I will leave vanguards out of the discussion, because the inclusion of biotic charge in a kit fundamentally changes the character's playstyle. Doesn't matter what secondary powers you have, unless you say spec a stasis sniping asariguard or similar unconventional build, you will be charging around in the face of your enemies most of the time. So you could create a separate discussion for the similarity of vanguard playstyles as well.
As for sentinels, apart from the human and valkyrie they only have 1 biotic power per kit so not really relevant to the discussion.
Anyway, let me start off by stating (assuming weapon damage is a staple of every class):
EDIT: I think this is more accurate:
The effectiveness of many biotic powers on higher difficulties largely revolves around their ability to prime and detonate biotic explosions.
There are very few exceptions to this which I will list some of:
- stasis
- DoT stacking (AJA reave and Huntress dark channel)
- Direct damage (Ex-Cerberus smash)
It doesn't matter what the powers are - be it warp and throw, reave and clusters, singularity and lash, AF and throw, and so on... any fancy crowd controlling effects (not including the BE knockdown and stagger) are totally secondary to the BE damage.
It doesn't matter that:
- shockwave upgraded can lift unprotected targets
- pull, singularity and stasis can disable/suspend them
- throw can send them flying
- lash can do the same
...all of these effects are irrelevant compared to BE priming and detonation.
The other thing to notice about these few listed powers are the fancy ragdolling effects only work on health, apart from stasis and upgraded lash, which again makes those effects even more pointless.
EDIT: for clarity - this is on page 3, taken out of discussion context.
Curunen wrote...
Thanks for the continued replies, lots of interesting discussion.
Yes
the number of enemies on screen can be an issue especially with the
current combat model, and I'm not sure how to remedy that at the moment.
Let me be explicit with some of the character playstyles (the most efficient ones):
Human adept - the very definition of Biotic Explosion; huge and frequent detonations.
Drell
adept - where almost everyone... what's that quaint expression... ah
yes, "circle jerks" about reave and cluster grenades - again,
explosions. Even if you're a hipster using pull, it's still for the
purpose of explosions.
N7 Fury - annihilation field, run around and spam throw. Incredibly monotonous. Dark channel DoT is an afterthought.
Asari
Justicar - ok good reave stacking damage, and the bubble can provide a
significant amount of defence. But, again what do we have - bubble/reave
(or the opposite), pull/reave, pull/bubble, all detonations.
Asari
adept - ok stasis is a good pure cc power, but then you've got the
repetitive warp/throw/throw sequence against anything with armour.
Slasher - more explosions, I don't even need to go into this.
Volus
- ok a bit more of support and crowd control - similar to the asari
with stasis. Biotic orbs could be identical to warp for all I can see - a
ball of blue debuffing stuff. A unique character, but does have a tech
power.
Shaman - warp/shockwave, same as the human. Ok you're
playing more with tankiness, weapon damage and melee here, but the
detonations still apply.
Ex-Cerberus - smash is a damn good power
on its own, with high damage and no need for detonation. Lash likewise
is a good CC power that does not need to be used for detonation. A more
unique character than all the others, HOWEVER, at its core efficiency
there are still biotic explosions - singularity/lash, singularity/smash,
lash/smash, smash/lash.
So you can see the problem? They are
ALL bombers at heart - and for a class with the ability to manipulate
mass this is a complete waste of potential.
What I'd like to see is a spectrum of playstyles, ranging from:
Pure damage - in the form of explosions, DoT, direct damage, mainly with some combination spatial distortion fields.
...
...
Half damage, half crowd control - a balanced kit.
...
...
Pure
crowd control - relying on telekinetic effects, mass raising/lowering
fields, and clever manipulation of the environment and/or enemies.
I
like the idea of more varied explosions too, for the current ME3MP.
Sure a throw detonation might send a target flying with extra force, and
a stasis detonation temporarily applies the affect in a wide radius.
That is good, and I'm glad it is already in the game. But these are such
minor effects, they do not differentiate between different power combos
enough.
Reave detonations should restore health; singularity detonations should implode, etc...
So why is this all a problem? This is a problem because all the kits end up playing in a very similar manner - the only difference being how you prime and detonate. Adepts have turned into a pure biotic bombing class - no different from simply throwing grenades. Now I can appreciate in a game with hit points, that damage output is necessary no matter the class. However you also have access to a weapon, and the means to success does not have to involve the powers in the kit being tailored to pure dps (in the form of explosions).
This is a good point to bring in ME1 biotics and the cooldown system.
ME1 biotics were overpowered, and the individual cooldown made it even worse - when you could chain cast all of your powers, ie barrier, singularity, lift, warp, throw... single handedly disabling the entire facility (albeit with very limited damage options from warp and weapon use), then something is definitely not right; there is no challenge to the game. The global cooldown did improve this with selective use of powers - you'd have to think which power to use in which situation.
What I feel has limited the scope of biotic powers going from ME2 to ME3, is the drastic reduction in cooldown - where individual cooldowns are on the order of a couple of seconds, and you can chain any two powers within a few seconds, rinse and repeat.
Yes I appreciate this has been done for the sake of faster and more fluid gameplay, but the result has limited the scope of powers available - they must be "balanced" (weak) enough to prevent them trivialising the game. Even stasis, one of the stronger powers is back up for use every 4 seconds or so. The introduction of combo detonations now on everything, not just warp has further watered down the variety in powers we could have available.
In past (and recent) discussions it has been suggested for biotics in future games to have a "stamina" bar, which would regenerate and be the fuel for powers. The counterargument that it would make things too similar to another major sci-fi franchise, as well as fantasy games with power bars is irrelevant. It makes complete sense for biotics, fits in with the lore, and I believe would enhance the gameplay.
You could have effective combos - one, two, three powers in a row with unique results. The regeneration of the "stamina" bar should be of the order of 10-20 seconds or so to keep up with fast paced gameplay - you could chain a handful of powers, then have to wait a slightly longer time before chaining them again (or a few seconds before setting of a single power).
Back to the powers themselves, what if there were kits completely geared around crowd control (disabling, etc), and relying on weapons and physics (force) effects for dealing damage?
What if you had a power which created an 8m biotic barrier that deflected bullets, at the expense of 50% of your stamina bar - you could then lockdown a single prime and throw it into oncoming enemies, taking out a few in the process - then duck behind cover using only your weapon while regaining stamina.
Finally this all goes hand in hand with destructible environment - biotic powers would come into a world of their own if you could manipulate the environment in order to succeed. Obviously has been considered and not used for whatever reasons; if technology is up to it for ME4, it would open up a completely new dimension to combat.
Anyway this was just meant as food for thought. I admit I know next to nothing about how these things are implemented - that's not my profession. But I hope it opens up new gameplay possibilities for biotics in future games.
Tl;dr for the lazy people:
BEs are overused - all adepts play the same.
Modifié par Curunen, 16 janvier 2013 - 09:13 .
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Tech powers and tech ammo (which everybody uses) overwrite your 
