92 réponses à ce sujet

[metaempiricist]

Me1mN0t wrote...

Quit complaining about setting off TBs. You can detonate your BE immediately after that. Can you really not wait 1.2 sec to det YOUR primer? This is a Co-op game, as long as things die, who cares.

If you join a squad with a bunch of techs and tech ammo, don't come here and complain. Find another lobby if it's that big of a deal. I find it an advantage to be able to detonate multiple powers, and you're just being selfish if you feel otherwise. Most biotic detonators have low cooldowns. Use them.

False. with the way tech combos work you can use the detonating power to also prime i.e. using incinerate to detonate overload you will get a tech burst and prime for a fire explosion at the same. You CANNOT do this with biotics

[InArts]

I just wish there were more cross-class synergy. Biotics detonate tech explosions, but that's about the extent of the overlap. More combat-biotic power combinations would be awesome.

But then we'd all have to depend on other players more... Oh my god, it's almost like a co-op game or something.

[Sailears]

Aedolon
Yes the asari has its unique points, (mainly down to stasis) and I can see you have built a fun and varied playstyle around the kit. I think I mentioned in a previous post that AA is one character I'm a bit rusty with.

Nope apart from finding the warp throw cycle the most boring thing in the game, I can't argue any of those points.
But it does not change the fact that the current model of biotic powers is only a fraction of what it could be. I can say that staggering is such a common mechanic, I don't like to think of it as unique to biotics, or showcasing what the ability to manipulate mass could actually do.

Have a look at one of my previous posts - perhaps a power effect gradient for mass raising and mass lowering powers, and giving each enemy target/object a "mass value" which would indicate the effectiveness of such a power (like it's duration, force, and so on).

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^Erm, that was directed at ME4 given it is a completely new mechanic suggestion.
I'm sure the entire game, servers, origin and so on will be different by then.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Good joke
oh wait, your serious?
Please, EA will continue being EA.

Ok ok you have a point!

[jezcrow]

When seven of nine adepts get warp/reave/orbs as offensive powers, doesn't the choice come down to leaving an enemy to shoot back, or causing an explosion that will leave the enemy prone (or dead)??

Beyond this, can't the Cerberus adept easily combine lash for bonus explosions while still using Singularity and Smash tactically in the same way? Whereas the Fury's signature power is a primer/detonator that makes explosions central to her style?

Therefore isn't the variation between the adepts in playstyle produced more from their racial abilities than the powers they get?

Finally, with respect to Stasis, against bosses it isn't an option.

[Sailears]

Ok how about this for an awesome mechanic:

Every friend, enemy, target, object has a mass value.

This mass value is not only defined by the type of target, but is also related to its current hit points. In the case of objects (like a crate) the mass value is static.

This mass value can be augmented by armour upgrades (hardening/shock absorbing, etc).

The effect of every biotic power on the target depends on the resultant mass value
- in the case of warp, the DoT would increase with lower mass (as things get torn apart)
- pull would have to overcome a threshold value on the target, and then its duration, strength and so on would scale with increasing rank.

In addition to this you can charge up powers for enhanced effects, and overcome the mass value of a target where using an uncharged power would be less effective (or ineffective). Best analogy is dual casting spells in skyrim.

Instead of the black and white "health" and "armour" bars, they are combined into a single bar. All targets wear some sort of armour, or have armour upgrades that increase the resultant mass value, though it should be much lower for mooks and much higher for say, mechs and bosses or whatever. Only truly unarmoured targets - like an object, or a person in clothing would have no bonuses to mass from armour.

Now here's the key part - as you damage the target and their hit points decrease, their resultant mass value also decreases! Edit: I should say there should be a minimum value for each target with zero health - can't have it decreasing to zero! But similar to how weapon damage varies now between levels I and X, so a range of values from max hit points down to zero hit points.

Imagine the tactics and possibilities.


This does not take into account shields and barriers, which should have a separate mechanic, and I do think shields should block biotics up to a point. Barriered targets should detonate if hit by a spatial distortion field, such as warp.

Modifié par Curunen, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:34 .

[Tyrannus00]

Biotics can't only CC. There's something bad to your health about being thrown across the room into a wall with over a thousand newtons of force.

[The Renegade Fem-Shep]

I never understood what was wrong with ME 1 biotics. Just give em more powers, individual regen on each, and increase time and effectiveness of each. This would work very well if in MP we could actually pick and choose abilities.

That said I power spam and truly DGAF. Reave and other DPS powers or debuffs work great with weapons and I frequently use them. I also love the sound biotic explosions make and their effect should be more pronounced and harder to pull off. Like perhaps make different combos do different things?

[The fool you should have eaten]

So many cool ideas. We can only hope that some of these might make their way into the game in some manner.

