225 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenInWar]

I'd like to expand on that original response.

Isn't indoctrination, explained in the codex, as the complete wiping out of ones individuality replaced with the goals of the reapers? Where in the series has there ever been an indication that inspiration could be seen in what essentially is turning someone into a remote control car for genocidal purposes?

[Hadeedak]

To be fair.... My control Shep totally kills the Illusive Man. Not gets him to shoot himself. Shoots him.

And then she controls the Reapers.

Hey, TIM ends up dead.

[DirtyPhoenix]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: This is what happens when you allow machines to think for you... you become slaves.

Javik: I have one rule. If a machine speaks, kill it. *Shepard proceeds to kill EDI, because Javik asked.*

His mouth is a source is source of a lot of bigoted gibberish. He himself is no less than a fundamentalist. I'd take anything he says with a (huge) pinch of salt.

[DirtyPhoenix]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

He follows up with "Kill the Illusive Man. That's an order."

So there you have it.

Yeah TIM is dead allright. Dead as a Dodo.

[BleedingUranium]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I'd like to expand on that original response.

Isn't indoctrination, explained in the codex, as the complete wiping out of ones individuality replaced with the goals of the reapers? Where in the series has there ever been an indication that inspiration could be seen in what essentially is turning someone into a remote control car for genocidal purposes?

There's no control in indoctrination, it's just manipulation and suggestions. It's almost identical to inception; the thing in the movie, not the movie itself. Planting a thought or idea in someone's head and it will come to define that person, but the key point is that they believe it's their own idea, and that they're not being manipulated at all.

Eventually indoctinated agents think it wise to implant themselves with Reaper tech, which allows the Reapers direct control over them, instead of just influence. Over more time, their mind breaks down and they become nothing but the control, and are then tools on the level of husks.

Husks are created by forcibly implanting that tech, bypassing the actual indoctrination and just going to the control and mind wipe.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Steelcan wrote...

My ControlShep isn't going to reinstate the cycles, or start synthesis. It will basically prevent any extinctions while the galaxy develops on its own. Whether that future leads to synthesis is another matter.

This is what my Shepard will do post control as well. She'll not restart the cycle nor intervene in day-to-day politics of the galaxy. She'd only prevent any large-scale extinction and act as an archiver of data, of history of evolution of the galaxy, its (synthetic and organic) denizens.. and possibly act as a bulwark against possible extra-galactic threat.

[BleedingUranium]

pirate1802 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: This is what happens when you allow machines to think for you... you become slaves.

Javik: I have one rule. If a machine speaks, kill it. *Shepard proceeds to kill EDI, because Javik asked.*

His mouth is a source is source of a lot of bigoted gibberish. He himself is no less than a fundamentalist. I'd take anything he says with a (huge) pinch of salt.

On synthetics? Yes. On everything else? No.

[Dark_Enclave33]

 No she will not start a new cycle but watch over the galaxy but only to help when needed...

[DirtyPhoenix]

BleedingUranium wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: This is what happens when you allow machines to think for you... you become slaves.

Javik: I have one rule. If a machine speaks, kill it. *Shepard proceeds to kill EDI, because Javik asked.*

His mouth is a source is source of a lot of bigoted gibberish. He himself is no less than a fundamentalist. I'd take anything he says with a (huge) pinch of salt.

On synthetics? Yes. On everything else? No.

He mostly says things on synthetics. The original quote was on synthetics too.

[Dark_Enclave33]

I chose control because I spent a lot of time bringing synthetics and organics to together..but I will not synthesize cause I don't want it o be forced upon the galaxy...

[Asch Lavigne]

Since no one knows the truth about the Crucible aside from Shep and Shep is dead, I guess everyone just assumed the Crucible flipped the Reapers kill switch to off, they don't know about Shep controlling them so I'd be curious how everyone feels about the Reapers now. Like do they all live in fear that one day the Reapers will go back to killing them? Do they worship Reapers as to not offend them and have them stay friendly? They don't know Shep is behind the controls.

[Dark_Enclave33]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Since no one knows the truth about the Crucible aside from Shep and Shep is dead, I guess everyone just assumed the Crucible flipped the Reapers kill switch to off, they don't know about Shep controlling them so I'd be curious how everyone feels about the Reapers now. Like do they all live in fear that one day the Reapers will go back to killing them? Do they worship Reapers as to not offend them and have them stay friendly? They don't know Shep is behind the controls.

well they knew Shepard went up in the beam I presume and then all of a sudden the reapers stopped killing and destroying civilization..so that being said I'm sure they know in some way..

[DirtyPhoenix]

Dark_Enclave33 wrote...

I chose control because I spent a lot of time bringing synthetics and organics to together..but I will not synthesize cause I don't want it o be forced upon the galaxy...

