Meltemph wrote...
But he cant prove he is right either, until synthetics destroy all organics.
. Could be a side affect if their indoctrination.Enhanced wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
There is no evidence to back up his claims, and I count two pieces of evidence against him.
one is a Quarian possibility of victory on Rannoch. The other is Javik's "Metacon War". He says that organics had turned the tide and were winning, then the reapers showed up.
Leviathans?
Greylycantrope wrote...
And the Geth can still get killed over Rannoch regardless.Wayning_Star wrote...
the catalyst vs leviathan..
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
you realize how many times thr British Empire was at war with the French? sure they would make peace, and a few dozen years later they are at war againEpicBoot2daFace wrote...
The reaper on Rannoch pointed to the geth/quarian conflict as proof that synthetics and organics will always be at war. Two minutes later they were at peace with each other. The reapers are clearly wrong and by definition, so is the catalyst since it's the one directing the reapers.CaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
CaptainZaysh wrote...
Meltemph wrote...
But he cant prove he is right either, until synthetics destroy all organics.
At which point it's too late, of course, which is why the Leviathans attempted to pre-empt the threat based on risk modelling rather than waiting until after the apocalypse.
Sorry, did I say risk modelling? I forgot I was on the BSN. I meant "stupid, circular logic."
Meltemph wrote...
The implications of a tech singularity being describable as violent...well is just silly posturing, since the event itself is an unknown.
That's all supposition. There is no evidence to support the idea that synthetics and organics cannot coexist. All evidence to the contrary, infact.CaptainZaysh wrote...
EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Where is the evidence to support that synthetics are going to kill all organics without the reaper's intervention?
Here
CaptainZaysh wrote...
EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
Where is the evidence to support that synthetics are going to kill all organics without the reaper's intervention?
Here
Steelcan wrote...
Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire races
War between Britain and France looks very unlikely these days though. The Catalyst's logic would say that the British Empire would continue to expand, fight everyone, and eventually take over the entire world and destroy all other cultures for good and therefore as soon as anyone gets vaguely organised they should be killed to ensure that they don't build an empire that'll destroy all cultures.arial wrote...
you realize how many times thr British Empire was at war with the French? sure they would make peace, and a few dozen years later they are at war again
That's not the point I was trying to make. But if you want to go there, I could just say that the British and French are at peace today. See? It doesn't matter in this discussion.arial wrote...
you realize how many times thr British Empire was at war with the French? sure they would make peace, and a few dozen years later they are at war againEpicBoot2daFace wrote...
The reaper on Rannoch pointed to the geth/quarian conflict as proof that synthetics and organics will always be at war. Two minutes later they were at peace with each other. The reapers are clearly wrong and by definition, so is the catalyst since it's the one directing the reapers.CaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
and then a feqw years down the line a new synthetic race will be developed, possibly as chesp labour.Steelcan wrote...
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
Steelcan wrote...
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
CaptainZaysh wrote...
Meltemph wrote...
The implications of a tech singularity being describable as violent...well is just silly posturing, since the event itself is an unknown.
The singularity is the point we stop being able to control or understand the outcome.
If you assign a probability of greater than 0% that it will end badly for us, it is not "silly posturing" to seek to prevent it. (Since if it turns out badly we will not be able to stop it.) We as a species do not want to give control of our future to an intelligence we can neither understand nor influence.
Modifié par Meltemph, 16 janvier 2013 - 02:25 .
And by that logic inventing anything at all should be a big no-no as it's setting us off on that path. If you believe what you say you shouldn't be discussing this here but be out in the world trying to do something to prevent it, because if you're right then we're already on the way there. And have been since things like fire and the wheel were invented.CaptainZaysh wrote...
Meltemph wrote...
The implications of a tech singularity being describable as violent...well is just silly posturing, since the event itself is an unknown.
The singularity is the point we stop being able to control or understand the outcome.
If you assign a probability of greater than 0% that it will end badly for us, it is not "silly posturing" to seek to prevent it. (Since if it turns out badly we will not be able to stop it.) We as a species do not want to give control of our future to an intelligence we can neither understand nor influence.
. Speculation, no proofarial wrote...
and then a feqw years down the line a new synthetic race will be developed, possibly as chesp labour.Steelcan wrote...
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
I hope so. Otherwise, implications... unpleasant.DeathScepter wrote...
I do think that CaptainZayish is indoctrinated.
Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 janvier 2013 - 02:28 .
Steelcan wrote...
. Speculation, no proofarial wrote...
and then a feqw years down the line a new synthetic race will be developed, possibly as chesp labour.Steelcan wrote...
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
That's all supposition. There is no evidence to support the idea that synthetics and organics cannot coexist. All evidence to the contrary, infact.
The Night Mammoth wrote...
There's no evidence in that thread, just one hypothesis after another, that tries to obscure the fact that there isn't any by trying to prove the Catalyst right using its own words in the most round-about way possible, which is a fallacy in and of itself, even going as far as to use things not even present in the Mass Effect universe, and completely ignoring the important points like why the conclusion results in the solution, or why the solution is the Reapers.
So what if they do reappear? There's a non-zero risk of anything at all going bad, by your logic no-one should ever do anything whatsoever. You offer no evidence that they will ever pose a credible threat, simply that it's a non-zero probability, no matter how small. The same is true for just about everything else in the universe though so why bother putting into place a very destructive scheme to stop this possibility and not the one that the pyjaks will eventually evolve into a destructive force that'll decide to exterminate absolutely everything that isn't them so that they can live their perfect existence as the only form of life (having developed the technology to synthesise all food they need).CaptainZaysh wrote...
And now the Reapers are gone there is nothing to stop scientific progress advancing in the field of AI. Do you think laws will stop ideas? How long could you keep a galaxy full of scientists from working out how to split the atom? A decade? A century?
Synthetics will arise again. You are not seeing the big picture.
He's the one making the claim. The burden of proof is on him to provide.Wayning_Star wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
. Speculation, no proofarial wrote...
and then a feqw years down the line a new synthetic race will be developed, possibly as chesp labour.Steelcan wrote...
. Well once the geth are gone only EDI is left, and I doubt she can exterminate entire racesCaptainZaysh wrote...
Steelcan wrote...
Well he doesn't say that now does he. He only says ALL organics WILL be destroyed, and he's wrong about that.
It's not wrong, since it doesn't specify a time frame. You can only be sure it was wrong when all organics are destroyed by something non-synthetic.
we're all considering 'possibilities, so the idea of those do not need exact proof so much as the theory beholden to the truth of it. Denial of it isn't proof either, in other words.
Meltemph wrote...
The singlularity is nothing but posturing(or atleast the predictions that come from it). The whole arguement of "if there is more then 0% given enought time" is silly postruing with no evidence to support it, other then hyperbolic imaginations of those who go beyond their own understanding.
Reorte wrote...
So what if they do reappear? There's a non-zero risk of anything at all going bad, by your logic no-one should ever do anything whatsoever. You offer no evidence that they will ever pose a credible threat, simply that it's a non-zero probability, no matter how small. The same is true for just about everything else in the universe though so why bother putting into place a very destructive scheme to stop this possibility and not the one that the pyjaks will eventually evolve into a destructive force that'll decide to exterminate absolutely everything that isn't them so that they can live their perfect existence as the only form of life (having developed the technology to synthesise all food they need).CaptainZaysh wrote...
And now the Reapers are gone there is nothing to stop scientific progress advancing in the field of AI. Do you think laws will stop ideas? How long could you keep a galaxy full of scientists from working out how to split the atom? A decade? A century?
Synthetics will arise again. You are not seeing the big picture.
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