230 réponses à ce sujet

[nuh1]

progste2 wrote...

nuh1 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

nuh1 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

score is a indication of performance in the game but it doesnt tell the whole picture

nuff said

please, tell the whole picture of a 20k Geth infiltrator

It's a GI's job to score high with damage.
Volus engineer with 10k less than the 3rd player in a Gold match. He shield boosted when everyone needed shields, recon debuffed large groups/bosses, and proxy debuffed / shot everything he saw.
There is your picture. Score mongers can stick to their high damage kits 24/7, the masses would like to have fun while still contributing to the fight in a helpful way with kits they like.

here is your typical volus

Yes, because a bad player is the best candidate for representing a kit. /logic

no, because is rare to find a good player with a volus
if someone with a volus is good he can make a decent score (40k+) and still help his teammates, if he doesn't make any damage to the enemies he's actually making the game longer and leaving more work to the rest of the team
shield boosting ISN'T the only thing a volus should do

I never said shield boost spamming was how a volus should be played. I've played with many people who have come in last by less than 10k points who shield boosted when necessary, recon debuffed, and shot/proxy everything. Does it mean they are bad because he was last in points? no, it means he boosted everyone elses points while still keeping up.

[Original Twigman]

Kushiel42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

I have never, ever, seen PUGs or friends attempt to make this "co-op" based game actually cooperative.

"Never" is obvious hyperbole, even in reference to PUGs. "Rarely," I'd believe.

Mostly, though, it sounds like you need more teamwork-oriented friends.

lol

[GallowsPole]

Ryumanjisen wrote...

I pretty much agree with the OP.

This is a game about killing people. The more people you kill, the more points you get; ergo a lot of points means you've killed a lot of people.

Of course, there are some factors to be considered (some kits are meant to be more effective at getting points than other) but f you outscore someone by 90k points you've been a better player than him.

It's not "being elitist", it's the plain truth.

If you're scoring 90k+ over other players without rockets or nuking spawns, that doesn't say how great you are, but how unbalanced the rest of the team is.

[ISHYGDDT]

I  mostly agree, although score tallies certain things incorrectly.  I love that you included 'strategies' 1 and 2 in your OP because that's spot on, the truth is that no amount of 'teamwork' will ever solve the issue of the anti-synergy of sticking together i.e.

1. People who are too close to each other focus on the same targets most of which die so quickly that focusing fire is pointless and reduces efficiency:  they should be shooting different targets.

2. Sticking too close together leads to all enemies focusing attacks on all players all the time, which means that all players have to avoid being exposed to fire all the time, which leads to them killing everything slower, and taking more damage from things like atlas rockets and banshee warp balls.

3.  Enemies will spawn on the other side of the map from you, and you either need to wait for them to come to you (camping) or you need to run to them (sticking together.)

The only advantage of sticking together is the ease of revives, and even that goes to hell in a handbasket once more than one person needs a revive.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 15 janvier 2013 - 07:48 .

[ValorOfArms777]

..Score at a certain peak can't show the skill grade of a player...

cause a skillful player could milk out a objective wave for a good period of time in example etc.

a skillful player could in terms could be the one that holds down best he can savign his stuff for the moments it's needed

there are some points I do agree points = skill but again

points diverge into these sections

Bonus for kill/Total of damage/Total of unit damage assist

there is also limits per unit for those "challenges" so in example the bonus points you get for the "kill" don't even add to the weapon points but the score tally, to get the max milking of points you need to make the kill, for a others they just need to get enough decent damage into them and they get max assist bonus, pretty simple in some cases

but in equation score also is the determining factor of the EXP you earn...meaning all scores together + math stuffs = EXP

in derivative...score isn't persay a good measure of skill cause it's so "fluxy"

honesty the higher score just means the kill the most...and got the kill bonuses and the bonus points are tracked to their point till...it's pretty interesting when you can anylize it further...

but yes...score isn't really a grand way to tell skill persay it's not "wrong" but at a point if you can earn a modest 60-90k on gold.. you'll be fine (usually) I met soem pretty bad players out there... that score high amounts but still coudn't hold a candle worth of survival skill

..man if I had just a tad bit more focused midn set...I would be able to score the 120k-180k region of score but again I'm stingy...I don't care about it asmuch and atm... I rather have good runs to earn credits to max out weapons and get more equipment than be a extreme and show off some "skill" for a game

I jsut wanna have fun not burn myself out I mean look I don't even have BotB banner ..because I get SO flippin tired of being locked into something...example Promoting/playing a char for 200 waves etc. and hoenstly I pulled out a ton of chars I havn't touched in awhile and played with em but for too long...I know what I like..I do know how to play fairly well mind you..but can't I have room to goof off? isntead of worrying about skill levels?

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 15 janvier 2013 - 07:51 .

