesis as the Shepalyst, is better than just choosing Synthesis.

I don't accept being able to put people who don't want to be Synthesized in ghettos because they don't accept the grand galactic dictator's point of view to be anywhere near an acceptible reason.

It *is* a more cautious method - investigating Synthesis before using it. However, I would like to raise questions on how Seival intends to employ Synthesis. Force on the population? Or offer it as an option? "Upgrade yourself!", or something like that.

in short, everybody who does not submit to seivals synthesis, is forced into exile.

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

Do people get to leave this cluster after Synthesis is applied to the galaxy? 

After Sythesis will be applied Relay will be re-activated. People inside the cluster will be free to live as before Sythesis, and go to Synthesized galaxy for trade and exploration. Eventually most refusers will understand that refusing Synthesis was a mistake, and ask to uplift them. This will require some time, but eventually Synthesis will prevail in the entire galaxy.

Well that's definitely changed from the previous story, now there are only minor undertones of intolerance for those who don't conform, instead of almost a repeat of Germany's pre-war persecution of minorities.

I just repeated what I've said before. That's my vision of inevitable Synthesis in case of choosing Control. And I see no intolerance in it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I don't think so, because the cycles were not just a general plan to keep control or maintain order in the galaxy. They were a specific plan to allow each organic species to have their "day in the sun," then harvest them before they could create enough synthetics to get themselves wiped out in conflict, thus allowing another group of species to take their place. Unless Shepard is truly convinced by the Catalyst's logic, then whatever thoughts, memories, and values are "uploaded" to create the new AI wouldn't be pursuing the same goals.

The Renegade Shepard AI in the Control ending sounds concerned about general chaos and threats to "the many," not about synthetics or about species becoming too advanced for their own good. I would certainly be worried that a Renegade AI might commit some sort of atrocity, but I don't think it's any more likely to start the cycles again than any other potentially ruthless solution.

Paragon Shepard AI isn't too much of a risk, IMO. I interpret the Catalyst as suffering from a design flaw by the Leviathans, who clearly had a very "Renegade" attitude towards the rest of the galaxy and don't seem to have programmed the Catalyst to understand morals or ethics very well - they just gave it a job to do and set it loose. So a Paragon AI would be a clear improvement in terms of self-imposed limits on what it will and will not do to achieve its goals.

[Hadeedak]

You get what you want to see.

As for me, I believe my ControlShep would be staying out of it. She'd be carrying on the mandate of preservation, but through data recording and buying genetic samples through intermediaries (probably rachni or geth, since I imagine she'd suddenly have an easier time relating to any sort of hivemind than a singular perspective). Her objectives would simply be learning and archiving all she can.

But hey. Maybe your controlShep restarts the cycle or becomes a galatic dictator. Maybe your Synthesis is a horrible husk abomination, and maybe it's a perfect utopia. And maybe in Destroy, your Shepard rode off into the sunset making out with the LI of choice. And maybe they died in the rubble, taking out most of the galaxy's technology with them.

The best thing about the endings is that they're pretty much whatever you want to see. Of course, that's also why we all go crazy over them.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

I just repeated what I've said before.

Before, those who didn't accept Synthesis were forcibly isolated from the rest of the galaxy in a single cluster by having their Mass Relay cut off. 

Opening it up again so non-synthesized people can rejoin society is completely new. 

That's my vision of inevitable Synthesis in case of choosing Control. And I see no intolerance in it.

Of course you wouldn't. 

[MegaSovereign]

Seival, don't try to sugarcoat it. You'd indoctrinate everyone if you the chance.

[TK514]

Of course there is another, larger problem than continued Cycles looming down the years.

The Reapers reached a point, technologically, where they can do what they do efficiently, and stopped advancing. They stunt the innovation and tech growth of newly evolved species, by leaving their junk around relatively easy to find, so they can keep going with their galactic serial killing.

Other galaxies won't have had those Reaper enforced resets. Some of them will have been advancing unhindered for hundreds of thousands, millions, or billions of years. Eventually they will expand outside their originating galaxy and come to ours. The Cycle ensures that whatever races have evolved at that time will have no hope of defending themselves against the inevitable extra-galactic invasion. In fact the cycle it happens in may not even be capable of recognizing it for what it is, much less oppose it.

[ruggly]

Seival wrote...
It will be a long process of offering an option and convincing people this is the right choice. First Synthesis may be applied on terminally ill people to cure them. Then - on some inevitable volunteers. Finally - in galactic scale, but not before moving refusers to some star cluster and disabling Relay there for Synthesis apply duration.

you are truly a frigtening...thing.

[blueumi]

yes as he/she is the catalyst as shepard is dead so it's just an ai version of shepard who would have the same logic and programming as the catalyst does

[Steelcan]

And people call me insane....

[RukiaKuchki]

Well, I would imagine that the base 'personality' traits of the original AI created to solve the conflict between organics and synthetics is based on the knowledge, experience and moral attitudes of those that created it - the Leviathans. The impression I get of the Leviathans is that they are arrogant, unwavering and lack empathy. I believe that by Shepard becoming the new catalyst, he will infuse the Reapers with his own personality, knowledge, experience and most importantly compassion that would stop the cycles of destruction. Still, there has to be an element of subjugation to prevent organics rejecting this brave new world. It is after all in sentient organics' nature to rebel against any kind of control, even if it is for the greater good. So, I must concede that short term, sure, the Reapers will help rebuild but how long will this peace last? A few thousand years? Isn't there always going to be the possibility that the organics eventually refuse to accept the Catalyst/Reaper's doctrine of peace? I think the ultimate outcome is going to be similar to that of destroy, in that the cycles will begin again. Eventually.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

My Shepard wouldn't.

[DoomsdayDevice]

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

And people call me insane....

You're just misunderstood. 

[DoomsdayDevice]

Javik: This is what happens when you allow machines to think for you... you become slaves.

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

And people call me insane....

Perhaps you are. Some are just, uh, more so.

[Steelcan]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: This is what happens when you allow machines to think for you... you become slaves.

if it means I don't have to do math on pen and paper, that's fine by me.