329 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The second comes from the traditional bias Bioware tends to have towards nice guys doing just as well or better than the not-nice guys.

I'm not sure where the idea that the opposite is somehow true comes from.

this creates an imbalance between the incentives to play anything less than a morally idealistic protagonist: when having a more cyncial morality concerned with greater-good and risk-mitigation is unnecessary because those risks never carry out, what's the point of not playing the Idealist?

Bioware doesn't usually do greater good options. By that, I mean that most options in Bioware games that people portray as realistic aren't for the greater good - there's usually just the idiotic choice and the good choice.

[GreenSoda]

It's important to me that I have the feeling of having achieved something at the end. It's also important that it doesn't feel too saccherine (yuck).

Basically, Bioware should just look at their own endings from ME3...and than do the exact opposite of whatever led to the thinking process that resulted in that c******k of an ending and everything will be golden.

Modifié par GreenSoda, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:54 .

[Wulfram]

In Exile wrote...

I think getting played by Morrigai and Flemeth still can leave the player feeling powerless. I've never understood the lack of complaints about that, though. DA:O drops the whole "Wardens die to kill the archdemon!" revelation on you right at the endgame; Morrigan brings up her ritual right then.

Somehow that last minute relevation is not bad, in the eyes of most.

It's not too last minute - it's at beginning of the end game, I'd say.  And it doesn't stop most people from still coming up with an ending that suits them - the only people it really screws up are the Alistairmancers, and you do get the occasional angry one of them pop up.

[Blazingkats]

GreenSoda wrote...

It's important to me that I have the feeling of having achieved something at the end. It's also important that it doesn't feel too saccherine (yuck).

Basically, Bioware should just look at their own endings from ME3...and than do the exact opposite of whatever led to the thinking process that resulted in that c******k of an ending and everything will be golden.

Exactly.

[Galbrant]

I don't care as long as its written well and doesn't make me feel like all my efforts were in vain. If the story happen to be outside of the player control like the ye oldie Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid games. Go ahead screw the hero over.

[In Exile]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
People with utilitarian ethics don't choose to sacrifice a few to safeguard the many because they don't value the few, or because we enjoy sacrifice: we do it because we believe it will be for the best.

So what you're saying is that you're frustrated that Bioware isn't doing enough to validate your own personal ethics?

What's the point of foresight in a morality claimed to be equally valid, if it never pays off?

Speaking design-wise, ME was a choose your flavour type of morality. It wasn't about getting a better outcome through some moral system: it was about choosing how humanity and the world developed. If people wanted the federation, they could have that. If they wanted a hard as nails pragmatic reality, they could have that, and both were valid, in that both led to winning the game.

But apparently for some people, their choice is irrelevant unless the other choice is explicitly shown to be wrong.

[Jonata]

In Exile wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, you can pretend that the Dark Ritual was some sort of ominous thing that could maybe lead to a horrible disaster. Except we all knew that wasn't going to happen.

I think getting played by Morrigai and Flemeth still can leave the player feeling powerless. I've never understood the lack of complaints about that, though. DA:O drops the whole "Wardens die to kill the archdemon!" revelation on you right at the endgame; Morrigan brings up her ritual right then.

Somehow that last minute relevation is not bad, in the eyes of most.

Probably it's because of the set up and execution of such twists. Towards the game there is a feeling of a true, organic climax building up to some kind of revelation, the players knows that there is something going on, both with the Witches of the Wild and the Grey Wardens.

The way the story is crafted makes you expect something and when that something arrives, you're not going to say "What the hell?", you're going to say "Now THAT's what was going on!". 

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...
It's not too last minute - it's at beginning of the end game, I'd say.

I didn't find it different, but like I said (or tried to say) YMMV.

I felt that it invalidated most of your efforts - because it turns the job of the armies into pure cannon fodder - and it makes the whole strategy kind of silly (there are 3 living Grey Wardens in Ferelden - if they die, everything is over; the archdemon can sense then, and its darkspawn are fodder - why does it even try to kill the non-GWs at all)? 

And it doesn't stop most people from still coming up with an ending that suits them - the only people it really screws up are the Alistairmancers, and you do get the occasional angry one of them pop up.

To be fair to Alistairmancers, at least they're not asking for a second game to be made just for them.

[sea-]

I want an ending like Mass Effect 3's: nothing is explained and even more questions are raised, the entire plot is undermined by a last-minute deus ex machina, the endings themselves are ripped off from Deus Ex, all choices in the game are rendered completely inconsequential, and it goes on to be a hilarious PR train wreck for BioWare.

Modifié par sea-, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:08 .

[Knight of Dane]

I don't want one ending again.

[GreyLycanTrope]

I want an ending that's consistent with the theme and narrative structure of the character I'm playing and personality I'm able to impose on them whether that character is a paladin archetype or ruthless archetype. A relection to the choices I made along the way would also be good, basically something along the lines of how DA:O ended.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 15 janvier 2013 - 02:12 .