[Original Twigman]

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

Aww Original Stikman ..still thinks this huh, not first time I heard this from him or others...it's not as black and white as he takes it...

you can throw it in my face how much you so called think you're more "skilled" than everything just cause of a score... fine do it, but you are pretty blind to your own "so called skill" I'll giv eyou props for being skullfull but just caus eyou score 20-50k more points don't make you the dominate skill....theres other playstyles other than yours and not all of them result in the most score

what a illogical thought just like N7 rank means skill or CP stacking up means skill.. it's fruitless skill is only measured in trial and error and understanding...

I hold back, cause I don't care about score ..I just wanna have fun plsu tryign too hard on a game is stupid...called a game for a reason <_<

You have heard this from me? when?

Psh, you haven't proved that this isn't the case otherwise. The game isn't played like a co-op except by a select few. If you can't score high, you aren't that great.

[Alsonia]

Whip; meet wall. No matter how hard you try, it will never budge.

[Original Twigman]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

I  mostly agree, although score tallies certain things incorrectly.  I love that you included 'strategies' 1 and 2 in your OP because that's spot on, the truth is that no amount of 'teamwork' will ever solve the issue of the anti-synergy of sticking together i.e.

1. People who are too close to each other focus on the same targets most of which die so quickly that focusing fire is pointless and reduces efficiency:  they should be shooting different targets.

2. Sticking too close together leads to all enemies focusing attacks on all players all the time, which means that all players have to avoid being exposed to fire all the time, which leads to them killing everything slower, and taking more damage from things like atlas rockets and banshee warp balls.

3.  Enemies will spawn on the other side of the map from you, and you either need to wait for them to come to you (camping) or you need to run to them (sticking together.)

The only advantage of sticking together is the ease of revives, and even that goes to hell in a handbasket once more than one person needs a revive.

Chain revives are the best. I love these "strategies"

The best players have the best individual strategies, that is why they score more than others. Period.

Modifié par Original Stikman, 15 janvier 2013 - 07:51 .

[nuh1]

Alsonia wrote...

Whip; meet wall. No matter how hard you try, it will never budge.

QFT

[progste2]

I never said shield boost spamming was how a volus should be played. I've played with many people who have come in last by less than 10k points who shield boosted when necessary, recon debuffed, and shot/proxy everything. Does it mean they are bad because he was last in points? no, it means he boosted everyone elses points while still keeping up.

than we think the same thing but expressed it in different ways, when I say ouscored i don't mean by a little margin, that, that may depend on luck or the strange way points are split sometimes but as long as you score is consistent with the rest of the team, even if you ended up 4th, it's still good, the problem is when there are these huge gaps, and that happens very often playing with unknowns, i'm actually very happy when everyone scores at least 90k

reguards getting in a bad situation to get more points, it's true that doesn't help the team but is usually not rewarded either

[ValorOfArms777]

yet Stik you and I never have never played together, and you prob say I suck..but at least I have enough skill to play what I play and play plat fairly well, if you wanna go and SHOW me how you "play" go ahead..teach me..I'll learn and I'll show you how far I can really go...I'm not saying score is not a way to measure but... it's wobbly inaccurate at times...and in factor you forgot something

the categories of skill, between it all are "survivability" "kill speed" "mechanics knowledge" and "implementation"

can you live long without dying from a cause
can you kill all the things fast
do you know a vast mechanics
..can you implement any of this stuff?

if you proclaim this blanket statement.. go ahead but it's just numerics...and numerics provided by Bioware nonetheless (no insults persay pointed) if anything  a secondary "point system" would be needed with FLAT values.. of per kill/assists example 10 for husks 1 for assisting a husk 50 for prime 5 for assisting with it.. it's nearly the same but not as "wobbly" as you only get 1% average for assisting and not the "kill" somethign like that I figure be more accurate and you must deal a X amount of damage to even consider it "assisting"... have fun with that then

but no the score system seems to wobbly to measure at all

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 15 janvier 2013 - 08:01 .

[vonSlash]

Titus Thongger wrote...

score is a indication of performance in the game but it doesnt tell the whole picture

nuff said

This is probably the most accurate post about the score/skill relationship I've ever seen.



Score shows a rough outline of skill, but other factors, such as playstyle, number of deaths, loadout quality, and luck, are too important to ignore.

For example, I am a slightly-better-than-average player, yet I can frequently outscore players who are far more technically skilled than myself because my playstyle revolves around relentlessly attacking the enemy, which yields me more kills and assists than someone playing less aggressively, even if their aim, reflexes, situational awareness, strategic skills, and survival ability surpasses mine.

[capitao_ratao29]

Biotic spamers
Tech spamers
Granade spamer
Shield spamer
Camper spamer
Cerberus Harrier spamer

This is a game of spamers, I love this game LOL xD

[jaylovesash]

im not going to repost the entire OPs statement but i couldnt disagree more, anyone can get to the top of the leaderboard, heck i often find myself at the top and im far from the best player.

quite frankly your post comes across as quite offensive and abit of a rant, i find nothing constructive in any sentence youve posted.

my personal opinion (and its prob just mine) is that it isnt a player that has the highest score that gets the mission completed, its the players who can solo whole waves when everyone else is down. anyone can equipt 3 extra missiles and hit spawn spots, that doesnt show skill or teamwork. the same goal is met, you either win or lose and the only thing youve achieved is work on your mastery banners with enemy kills. but if people wanna waste their rockets then thats fine, its upto them,

[xtorma]

Original Stikman wrote...

