177 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

I thought the number of LI in DA2 was about right as it provided some depth to the content. I'd like more content in the relationships ideally. Non keen on the false economy of greater choice but insubstantial content.

Not keen on ideas like forced cheating anymore than i am with any other aspect of story railroading. If the possibility was a consequence of player choice during the romance or player choice that would be fine. Equally if a romance was only triggerable by some other element of player choice i'd be fine with that. Equally the non romanced companions like Aveline who showed no interest in the player character worked fine.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

schebobo wrote...

Just saw this article on eurogamer about David Gaider's thoughts on romance in bioware games (well dragon age mostly).

http://www.eurogamer...riter-discusses

Makes some very interesting points, particularly about every character being romancable and bi.

Thoughts??

If I can't interact freely with my companions, you may as well scrap romance option because I'm so pissed to play it. That what my thought is.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:11 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

If I can't interact freely with my companions, you may as well scrap romance option because I'm so pissed to play it. That what my thought is.

What are you talking about?

[Plaintiff]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

schebobo wrote...

Just saw this article on eurogamer about David Gaider's thoughts on romance in bioware games (well dragon age mostly).

http://www.eurogamer...riter-discusses

Makes some very interesting points, particularly about every character being romancable and bi.

Thoughts??

If I can't interact freely with my companions, you may as well scrap romance option because I'm so pissed to play it. That what my thought is.

You can interact freely with your companions. You can visit them at their hangouts any time you like, or speak to them while they're in your party. That option never went away.

[esper]

wright1978 wrote...

I thought the number of LI in DA2 was about right as it provided some depth to the content. I'd like more content in the relationships ideally. Non keen on the false economy of greater choice but insubstantial content.

Not keen on ideas like forced cheating anymore than i am with any other aspect of story railroading. If the possibility was a consequence of player choice during the romance or player choice that would be fine. Equally if a romance was only triggerable by some other element of player choice i'd be fine with that. Equally the non romanced companions like Aveline who showed no interest in the player character worked fine.

I would like an Li that if the players keeps hitting on all the Li's (and perhaps even sleeps around in brothels) the Li takes a page from pc's book and do the same.

[Blazingkats]

Considering Gaider doesn't like romance,i think he did a great job with Alistair and Morrigan.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

schebobo wrote...

Just saw this article on eurogamer about David Gaider's thoughts on romance in bioware games (well dragon age mostly).

http://www.eurogamer...riter-discusses

Makes some very interesting points, particularly about every character being romancable and bi.

Thoughts??

If I can't interact freely with my companions, you may as well scrap romance option because I'm so pissed to play it. That what my thought is.

You can interact freely with your companions. You can visit them at their hangouts any time you like, or speak to them while they're in your party. That option never went away.

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

[Herr Uhl]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

Do you know of any game where this isn't the case?

[Gazardiel]

I agree with Gaider's perspective on the romances, and hope that he continues to aim for the balance he talks about. I don't want passive "cuddle bunnies" in DA, and I don't want collectible playmates. The positioning of romance in these games is good - there is enough to make it fun to engage in on the side of the plot, but not so much that it overwhelms the game. As far as the variety and selection of LIs go - I like that not everyone is romanceable. It would be easy for this to go really narcissistic if too many NPCs could be romanced; there are nice mods out there for that as well as more sex/romance-focused games.

I'm also okay with some tragic romance, but please don't go 100% Joss Whedon on us (as in, your LI dies as soon as you acknowledge your love). That would be too much.

Addendum: I also like that Gaider sees romances as one way to emotionally engage a player in the game and with the NPCs; it serves a purpose in the game experience rather than being just a feature.

Modifié par Gazardiel, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:37 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

Do you know of any game where this isn't the case?

Origins. BG2. Neverwinter Nights. . EDIT: Took off Jade Empire and KOTOR off my list. Turns out they were Chapter-driven, which I had not noticed durng my playthroughs. Then again, there were many chapters/sections in these games, not just a long 1st and 2nd Act and a small tacked on 3rd, so maybe that's why things did not feel so forced.

In DA:O, you could enter into a romance with someone the first time you talk with them and go through their entire gamut of responses. Not ideal, true, but there were no flags that put set requirements on things. DA2 did it so that you couldn't even speak to your LI/Companions for years on end, except for them to comment how dirty their house was. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:39 .

[SparksMKII]

I would rather have a few really fleshed out romance options (whether tragic or good) over a truckload of bland romance options (cuddle bunnies as the poster above me said).

In this case less is more (my personal preference).

[Herr Uhl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

Do you know of any game where this isn't the case?

Origins. BG2. Neverwinter Nights. Jade Empire. KOTOR 1 and 2. 

