177 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No, none of this is true. You can continue the character's story arc through plot-triggered events, yes. But these events play out nearly the exact same if you are friends or LIs. 

Romance-specific content is not plot dependent (with the exception of Allistair dumping you after the Landsmeet and Morrigan propositioning herself to you in the DR).

They have romance specific content that will only trigger after you've completed their sidequests.  Without completing the sidequests, Zevran will not give the Warden an earring, Leliana will not sleep with the Warden, and Morrigan will not talk of love and then refuse to sleep with the PC.

[upsettingshorts]

Loading_Ammo wrote...

Considering Gaider doesn't like romance,i think he did a great job with Alistair and Morrigan.

People who think he's saying this really need to re-read his blog.

Or stop hearing about it through Eurogamer's blatant yellow journalism coverage.

Having read the blog first and then seeing Eurogamer's coverage was at first befuddling, then downright upsetting.  It's either negligent incompetence or downright lying for hits.

The blog is basically, point-by-point, indirectly addressing several common BSN arguments regarding romances.  He's not lamenting their inclusion in the games, he's being critical of several interpretations of and assumptions about them made by fans in places like here.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:28 .

[nightscrawl]

schebobo wrote...

Just saw this article on eurogamer about David Gaider's thoughts on romance in bioware games (well dragon age mostly).

http://www.eurogamer...riter-discusses

Makes some very interesting points, particularly about every character being romancable and bi.

Thoughts??

Thanks for the link. I don't regularly check his tumblr, but this article is basically just a summary of the blog post (linked in the article), so I'd encourage people to just go read that instead. Straight from the horse's mouth and all that.


[edit]
Dammit, Shorts beat me to it by 4 minutes!

Modifié par nightscrawl, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:29 .

[Fast Jimmy]

I find the idea of having no unlockable content through plot progression to make the characters flat. I want them to react to what is happening. I got kind of tired of not getting any new content for the majority of the characters after I finished Redcliffe (did Orz and tower first).

Origins had lots of BOTH content. Content you could unlock solely based on Approval at any time AND content that was plot triggered. Leliana would tell you her life story with a high enough approval, but she also initiated conversation after the Brecilain Forest and after her quest with Marjorie. Allistair could give you his silly rose based strictly on his approval rating at any given time and also reacts to events dealing with his parentage. Morrigan can be romances (and then broken up with at her request) after your first conversation with her, but she still ties into the Broken Circle Quest and, obviously, the Dark Ritual. 

DA2 based your entire interactions with your companions on their Frienship/Rivalry rating and completely arbitrary plot events (like if you've killed the Arishok or visited the Deep Roads). This isn't reacting to the world... it's arbitrary road blocks. If there were some filler content there to help us feel like they were real people as opposed to flat, one liner NPCs, it wouldn't be as bad. 

But apparently the part of the budget devoted to making companions more interesting outside of their set, one or two encounters per Act was instead spent on making custom Romance/Rivalmance content for them. 


And THAT'S the problem. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

It's not a summary. It's a frigging hit piece. Just like their last article "summarizing" his Tumblr blog.

[nightscrawl]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's not a summary. It's a frigging hit piece. Just like their last article "summarizing" his Tumblr blog.

Well I didn't actually read the "article." I just saw that it had a link to the tumblr and contained a bunch of quotes. I rarely read gaming rag articles for that very reason, unless they contain actual dev quotes from an interview.

[Wulfram]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

DA2 based your entire interactions with your companions on their Frienship/Rivalry rating and completely arbitrary plot events (like if you've killed the Arishok or visited the Deep Roads). This isn't reacting to the world... it's arbitrary road blocks. If there were some filler content there to help us feel like they were real people as opposed to flat, one liner NPCs, it wouldn't be as bad. 

It's not (inherently) arbitrary to base things on the passage of time.  Which is what's actually going on there - the Deep Roads and the killing of the Arishok prompt a jump forward in time of 3 years.

Though it's true some of the romances didn't interact very well with the time jumps, which could lead to things feeling arbitrary.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

thats1evildude wrote...

Nice article, and I'm in agreement. Romances are good where they are right now, ie. optional and limited to a handful of party members.

I agree. Dragon Age is an RPG, not a dating sim.

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 15 janvier 2013 - 03:08 .

[Fast Jimmy]

^

If it actually had felt like time had passed, I'd be okay with it. But everyone is in the same place, doing the same thing, for three years at a time (Hawke included). Aside from Varric's narration (just like aside from Wynne's mention of a couple months), it could have been a few weeks in those time jumps rather than a few years.

[Emzamination]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Nice article, and I'm in agreement. Romances are good where they are right now, ie. optional and limited to a handful of party members.

