329 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

To a certain extent. I'd prefer it if there were losses/betrayals or a tragic death at some point in the story, but the actual ending itself should be lighthearted overall, presumably taking place after the victory. I want to be challenged by the story and have difficult decisions with no real answer, but I don't want the game to end on an incredibly negative note like Mass Effect 3 did. Even if the entire game is filled with death and misery, just a single shot of the Protagonist and his/her team who survived smiling and celebrating at the end would at least make the final thing we see from the game positive.

[Newschmoo]

The type of ending should ideally reflect the choices you have made in the game, whether that is happy or sad.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Or even something Jade Empire where you can marry the Princess, rule the land, and everyone loves you?

It's strange, I never considered any of the endings in Jade Empire to be Happy-Go-Happy. The suffering and inevitable death of the Water Dragon always impacts on me the terrible price of the "Perfect Kingdom" that you receive in the "happy" ending - I get left with a hole that oozes grief.

Different folks, different strokes.

As to Happy-Endings themselves - I'm not a fan, I always feel the story being told has less impact if there's a perfect resolution, every problem solved with barely a hitch. Each their own though, I wouldn't deny people the opportunity to go all in for flowers and rainbows - I just tend to avoid perfect endings.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 15 janvier 2013 - 06:33 .

[Fredward]

I need bittersweet like flowers need sunshine. Happy endings don't stick with me. Ever.

[Swagger7]

No. All endings should have some sadness about them, if only a little.

[Imported_beer]

Absolutely.

Tragedy during the story is fine. Tragedy that starts the story hones my motivation but I like thinking that in the end, I found all puppies and kittens happy homes, gave all kids a lollipop and rode into the sunset on a pink unicorn pony to a sparkling candy rainbow sunset with or without a unrealistically loving, strapping, hunk of an NPC who always tells me how AWESOME I am compared to every other pixelated character that he has never interacted with beyond a polite "hello".

Of course, this is never going to happen. So, I subject my interns to unimaginable horrors. Bioware is absolutely at fault for their trauma.

[vortex216]

I think having one (or more) of your companions dying in the final battle would be neat.

[lyriumaddict104]

iakus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

And rainbows?

Something like Knights of the Old Republic where you're the big damn hero who's saved everyone without a hint of bittersweet if that's what you're looking for?

Or even something Jade Empire where you can marry the Princess, rule the land, and everyone loves you?

Might be nice as an optimal outcome.

but what I favor is Earn Your Happy Ending.  Like what DAO provided.   

^This. I would prefer that one group's preference doesn't rule out another's. If all parties are pleased, that's good. Various endings that make most of us happy works for me. You want your bad ending, you get it. You want your good ending, you get it. What you put into the game affects your end results.

[wsandista]

It depends, what kind of lollipops we talkin 'bout?

Modifié par wsandista, 15 janvier 2013 - 08:49 .

[Karlone123]

Not a everything goes right ending or a everything goes wroing ending either, an ending where some people gain and some people lose is enough for me.

[Dragoonlordz]

I tend to think happy ever after endings with no sense of loss or sacrifice are unbelievable even in a fantasy world where there has been conflict or war. Happy ever after in such games is never about the story or plot, it is pure fanservice (imho) to the detriment of the story. It might be okay in a "find the cuppicake" story with ponys but the bigger the conflict, greater the war, the bigger the sacrifice or loss must be for it to make sense winning.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 janvier 2013 - 09:05 .

[esper]

lyriumaddict104 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

And rainbows?

Something like Knights of the Old Republic where you're the big damn hero who's saved everyone without a hint of bittersweet if that's what you're looking for?

Or even something Jade Empire where you can marry the Princess, rule the land, and everyone loves you?

Might be nice as an optimal outcome.

but what I favor is Earn Your Happy Ending.  Like what DAO provided.   

^This. I would prefer that one group's preference doesn't rule out another's. If all parties are pleased, that's good. Various endings that make most of us happy works for me. You want your bad ending, you get it. You want your good ending, you get it. What you put into the game affects your end results.

Unfortunately you aren't listening to us. Some off us who is against the Golden endning feels that its very existance invalidates the other endings.

So there is no compromise between our camps.

Bioware is just going to have to write the story they want.