Titus Thongger wrote...

score is a indication of performance in the game but it doesnt tell the whole picture

nuff said

please, tell the whole picture of a 20k Geth infiltrator

there is no such thing.

[LemurFromTheId]

This is what matters:

[Dunabar]

I'm still waiting on the part where I should care that my score is higher or lower than anyone else on the team.

[ValorOfArms777]

My aim.. honestly is off... I need to work on it I admit.. I only hit roughly 70-60% of the time with my shots precision wise..which I admit is my "lack of skill" and my lack of mental coherence but I'm autistic I have limits

Do I happen to nuke the spawns..not really, I never caught on to it fully and due to game changes..never run into it much... though I know it's about knowing each maps spawn points (I know pretty much them all) but controlling them and arriving at them in predictions is harder for me as I don't know the info..if I was explained it and taught in it...I wouldn't have any issue trying it for a spin etc. though I prefer not to spam out missiles I just save em for emergencies like primes locking down players etc.

Do I know all the VI mechanics heck no...I suck at banshees if I was explained in their actions...and such I would gradually learn it "why?" cause I'm willing to learn

the real issue isn't "are you skilless?" but "are you willing to learn and accept?" it's co-op yes... but it's not a co-op of touchy feely I'm playing WoW

[jaylovesash]

Aedolon wrote...

This is what matters:

well said

[ISHYGDDT]

Aedolon wrote...

This is what matters:


*snip*

Personally I would have circled the time in the upper right hand corner.

On my strong characters, I can pretty much snatch victory from the jaws of defeat (on gold) no matter how fail my team is (unless they screw me over by following me around everywhere and focusing all the aggro on my position until I run out of medigel.)  It's just that it will take 35 minutes.

Modifié par ISHYGDDT, 15 janvier 2013 - 08:21 .

[dday3six]

I'm curious why any of it actually matters so much at all.

[nuh1]

Aedolon wrote...

This is what matters:

QFFT

[rnc007]

So I disagree. I play to have fun and win, so in my mind the most important thing is extracting and doing so quickly. If I pug Gold and it's longer than 25 mins (except a couple of maps), generally I'm not having fun and the other players are probably pretty bad (exceptions are made for themed runs like all melee runs, etc.). If I'm pugging gold and we're done in 20 mins, it was a pretty good team and I'm generally happy. I enjoy the challenge of playing with non-standard classes / builds, but don't mind others playing crutch classes - the truth is I did the first time I played gold as well (and did badly with them!).

There are several important factors that I will always use to kick someone - did you die all the time, did you never gel, did you bleed out in an objective wave instead of gelling, did you get yourself killed in an awkward spot, not revive then have the team die trying to chain revive you in a good-natured but ill-advised manner (sense a pattern here?). In my mind these are all forms of leaching (or you are just not ready for gold) and I will generally kick for this.

The flip side is if you got a killstreak with a rocket, used a rocket in a tight spot where it was desperately called for, revive courageously but not stupidly, do the difficult device objective, defend teammates when they are doing objectives, etc. I generally will pug with you as long as you are willing and afterwards probably send you a friend request. Honestly that's how I met many of you on this board (through pugs).

The truth is I remember many folks carrying my sorry self through gold when I first started playing and now I enjoy doing the same. As long as the team is willing to make an effort I am having fun. Notice the one thing I didn't mention is score. If the in-game behavior is kill-whoring outside the hack circle, even if that person had the top score, I will vote to kick. Honestly score is irrelevant to what I care about.

[ValorOfArms777]

I feel odd to say this but stik is about 3/4 right though...most high score players are high act implementer most of all, meaning they exact EVERYTHING they know into a match..mostly without trying becoming "second nature" meaning they get the greater kill bonus on average a fast "run" will equate about 110k score per player if all "players equated evenly" per kill ration but a uneven score in the 160k range of 2 players in a normal run (no milking) means 2 players are more dominated than the others granting them greater kill ratio

I know my markign posts up exactly what is he is saying but the last 1/4 is the circumstances..deaths/falls/ inability to make the kill blows count up (this results in kill stealing and score hoggers whom inevitably get reckless in their situation...and still lose score in the outcome...meaning there are virtues past the score but about 3/4 fo the score shows kill "spread"

But I hate to "bow" to ego either esspecially a post on BSN like thisit sparks my nervs cause of many factors that really shoudn't matter <_<, but if anything I guess again I could..simmer down and "play" the game withotu joking about and try, but then I'll get bored...

Modifié par ValorOfArms777, 15 janvier 2013 - 08:24 .