I agree. Dragon Age is an RPG, not a dating sim.

You obviously don't know what a dating sim is.

[Aggie Punbot]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Varric is a hairy dwarf, which is definitely sexy in my opinion, but most girls these days don't go for that.

Clearly you have not ventured into The Hobbit fandom.

[Fast Jimmy]

Emzamination wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Nice article, and I'm in agreement. Romances are good where they are right now, ie. optional and limited to a handful of party members.

I agree. Dragon Age is an RPG, not a dating sim.

You obviously don't know what a dating sim is.

http://social.biowar...2807/3#15585691

Why do people say this? Like a dating sim is some obscure, never-before seen form of gaming?

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Nice article, and I'm in agreement. Romances are good where they are right now, ie. optional and limited to a handful of party members.

I agree. Dragon Age is an RPG, not a dating sim.

You obviously don't know what a dating sim is.

http://social.biowar...2807/3#15585691

Why do people say this? Like a dating sim is some obscure, never-before seen form of gaming?

Just because two genres share a few traits, does not mean one is trying to become the other. Shall I next say grand theft auto is turning into gran turismo because they both include simulated driving & racing?

[HK-90210]

thats1evildude wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

LI cheats on you? OH GOD NO. WHY. NO.
(That would break my fragile little heart! ;_

They will never do that. The uproar would be deafening. I mean, there were people driven insane by Alistair's dumping in DAO; you still see them post threads from time to time ranting about "Altair's betrayal" or some other nonsense.

Can you imagine the backlash from a love interest who cheats on you? There'd be mass suicides.

Jacob.

[Fast Jimmy]

The traits I outlined ARE a dating sim. There's not much else to them. If Grand Theft Auto were to make a realistic driving simulator that mimicked in almost every fashion a Gran Turismo game, it would be a racing sim with sandbox gameplay. Bioware games have put a romance simulator, in many respects, in their games. And just like GTA would become a shallower game if they focused a lot of resources on being a racing sim, I (and others) think that Bioware games are becoming shallower by adding more and more elements of a dating sim.

[TallonOverlord]

as far as romances are concern i'd like it to be a bit more complex an more broad than just "in party". If i have a strong male lead for example and i want to marry the kings daughter as a way to get a shot at the throne i should be able too. I also think that if i want a haram as a character i should be able to have that. Mainly with romance i want choices beyond the norm. If for example i think the shop keep is sweet and i want to romance her to get a discount on items and have a steady girlfriend i should be able to have that option. Just think this would be a better option is all.

[Sanunes]

I treat most media anymore with a lot of skepticism because they are either in it for ratings or clicks and not actually in it to report the facts. It really bothers me when something bad happens and for a week you will have 24/7 news coverage from what the emergency works are eating to making guesses to the reasons behind how it happened. Internet gaming journalism feels the same, as much as people want to complain about reviews being bought, a lot of internet articles seem to be written in the direction of attracting the current feeling of the internet to attract more people to their webpage, instead of possibly disagreeing with current sentiment.

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The traits I outlined ARE a dating sim. There's not much else to them. If Grand Theft Auto were to make a realistic driving simulator that mimicked in almost every fashion a Gran Turismo game, it would be a racing sim with sandbox gameplay. Bioware games have put a romance simulator, in many respects, in their games. And just like GTA would become a shallower game if they focused a lot of resources on being a racing sim, I (and others) think that Bioware games are becoming shallower by adding more and more elements of a dating sim.

Incorrect. you listed non-exclusive traits that other genres use as well. Particularly pumping up stats and leveling up are traits more akin to Rpgs, hack & slash and shooters than dating sims. Furthermore the stats and leveling up in a bioware game have absolutely nothing to do with the romance itself. Just because two games share traits, does not mean they are turning into each other.

Modifié par Emzamination, 15 janvier 2013 - 03:57 .

[Fast Jimmy]

What trait about dating sims did I not list? Specifically a trait that no other genre uses, since that is a criteria piece now.

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

What trait about dating sims did I not list? Specifically a trait that no other genre uses, since that is a criteria piece now.

Dating

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Isn't that what an expedition to The Deep Roads is code for?

[Fredward]

Uggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh. But more. Or at least deeper.

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Isn't that what an expedition to The Deep Roads is code for?

That's gone right over my head

[TallonOverlord]

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Isn't that what an expedition to The Deep Roads is code for?

That's gone right over my head

He was making a bad sex joke.....and one that wasnt funny either.

[Emzamination]

TallonOverlord wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Isn't that what an expedition to The Deep Roads is code for?

That's gone right over my head

He was making a bad sex joke.....and one that wasnt funny either.

Oh Thx for the clarification