265 réponses à ce sujet

[arial]

 people here say ther Catalysts logic is either "Stupid" or, Completely wrong".

but in truth, it fits exactly what the Reapers have said since our good old friend Sovereign talked to us on Virmire.

"you can not comprehend our existence".

thus, the Catalyst is fitting exactly what he said.

you can say "no, thats wrong, its dumb", but think about it.

If I walked into my Daughters Kindergarden class, and began to lecture them on why the civil war in Libya happened a few years ago, they would call it "a stupid lesson", because they are not old or smart enough to comprehend my logic.

same with Catalyst.

He has been around millions of years more then any other creature (with the Exception of the Leviathans), thus he has much more experience with the way the universe works.

We may think we are grasping what he is trying to tell us, but in fact we are not. we have not been around long enough for him to be able to accurately describe his purpose.

Just like I would have no way to accurately describe the Libyian Civil war to someone of my daughters age, the Catalyst can not accurately describe his meaning, to a civilization that has been around as short as ours.

[Steelcan]

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

Yeah, there's nothing particularly difficult to comprehend in what it says, hence why it's easy to deduce that most of its assertions are stupid and or don't make any sense. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 16 janvier 2013 - 12:27 .

[cyrslash1974]

Well, there is difference between what Sovereign said in ME1 and what the Cata explained to Shep in ME3.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Wait what?

[Xellith]

We comprehend the catalysts argument.

Its just that Its ridiculously retarded and makes no damn sense when you apply logic to it.

Modifié par Xellith, 16 janvier 2013 - 12:32 .

[arial]

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

once again, we get that interpratation because we are not evolved enough as a species for him to be able to accurately explain his purpose.

like when my Cousin goes shopping for a new Video Card, he thinks he understands what the sales person is saying, even though in reality he does not. he ends up going home with a part that is not compatible, because he does not have enough knowledge in the IT field to understand what the sales person is telling him, even if he thinks he does..

we as a species are not evolved enough to understand what he is actually trying to say, even if we think we do.

[Steelcan]

arial wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

once again, we get that interpratation because we are not evolved enough as a species for him to be able to accurately explain his purpose.

like when my Cousin goes shopping for a new Video Card, he thinks he understands what the sales person is saying, even though in reality he does not. he ends up going home with a part that is not compatible, because he does not have enough knowledge in the IT field to understand what the sales person is telling him, even if he thinks he does..

we as a species are not evolved enough to understand what he is actually trying to say, even if we think we do.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=qI0RoJz7Tno

[CaptainZaysh]

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

You've proven the OP's point by completely misunderstanding the plot.

[GreyLycanTrope]

arial wrote...
once again, we get that interpratation because we are not evolved enough as a species for him to be able to accurately explain his purpose.

like when my Cousin goes shopping for a new Video Card, he thinks he understands what the sales person is saying, even though in reality he does not. he ends up going home with a part that is not compatible, because he does not have enough knowledge in the IT field to understand what the sales person is telling him, even if he thinks he does..

we as a species are not evolved enough to understand what he is actually trying to say, even if we think we do.

You realize his dialogue was written by humans right? Unless your saying bioware's writers have somehow asended to a higher state of thought than the rest of us there is no way in hell what he's saying is actually beyond our comprehension. His purpose wasn't to confuse us it was to provide exposition and a plot twist, that it. He fails because he embodies an argument from authority both the reapers "seriously organics can't handle synthetics, trust me" and whoever wrote that scene "seriously this stroy has always been about the synthetics/oraganic conflict, trust me" despite the audience not being convinced by the story itself.

Saying we can't uderstand a concept something just because we don't have cerification in a field is just wrong. I don't need to be a physicist to understand gravity.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 16 janvier 2013 - 12:51 .

[The Night Mammoth]

arial wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

once again, we get that interpratation because we are not evolved enough as a species for him to be able to accurately explain his purpose.

like when my Cousin goes shopping for a new Video Card, he thinks he understands what the sales person is saying, even though in reality he does not. he ends up going home with a part that is not compatible, because he does not have enough knowledge in the IT field to understand what the sales person is telling him, even if he thinks he does..

we as a species are not evolved enough to understand what he is actually trying to say, even if we think we do.