[esper]

PurebredCorn wrote...

The ending doesn't have to be perfectly happy, an option where it's mostly happy is a good thing. Not akk options have to be mostly happy either.

Mmm... I wouldn't be oppossed to an ending that was Sweetbitter as oppossed to bittersweet.In many way I felt that was how da2 ended for my canon Hawke:

Hawke spent the whole act three feelign constrained by the champion title, she wanted to free the city from Meridith, she wanted to help her people, the mages. In a way everything ended perfect for her, she saved most of the circle and she was finally free of the moral obligations that had forced her to stay her hand in a matter meaning a lot to her, and everyone she personally cared came out of the first fight alive.

I can, however, see the bitter she can't. That she has sacrificed a lot of her humanity, lost a loyal friend, atagonized another and will lead a life that in all likeliness is going to lead ´to an early and violent end.

It was an interesting end, long time since a game made me feel that way.

[Dabrikishaw]

Kileyan wrote...

Yes I would like a unicorns, butterflies, candy and lollipops ending where Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny rain down accolades upon our heroes.

Serious, yes I want a good ending. I don't care much for these angst driven dark dark dreary bleak dark games where in the end it is artful because nothing you did mattered much at all.

I'd like to win, save the princess, live in a house made of skittles and raise some babies who ride unicorns instead of bigwheels.

I don't really enjoy every game I play being dark, bleak, and real. I like those themes in the middle of the game, but in the end, I'm not a big fan of "no matter what you do bad stuff happens and everyone dies".

Those aren't even good literary elements, they are just introducing bleak themes to make it seem more mature.

Yes give me a bad ending if that is your story, don't give me 4 equally bad endings, just because your lead dev or writer is upset that not many people chose the bad ending over the good endings.

I'm just not feeling this theme of....we can't give good endings because too many people will choose them style of game writing.

[eroeru]

More Lollipops less sunshine please.

[Iakus]

esper wrote...

lyriumaddict104 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

And rainbows?

Something like Knights of the Old Republic where you're the big damn hero who's saved everyone without a hint of bittersweet if that's what you're looking for?

Or even something Jade Empire where you can marry the Princess, rule the land, and everyone loves you?

Might be nice as an optimal outcome.

but what I favor is Earn Your Happy Ending.  Like what DAO provided.   

^This. I would prefer that one group's preference doesn't rule out another's. If all parties are pleased, that's good. Various endings that make most of us happy works for me. You want your bad ending, you get it. You want your good ending, you get it. What you put into the game affects your end results.

Unfortunately you aren't listening to us. Some off us who is against the Golden endning feels that its very existance invalidates the other endings.

So there is no compromise between our camps.

Bioware is just going to have to write the story they want.

Well if you're saying "no happy endings at all" I'm going to oppose that. I  do not believe that one person's happy ending invalidates another's bittersweet or tragic ending.  Or if it does, then they didn't really want said bittersweet or tragic endings and simply don't want to admit it.  

It's all about preferences.  And I personally don't play games to feel sad.

[Dean_the_Young]

In Exile wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The second comes from the traditional bias Bioware tends to have towards nice guys doing just as well or better than the not-nice guys.

I'm not sure where the idea that the opposite is somehow true comes from.

Not sure what you mean by the opposite in this context.

this creates an imbalance between the incentives to play anything less than a morally idealistic protagonist: when having a more cyncial morality concerned with greater-good and risk-mitigation is unnecessary because those risks never carry out, what's the point of not playing the Idealist?

Bioware doesn't usually do greater good options. By that, I mean that most options in Bioware games that people portray as realistic aren't for the greater good - there's usually just the idiotic choice and the good choice.

It would depend on what choices we're talking about in particular, here. I'd say some delimmas that would be greater good options get subverted into good-idiot choices: the more benign and sympathetic and white-knighted the Geth are, the less compelling any argument of security from them becomes... and that particular DLC wasn't exactly a subtle presentation of a moral choice either.

[esper]

iakus wrote...

esper wrote...

lyriumaddict104 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

And rainbows?

Something like Knights of the Old Republic where you're the big damn hero who's saved everyone without a hint of bittersweet if that's what you're looking for?

Or even something Jade Empire where you can marry the Princess, rule the land, and everyone loves you?