Pretty much every Bioware game except the ME games and DA2.

In DA:O, you could enter into a romance with someone the first time you talk with them and go through their entire gamut of responses. Not ideal, true, but there were no flags that put set requirements on things. DA2 did that, where you couldn't even speak to your LI/Companions for years on end, except for them to comment how dirty their house was. 

No, there is always plot dependent dialouge. Alistair has his locket and sister, Sten has his sword, Oghren tells you to sod off until you do A paragon of her kind. Jade Empire relies on you going to places to unlock dialouge options.

You eventually end up with the "Hi" -> "Looped dialouge". Is it just a plea for the investigation option of DAO?

[Fast Jimmy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

No, there is always plot dependent dialouge. Alistair has his locket and sister, Sten has his sword, Oghren tells you to sod off until you do A paragon of her kind. Jade Empire relies on you going to places to unlock dialouge options.

You eventually end up with the "Hi" -> "Looped dialouge". Is it just a plea for the investigation option of DAO?

All of those dialogues are there regardless of Romance. If you reach a certain approval level, their side quest will activate. Side quest content is not what we are talking about - we are talking about Romance content.

You can enter into a romance with Allistair, have him say he loves you, knock boots with him, etc. all without any plot flags being raised. Same thing with Morrigan, Leliana and Zevran. If you have a conversation guide and the right gifts, you can do this pretty much on your first conversation.

Again, that's not ideal. But putting arbitrary road blocks like if you've killed the Arishok as to whether or not you can sleep with someone is, well... arbitrary.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:40 .

[sea-]

I want an S&M romance with Dog. I will not be satisfied until my needs are met by you, BioWare!

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

Do you know of any game where this isn't the case?

Origins. BG2. Neverwinter Nights. Jade Empire. KOTOR 1 and 2. 

Pretty much every Bioware game except the ME games and DA2.

In DA:O, you could enter into a romance with someone the first time you talk with them and go through their entire gamut of responses. Not ideal, true, but there were no flags that put set requirements on things. DA2 did that, where you couldn't even speak to your LI/Companions for years on end, except for them to comment how dirty their house was. 

No, there is always plot dependent dialouge. Alistair has his locket and sister, Sten has his sword, Oghren tells you to sod off until you do A paragon of her kind. Jade Empire relies on you going to places to unlock dialouge options.

You eventually end up with the "Hi" -> "Looped dialouge". Is it just a plea for the investigation option of DAO?

After 3 or 4 dialogue line per conversation? You've got to be kidding, right?

[Wulfram]

The romances are all dependant on the side quests to advance, though. Which generally require the advancement of the main quest - Morrigan needs you to have recovered the book from the tower, Alistair needs you to know he's King, Zevran requires you to go to Denerim for the landsmeet.

Requiring a certain amount of time to pass isn't really arbitrary, anyway. And since time advances according to the plot, then so does the romance.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

Do you know of any game where this isn't the case?

Origins. BG2. Neverwinter Nights. Jade Empire. KOTOR 1 and 2. 

Pretty much every Bioware game except the ME games and DA2.

In DA:O, you could enter into a romance with someone the first time you talk with them and go through their entire gamut of responses. Not ideal, true, but there were no flags that put set requirements on things. DA2 did that, where you couldn't even speak to your LI/Companions for years on end, except for them to comment how dirty their house was. 

No, there is always plot dependent dialouge. Alistair has his locket and sister, Sten has his sword, Oghren tells you to sod off until you do A paragon of her kind. Jade Empire relies on you going to places to unlock dialouge options.

You eventually end up with the "Hi" -> "Looped dialouge". Is it just a plea for the investigation option of DAO?

After 3 or 4 dialogue line per conversation? You've got to be kidding, right?

I'd like to point to Leliana really quick from Origins. You could ask her over six different conversation options just about stories. Nothing character or plot related, just stories. Each story had dozens of lines of dialogue. All just at your finger tips. If you wanted to hear a story again, guess what? You could.

This was in addition to the three or four conversation options she starts out with, her side quest dialogue, her romance dialogue, her dialogue to discuss your personal details (such as if you were an elf) and her romance triangle dialogue (I love you, but I say you with them!). 


In DA2, we got one conversation per Act. Maybe two, if we were lucky. That's terrible.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Wulfram wrote...

The romances are all dependant on the side quests to advance, though. Which generally require the advancement of the main quest - Morrigan needs you to have recovered the book from the tower, Alistair needs you to know he's King, Zevran requires you to go to Denerim for the landsmeet.

Requiring a certain amount of time to pass isn't really arbitrary, anyway. And since time advances according to the plot, then so does the romance.