This always confuses me. If humans aren't smart enough to understand what the Catalyst is saying, how the hell did BioWare write anything it tells us?

[CaptainZaysh]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

This always confuses me. If humans aren't smart enough to understand what the Catalyst is saying, how the hell did BioWare write anything it tells us?

Maybe they only meant some humans.

[GreyLycanTrope]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

This always confuses me. If humans aren't smart enough to understand what the Catalyst is saying, how the hell did BioWare write anything it tells us?

Maybe they only meant some humans.

Wouldn't be beyond our comprhension if that was the case. Beyond our (human/organic) comprehension applies to all of us, so if even a handful of us understood the concept it's clearly not beyond human comprehension.

[davishepard]

The problem is when people try to apply human logic and morals to the Catalyst. He is an AI programmed to solve a problem, with no limits or morals required to do so. A mistake made by the Leviathans when creating it without the needed specifications. He is not dumb, his logic is not flawed. He never said he would harvest Shepard's cycle to stop them from being wiped out for machines, but to stop ALL organic life from being wiped out by machines. And his logic was right.

[CaptainZaysh]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Wouldn't be beyond our comprhension if that was the case. Beyond our (human/organic) comprehension applies to all of us, so if even a handful of us understood the concept it's clearly not beyond human comprehension.

Maybe they only meant the average BSNer.

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 16 janvier 2013 - 01:05 .

[Steelcan]

davishepard wrote...

The problem is when people try to apply human logic and morals to the Catalyst. He is an AI programmed to solve a problem, with no limits or morals required to do so. A mistake made by the Leviathans when creating it without the needed specifications. He is not dumb, his logic is not flawed. He never said he would harvest Shepard's cycle to stop them from being wiped out for machines, but to stop ALL organic life from being wiped out by machines. And his logic was right.

And he is wrong for not realizing that the so called "problem" didnt freakin exist

[davishepard]

Steelcan wrote...

And he is wrong for not realizing that the so called "problem" didnt freakin exist

It freaking exist.

[Steelcan]

davishepard wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

And he is wrong for not realizing that the so called "problem" didnt freakin exist

It freaking exist.

That notion was disproven the second the quarians turned the geth into a smoldering wreck

[GreyLycanTrope]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Wouldn't be beyond our comprhension if that was the case. Beyond our (human/organic) comprehension applies to all of us, so if even a handful of us understood the concept it's clearly not beyond human comprehension.

Maybe they only meant the average BSNer.

<_< Still wouldn't apply

[Siegdrifa]

Sion1138 wrote...

Beyond comprehension means just that, you can not comprehend it. The way the Sovereign Reaper put it, their very existence is beyond your comprehension which is completely understandable as they are a billion years ahead.

And yet, in the end, everything turns out to be quite within our grasp to understand and therein lies the problem.

That and it's stupid.

I totaly agree with the bolded part.

Reapers most important impact on the player were the first contact with sovereign in ME1.
And from his words, the reapers appeared godlike.

He said :
-"we have no begining and we have no end"
-"you exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it"
Those 2 lines are very important because they are the ones that show the scall of how dangerous and superior they are.
It's a straight parallel to
-"I'm the alpha and omega, the first and the last".

The catalyst  destroy all that, yes the reapers have a begining, no they are not "each a nation, independant", they obey to the catalyst etc.

Just a smal point on catalyst logic ... His goal is to prevent organics to creat synthetics that will kill them in the end... knowing that reapers are eternal (what sovereign said in ME1 again), building mass relays for organics use make no sens; It's common knowledge that when a culture meet another culture, it favor their evolution more quicly; meaning, because of mass relays, lot of races make their technologie evolve a lot faster than if they were isolated in their system, speeding up the process to potentialy creat synthtics and more advanced synthetics, wich means they add to whipe organics civilisation on a shorter periode... thanks....

[CaptainZaysh]

Steelcan wrote...

That notion was disproven the second the quarians turned the geth into a smoldering wreck

That's one of the most spectacularly unscientific things I've ever read.

[MegaSovereign]

"Beyond your comprehension" is a cop out. Especially when the people writing it are just as human as we are.