Might be nice as an optimal outcome.

but what I favor is Earn Your Happy Ending.  Like what DAO provided.   

^This. I would prefer that one group's preference doesn't rule out another's. If all parties are pleased, that's good. Various endings that make most of us happy works for me. You want your bad ending, you get it. You want your good ending, you get it. What you put into the game affects your end results.

Unfortunately you aren't listening to us. Some off us who is against the Golden endning feels that its very existance invalidates the other endings.

So there is no compromise between our camps.

Bioware is just going to have to write the story they want.

Well if you're saying "no happy endings at all" I'm going to oppose that. I  do not believe that one person's happy ending invalidates another's bittersweet or tragic ending.  Or if it does, then they didn't really want said bittersweet or tragic endings and simply don't want to admit it.  

It's all about preferences.  And I personally don't play games to feel sad.

Which is why there can be no compromise.

At least if the choice is between, Golden ending and sad ending. I play games to enjoy a narratives. Golden endingen, makes the sad ending pointless as I know I can redo them with a load.

I for my part are perfectly fine whic neither a 100 % happy nor sad. As said before I want an ending without a big final ending choice, and ending that feels organic with the rest of the narratives so I feel that the losses and gains I achieved througout the whole off the narrative counts as part of the ending.

Sadly, biowares big final choice have a tendency to disrupt that. If just Morrigan didn't offer the dark ritual, sigh...

[Dean_the_Young]

In Exile wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
People with utilitarian ethics don't choose to sacrifice a few to safeguard the many because they don't value the few, or because we enjoy sacrifice: we do it because we believe it will be for the best.

So what you're saying is that you're frustrated that Bioware isn't doing enough to validate your own personal ethics?

Nien. I'm frustrated that Bioware claims my ethically preferred morality is equally valid, and then goes of to primarily only validate one morality path in particular. I dislike the imbalance of the morality system: in my view, a morality system should be crafted to be balanced and promote critical thinking and careful thought of consequences. When the system is unbalanced to a 'right' and 'wrong', it looses it's appeal and depth.

Speaking design-wise, ME was a choose your flavour type of morality. It wasn't about getting a better outcome through some moral system: it was about choosing how humanity and the world developed. If people wanted the federation, they could have that. If they wanted a hard as nails pragmatic reality, they could have that, and both were valid, in that both led to winning the game.

But apparently for some people, their choice is irrelevant unless the other choice is explicitly shown to be wrong.

Perhaps you could introduce me to some people. As the rest of what I wrote made a point of mentioning, I don't seek that.

[Sidney]

Well written happy endings are ok and well written grey endings are ok. The key is to be well written. The problem with the "dark" ME3 endings wasn't the darkness but the fact that to get to them you had to listen to some of the most insane babble from the Star Child I've ever heard.

[Todd23]

Yes.

[Iakus]

esper wrote...

Which is why there can be no compromise.

At least if the choice is between, Golden ending and sad ending. I play games to enjoy a narratives. Golden endingen, makes the sad ending pointless as I know I can redo them with a load.

I for my part are perfectly fine whic neither a 100 % happy nor sad. As said before I want an ending without a big final ending choice, and ending that feels organic with the rest of the narratives so I feel that the losses and gains I achieved througout the whole off the narrative counts as part of the ending.

Sadly, biowares big final choice have a tendency to disrupt that. If just Morrigan didn't offer the dark ritual, sigh...

As long as differnt endings of any kind are possible, you can always redo them.  Happy or sad.

Besides which, definitions of a "golden" ending can vary widely in any case.  Some think the DR in DAO is a "get out of jail free" card.  While others (especially those who romance Alistair) absolutely hate it.  

I say give us a lot of variables at the end so there are numerous outcomes, particularly with the fate of the protagonist.  Let the players sort out what they like.  Let happy outcomes be possible, but they have to be worked for.

Modifié par iakus, 15 janvier 2013 - 11:36 .

[Steppenwolf]

Games that boast important choices and branching storylines should have wildly divergent endings. Your choices should determine what ending you get. I don't want a happy ending, a sad ending, a bittersweet ending, a grimdark ending, I want an ending that's the direct result of the choices I made throughout the story.