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I'd like the ending to linger with me awhile after I've finished my first playthrough. A super happy shiny bright ending isn't likely to fulfill that need.

[nightscrawl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

To answer seriously, I'm not going to say what ending I'd like, because it depends on the story itself.

Here I was ready with a response, then you have to make me change my mind.

I suppose this applies to me too. There are some stories and settings where a Candyland ending isn't really appropriate, and would end up feeling lame. On the other hand, there are others where that is the function of the story, like a Jane Austen novel; there may be trials, tribulations, and tears along the way, but in the end everything works out for everyone. I don't think that fits in with Dragon Age. There needs to be some darkness and loss, or the hard fought victories are, to me, less grand.

I thought DAO had the right amount of everything, really.

[HolyAvenger]

No /Sten.

[Beerfish]

Here is my thoughts on it. If it is a series of games then I don't mind dark or difficult endings in early games, however I for sure 100% want a sunshine and lolly pops ending for the final game of a series and this is why ME3 failed so badly in that regard.

You can have a bit of both and it still feel satisfying such as ME1 and DAO. I liked DA2 well enough but the ending was not good as far as what happened to Hawke.

[Sith Grey Warden]

There should be an unambiguously good ending, but make us work for it. Make it require the most difficult feats, the most challenging fights, the most cunning actions. It should be something earned, but it should be there. That way, if you earn it, it truly does feel justified to have such a "good" ending.

[Estelindis]

I would like endings in the fashion of DA:O. I still don't know to this day what the "best" ending for that game would be for my Warden, because each and every variant has attractions and drawbacks that make sense and cohere with the rest of the game up to that point.  It has a similar dynamic to that old saying that you can only ever have two out of three from the following list: fast, cheap, and good.

I would see this as worlds away from the ME3 endings. In that case, I also can't say which ending is "best," but it's really more of a case that I can't say which ending is in any way morally acceptable to me or my Shepard. It's less a sense of different costs to victory as it is to different ways of showing me that victory is impossible. (I get that this may sound strange to people given what we see in the EC epilogues, but from my point of view Shep has no way of knowing this.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 15 janvier 2013 - 04:03 .

[esper]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There should be an unambiguously good ending, but make us work for it. Make it require the most difficult feats, the most challenging fights, the most cunning actions. It should be something earned, but it should be there. That way, if you earn it, it truly does feel justified to have such a "good" ending.

Which makes that there are only one right path through the game as only one particular pattern gives the golden ending, all other ways through the game basically means you roleplayed it wrong and bioware does not approve.

You people have to remember that this is a game, if one ending is so much more golden than the rest you end up feeling like there is a way (only one right way) to win the game which kills roleplaying (at least it does for me).

[Potato Cat]

I want multiple endings. The ending in DA2 was either Hawke is Viscount! or Hawke Is Not Viscount! and even then they immediately nullified this and had Hawke disappear regardless. Put me right off my weetabix.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

No.

[wright1978]

Elfman wrote...

I want multiple endings. The ending in DA2 was either Hawke is Viscount! or Hawke Is Not Viscount! and even then they immediately nullified this and had Hawke disappear regardless. Put me right off my weetabix.

I'd prefer something more like DAO which has a single base ending(death of archdemon) where the variation comes from the choices your character has made throughout the game. ME3 would have been better advised to have followed this route rather than trying to force 3 different philosophies onto the ending which didn't particularly fit and lacked any sense of personal choice.

[bEVEsthda]

Absolutely.
I want at least one possible ending like that.

Everybody dies and such drivel doesn't actually make stories better.

I recently finished Ian Banks'  'Matter'. And it didn't impress me at all. So simple, so cheap, and we (audience) are supposed to be overwhelmed by the finish. Excuse me while I fart.
'Inversions* is still his best. Don't understand why he's so lazy recently. But I suppose he can be. Probably gets paid in advance.

Now, 'Child 44', that's a helluva novel! Damnest thing I've read in a long time.

[Addai]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There should be an unambiguously good ending, but make us work for it. Make it require the most difficult feats, the most challenging fights, the most cunning actions. It should be something earned, but it should be there. That way, if you earn it, it truly does feel justified to have such a "good" ending.

I have to disagree here.  I don't want to spend an entire game trying to read the devs' minds about what I'm supposed to be doing.  I also feel like "goody goody" choices aren't punished enough, in that sometimes they should have unintended bad consequences.  DAO actually did this quite well.

In answer to the OP, I don't care if it's mostly happy or mostly sad, as long as the ending brings some kind of closure and a sense that I had an impact on the story.

[Medhia Nox]

I like a Jack Nicholson quote from a movie to describe how I see a lot of people. It's the movie "As Good As it Gets" - Helen Hunt's character just gets done saying everyone's got a crap life.

"It's not true. Some of us have great stories, pretty stories that take place at lakes with boats and friends and noodle salad. Just no one in this car. But, a lot of people, that's their story. Good times, noodle salad. What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good. "

Sour grapes is rather sad - yeah, I'm all for the possibility of a happy ending.