Exactly! In DA 2, time only advances through Varric. And varric won't advances  time unless you completed the main quest. That's the problem, Hell you can't even go back and ask Merril what the hell is going on in ACT 1 when you're already in ACT 2. She will forever lamented how her house looks dirty. And for ME 2, there is no sense of time at all. Mainly because there is no sense of passing day and nights. Only sense of moving the story forward. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Wulfram wrote...

The romances are all dependant on the side quests to advance, though. Which generally require the advancement of the main quest - Morrigan needs you to have recovered the book from the tower, Alistair needs you to know he's King, Zevran requires you to go to Denerim for the landsmeet.

Requiring a certain amount of time to pass isn't really arbitrary, anyway. And since time advances according to the plot, then so does the romance.

No, none of this is true. You can continue the character's story arc through plot-triggered events, yes. But these events play out nearly the exact same if you are friends or LIs. 

Romance-specific content is not plot dependent (with the exception of Allistair dumping you after the Landsmeet and Morrigan propositioning herself to you in the DR).

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:00 .

[Herr Uhl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Romance-specific content is not plot dependent (with the except of Allistair dumping you after the Landsmeet and Morrigan propositioning herself to you in the DR).

And Zevran gets after the trip to Denerim. Or so I was told by enthusiastic Zevran romancers.

I find the idea of having no unlockable content through plot progression to make the characters flat. I want them to react to what is happening. I got kind of tired of not getting any new content for the majority of the characters after I finished Redcliffe (did Orz and tower first).

The main complaint from you and Sacred Fantasy seems to be lack of lines, not how they're dispensed, am I correct in assuming this? If you were able to do the ask Leliana for a story shebang with Merril, would that make it ok that you can't romance her until after the Arishok?

[Plaintiff]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The romances are all dependant on the side quests to advance, though. Which generally require the advancement of the main quest - Morrigan needs you to have recovered the book from the tower, Alistair needs you to know he's King, Zevran requires you to go to Denerim for the landsmeet.

Requiring a certain amount of time to pass isn't really arbitrary, anyway. And since time advances according to the plot, then so does the romance.

No, none of this is true. You can continue the character's story arc through plot-triggered events, yes. But these events play out nearly the exact same if you are friends or LIs. 

Romance-specific content is not plot dependent (with the exception of Allistair dumping you after the Landsmeet and Morrigan propositioning herself to you in the DR).

If you're in a romance, then the content of the character's story is altered, so it's perfectly legitimate to say that their romance arc requires these tasks to be performed.

[In Exile]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
Then should I add, without hearing them looping the same dialogues for infinity until I move the plot forward. Does that clear enough for you?

? That's how it works in every game.

[In Exile]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

And for ME 2, there is no sense of time at all. Mainly because there is no sense of passing day and nights. Only sense of moving the story forward. 

That's the pre-DA2 approach for Bioware. It's the same in ME3 and DA:O. The only sense of time you have in DA:O at all is that Wynne at some point says it's been a few months. Otherwise for all you know the game's taken a week.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Romance-specific content is not plot dependent (with the except of Allistair dumping you after the Landsmeet and Morrigan propositioning herself to you in the DR).

And Zevran gets after the trip to Denerim. Or so I was told by enthusiastic Zevran romancers.

I find the idea of having no unlockable content through plot progression to make the characters flat. I want them to react to what is happening. I got kind of tired of not getting any new content for the majority of the characters after I finished Redcliffe (did Orz and tower first).

The main complaint from you and Sacred Fantasy seems to be lack of lines, not how they're dispensed, am I correct in assuming this? If you were able to do the ask Leliana for a story shebang with Merril, would that make it ok that you can't romance her until after the Arishok?

I don't care when can I romance her. I only care when can I know everything about her before I even start my first primary quest. I would like to know who my compinions are so that I wouldn't have to waste the next few hours listening to boring complaints over and over again. 3 or 4 dialogue lines per conversation just doesn't cut it. If I'm not acquinted enough with my own companions then how am I suppose to be interested in romance? 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:14 .

[LPPrince]

PhantomGinger wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Adding different types of romance:  romances where your
partner cheats on you, romances where the character is already involved
in another relationship

Gimme, Gaider.

Could you imagine.

You want to romance someone, they're up for it, but they're already committed to someone else either in marriage or not.

The dialogue, the sneakiness, the intrigue, the inevitable eruption, oh hot damn.

Right? I'm getting butterflies just thinking about it.

Romance is a wonderful feature in BioWare's games, it's one of the reasons I love them. But it is indeed a feature, it isn't as important as the story. I would be sad if I had to do without them, but I'd find a way to deal with the pain.

Somehow. 

I don't think Bioware will ever remove every inkling of romance entirely, at least not in these types of games. So no worries.