Thats y reason as well. I'd never backstab my friends & allies, not until there are other options available, and certainly not after I brought them togather and gave them a new hope. I also don't want to force synthesis on the galaxy. And I certainly don't want to do nothing. So what's the remaining option? Control. The lesser of three (or four) evils. SO BE IT. Deal with it

[CynicalShep]

A cycle - probably not. Acting as a scarecrow so that nobody gets any ideas - definitely

[Asch Lavigne]

Dark_Enclave33 wrote...

Asch Lavigne wrote...

Since no one knows the truth about the Crucible aside from Shep and Shep is dead, I guess everyone just assumed the Crucible flipped the Reapers kill switch to off, they don't know about Shep controlling them so I'd be curious how everyone feels about the Reapers now. Like do they all live in fear that one day the Reapers will go back to killing them? Do they worship Reapers as to not offend them and have them stay friendly? They don't know Shep is behind the controls.

well they knew Shepard went up in the beam I presume and then all of a sudden the reapers stopped killing and destroying civilization..so that being said I'm sure they know in some way..

That's like assuming they know why all of sudden they're all part synthetic. Only Shep knew and died without passing that info to anyone. One more thing the EC didn't explain.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 15 janvier 2013 - 06:23 .

[Massa FX]

01101001 01110010 01110010 01100101 01101100 01100101 01110110 01100001 01101110 01110100

Life is irrelevant. I don't want my fate left to an artificial intelligence. Even with the memories of Shepard in-tact, who's to say the AI decides those memories are irrelevant and deletes them? AI shepard is no different from it's predecessor. 

Modifié par Massa FX, 15 janvier 2013 - 06:27 .

[BleedingUranium]

AIShep is as much Shepard as Cortana is Dr. Halsey.

[Boydsan]

I would assume my Shepard would eventually move the Reapers to another Galaxy or cause them to self destruct.

[Kataphrut94]

It's meant to be an upload of Shepard's personality and they at least matched that in broad strokes, hence the Paragon/Renegade dialogue. Considering Shep has spent the whole series fighting against this cycle and giving up so much to do so, I somehow doubt that the AI would suddenly decide to go back to genocide.

[Hendrik.III]

You cannot possibly predict what happens when a personality gets disembodied. But from that point on he only has memory of being an organic and is now a godlike entity. So... possibly yes. If you played the Overlord DLC you get a glimpse of how it could be, and that was a man who could think like a machine.

Over time Shepard WILL change, but not as a human, and there's no telling what he'll do. Chance is he'll go insane... I truly do not think a human personality taken out of it's body will still function properly since it's the senses that provide it with the experience that created it. This alone makes the control option a no-go for me. Control is not a solution, it's a gamble.

[BleedingUranium]

Hendrik.III wrote...

You cannot possibly predict what happens when a personality gets disembodied. But from that point on he only has memory of being an organic and is now a godlike entity. So... possibly yes. If you played the Overlord DLC you get a glimpse of how it could be, and that was a man who could think like a machine.

Over time Shepard WILL change, but not as a human, and there's no telling what he'll do. Chance is he'll go insane... I truly do not think a human personality taken out of it's body will still function properly since it's the senses that provide it with the experience that created it. This alone makes the control option a no-go for me. Control is not a solution, it's a gamble.

Grunt is another good example of this. Okeer implanted him with lots of memories, emotions, grudges, knowledge, but in the end, Grunt was not Okeer, even if he had all his memories and such. As EDI put it: "[Grunt] may know of [Okeer's] views, but he will not neccessarily share them". Cortana and Halsey are the same way in Halo.

[dorktainian]

I always assumed shepard was talking as a reaper - and anything he said should be taken from a reaper perspective rather than from a human perspective. If a reaper tells you he'll look after humanity you should assume that he means the pulped remains of humanity stored in his body.

[Argolas]

Boydsan wrote...

I would assume my Shepard would eventually move the Reapers to another Galaxy or cause them to self destruct.

If only Shepard would, but EC makes clear that Shepard will use the reapers.

It's just that Control Shepard is not Shepard. Shepard is dead, even reaper kid said so. The only thing of Shepard that will remain is his/her "thoughts" and "memories", but it is also said that Shepard loses "everything". It is not quite clear what that means, but if you assume that "everything" includes thoughts and memories, it may be that the thoughts and memories "continue" as it says, but Shepard will still lose them, that it would they are no longer Shepard's but belong to that new entity that is not Shepard. The new entity is not organic and has no connection to organics. Shepard will only act according to his/her programming now, and the EC dialogue suggests that this programming is Shepard's thoughts and memories. This seems to be a good thing at first glance, at least with Paragon Shepards, but we know that the Catalyst hat a good goal as well, being the preservation of organic life, and we know that didn't end well. So I'd say given the fact that this new entity will have no connection to organics, I would be pretty worried what might happen, may it be a new cycle or something else.

There are also a lot of angles like interpreting the Control narration from a reaper perspective or involving indoctrination, but what I described above is probably the most literal way of questioning it.

[Eterna]

No. Why the hell would he/she?

[Eterna]

Samtheman63 wrote...

doubt control is even possible

Cast aside your doubts, because it is!