[Miniditka77]

Curunen wrote...
Miniditka77
Melee builds as you said are not optimal compared to detonation or weapon damage builds. Krogan is unique because of barrier damage reduction, rage and good melee abilities, which I do spend half the time doing.

I was responding to your statement that "The success of every adept kit largely revolves around the priming and detonation of biotic explosions."  I gave you many different builds that do not.  Krogan melee is one such build, and I would say that running the Krogan Adept as a biotic explosion-based build is not optimal.

Curunen wrote...
Weapon based builds? Come on, all classes can do that, hardly unique to biotics and has nothing really to do with the scope of biotic powers.

As far as the Drell goes - no, not all classes can do that.  The Drell gets better weapon bonuses than any other class in the game except the two original Turians.  And he has insane movement speed.  When I run a Drell Adept, I kill most enemies by a combination of Reave and Harrier.  I only use Clusters on bosses or when there's more than 2 mooks together.  And the Justicar may not be any better with weapons than other classes, but the fact remains that the most effective way to play her (at least on higher levels) is as a weapon-based character.  And there is no better power than Reave for taking advantage of Warp Ammo, which further lends itself to using the DA and AJA as weapons characters.

Curunen wrote...
As for ammo powers - again, any class can do that. A tech explosion build can hardly be called a build on an adept when all you're doing is using tech ammo and relying on the use of biotic powers as pure detonators.
Warp ammo and primed targets, I agree that is powerful, but that's just boosting weapon damage in another form, practically identical to exposing/weakening targets. Not a unique playstyle.

But not any class can do it as well as Adepts.  Throw has the quickest cooldown of any detonating power in the game, and quicker cooldowns = more detonations.  Shockwave can detonate multiple explosions in one cast and has a quicker cooldown than most other detonating powers.  Again - more explosions.  Adepts can do ammo based tech explosions better than any class.  There's a video out there on the internet somewhere of a Fury with a Falcon and Cryo Ammo running around detonating so many Cryo Explosions it would make a Paladin cry with envy.

Curunen wrote...
The volus is more of a sentinel, given shield boost is a tech power. Orbs, apart from the cooldown bonus, again a debuff, practically identical to warp.

But it's also another example of how your original statement was wrong.  As I said, there are only 3 classes that rely primarily on biotic explosions for damage in their optimal builds.  I'd revise that to say that maybe the optimal Batarian build uses at least a decent amount of BE's.  That's far from "every adept kit."

[Sailears]

^Yes my original statement was not accurate and I've revised it as such.

Obviously I wasn't thinking clearly - the intended focus of discussion is on the powers themselves and not the characters of the adept class. Mechanics exist that allow each character to play differently - ammo powers, weapons, passive abilities and fitness.

I won't go back and redo the whole OP now, too much hassle, even though my thoughts on the subject have become clearer/more focused as the discussion has progressed.

[Miniditka77]

metaempiricist wrote...

Me1mN0t wrote...

Quit complaining about setting off TBs. You can detonate your BE immediately after that. Can you really not wait 1.2 sec to det YOUR primer? This is a Co-op game, as long as things die, who cares.

If you join a squad with a bunch of techs and tech ammo, don't come here and complain. Find another lobby if it's that big of a deal. I find it an advantage to be able to detonate multiple powers, and you're just being selfish if you feel otherwise. Most biotic detonators have low cooldowns. Use them.

False. with the way tech combos work you can use the detonating power to also prime i.e. using incinerate to detonate overload you will get a tech burst and prime for a fire explosion at the same. You CANNOT do this with biotics

Warp Bubble can.

[Vilyn117]

Biotic Explosions have ruined biotics.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Make tech powers detonate biotics. Fixed

[Road Wulf]

ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

Make tech powers detonate biotics. Fixed

The only reason why not is because Bioware would balance this by reducing the damage of all explosions.

Because they would chain endlessly.

[Crocodiles]

They could also make certain powers able to detonate BEs/TBs, while the rest could only detonate BEs kinda like how Reave works.

[Road Wulf]

Crocodiles wrote...

They could also make certain powers able to detonate BEs/TBs, while the rest could only detonate BEs kinda like how Reave works.

They have done that for the most part.  TB's are limited to be exploded by biotcis by only those biotics which cause a physical impact.  Throw, Warp, Biotic Slash, Biotic Charge, Nova and so on. 

But if you limit it too much you'd have to nitpick down to what a Sentinel can do.  Because they are the only ones who have both Tech and Biotic active powers.

(not counting the Asari Huntress because Tac Cloak can't cause a TB).

[andrew688k]

I miss how biotics are the boss when the game first lunched...
And now?

[Zero132132]

andrew688k wrote...

I miss how biotics are the boss when the game first lunched...
And now?

Everyone had ****ty weapons. People got better manifests. A single nerf to BEs doesn't explain the disparity.