265 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Yo dawg, then tell me, what is it that lots of people don´t understand?

See the post directly beneath yours for the answer.

Come on, pointing again at an example for this "lack of understanding" is an excuse, not an answer.

And here I thought there was something behind the talk.

[DeathScepter]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Yo dawg, then tell me, what is it that lots of people don´t understand?

See the post directly beneath yours for the answer.

that is reason why indoctrination works.   Catalyst give an idea, then the indoctrinated minds twists and molds that idea to make it their own ideas. Making the Catalyst more  logically than it seems. Catalyst has an unique form of Troll logic.

That is why people can indoctrinate themselves in believe in Reaper's logic.  Indoctrination can break the 4th wall. It is the very nature of ideas.

[Meltemph]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Or just ignore the incrdibly trite, and overly simplistic viewpoint of science, that is the tech singularity.  The theory itself is just useless,

Meltemph, when debunking a theory it's good form to actually advance a counter argument rather than just asserting that the theory is "useless".

A coutner arguement? To what? Why this thoery isnt just random proselytizing, born from a fear of science and technology? The theory IS useless and baseless(and has been deconstructed COUNTLESS times), the only exmaple that has been given is "more then 0% chance of happening".  Hey, if you want to perpetuate the idea of a fear of science and technology, more power to you, but the idea that I need to create a "counter arguement" for an improvable/irrefutable claim... well, why would I need to?

There is no "debunking" of this theory, because it is near the equivalent of trying to prove there is a God or disproving it.

Unless you are living off the wiki for the tech singularity, then you shouldnt need me to point out, with bullet points, why a tech singularity is essetnially fear mongering.  

Modifié par Meltemph, 16 janvier 2013 - 03:26 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Kroitz wrote...
Come on, pointing again at an example for this "lack of understanding" is an excuse, not an answer.

And here I thought there was something behind the talk.

I feel like I've heard this arguement before.

[Eterna]

Steelcan wrote...

Except for the part where he tells us in very plain language. The Reapers are here to kill you so you don't make synthetics that kill you.

It isn't confusing or anything, it's just plain flat out stupid.

No he says he kills you so that you don't make synthetics  that kill all organic life. Pro tip: Humans, Asari, Krogan, etc, don't encompass all organic life. 

You paraphased him to be saying "I kill you so that you won't create Synthetic life that will kill humans" which isn't the case. You literally have not comprehended what it is saying. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 16 janvier 2013 - 03:30 .

[dreamgazer]

DeathScepter wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Yo dawg, then tell me, what is it that lots of people don´t understand?

See the post directly beneath yours for the answer.

that is reason why indoctrination works.   Catalyst give an idea, then the indoctrinated minds twists and molds that idea to make it their own ideas. Making the Catalyst more  logically than it seems. Catalyst has an unique form of Troll logic.

That is why people can indoctrinate themselves in believe in Reaper's logic.  Indoctrination can break the 4th wall. It is the very nature of ideas.

Comprehending the Reapers' design doesn't equate to siding with the Reapers' agenda. 

[CaptainZaysh]

Kroitz wrote...

Come on, pointing again at an example for this "lack of understanding" is an excuse, not an answer.

And here I thought there was something behind the talk.

I'm sorry, Kroitz, I don't understand what you're asking.  You asked what many people on the BSN don't understand – I pointed you to a guy who thinks the Reaper plan is "I'm going to kill you so you don't kill yourself later".  

That's what I'm talking about.  Do you want to argue that I'm not the only person on BSN who does understand it?  Because that's not at all what I said.

[Xellith]

Wayning_Star wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

"We build synthetics to kill you now so synthetics you build don't kill you later."

It's so ****ing stupid and anyone who defends this nonsense is probably not capable of critical thinking.

It is nonsense, but it's your nonsense.  That is not the plot.

This is the plot:

"We build synthetics to kill you now so synthetics you build don't kill everyone later."

Do you see the difference?

Where is the evidence to support that synthetics are going to kill all organics without the reaper's intervention?

the catalyst vs leviathan..

They harvest advanced civilisations.  Leaving the younger ones alone.  (not including those of lesser races like Harvesters that are turned into reapers during the cycles for whatever reason..)  Anyways.. That is not "all organics".  At least not all at once.

[CaptainZaysh]

Meltemph wrote...

A coutner arguement? To what? Why this thoery isnt just random proselytizing, born from a fear of science and technology? The theory IS useless and baseless(and has been deconstructed COUNTLESS times), the only exmaple that has been given is "more then 0% chance of happening".  Hey, if you want to perpetuate the idea of a fear of science and technology, more power to you, but the idea that I need to create a "counter arguement" for an improvable/irrefutable claim... well, why would I need to?

There is no "debunking" of this theory, because it is near the equivalent of trying to prove there is a God or disproving it.

Unless you are living off the wiki for the tech singularity, then you shouldnt need me to point out, with bullet points, why a tech singularity is essetnially fear mongering.  

Well, that's certainly convinced me.  I wasn't really sure that "The theory IS useless and baseless" until you typed IS in capital letters, and explained that you don't need to offer a counter argument.

[Wayning_Star]

DeathScepter wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Yo dawg, then tell me, what is it that lots of people don´t understand?

See the post directly beneath yours for the answer.

that is reason why indoctrination works.   Catalyst give an idea, then the indoctrinated minds twists and molds that idea to make it their own ideas. Making the Catalyst more  logically than it seems. Catalyst has an unique form of Troll logic.

That is why people can indoctrinate themselves in believe in Reaper's logic.  Indoctrination can break the 4th wall. It is the very nature of ideas.

I've of the opinion that the catalyst doesn't mess with indoctrination, it uses the reapers for that. It's primary function overrides lowering it's self to that level of communication.

The fourth wall of an eight fold fence? I'd guess that the futuristic catalyst program would think past that and then some.

just say'n

we have no proof that the catalyst actually indoctrinated victims/thralls. We do however have ample evidence of the reaper ships having the quality 'built in'. Even Leviathan uses globes for that. I wonder why they didn't just enthrall Shep and send him to just destroy the reapers? Maybe they did and we don't know it...it's in their best intrest the reapers be wiped out.

[Morty Smith]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

Come on, pointing again at an example for this "lack of understanding" is an excuse, not an answer.

And here I thought there was something behind the talk.

I'm sorry, Kroitz, I don't understand what you're asking.  You asked what many people on the BSN don't understand – I pointed you to a guy who thinks the Reaper plan is "I'm going to kill you so you don't kill yourself later".  

That's what I'm talking about.  Do you want to argue that I'm not the only person on BSN who does understand it?  Because that's not at all what I said.

You still stop at the "they don´t understand it" - part, without providing an example of "understanding".

[CaptainZaysh]

Kroitz, I and others have explained it a few times in this thread already.

[KevShep]

Sovereign in ME1 said that they are each a nation, independent....Thanks to ME3 that is a lie, or a plot hole.

[Morty Smith]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Kroitz, I and others have explained it a few times in this thread already.

I guess you might count beeing stuck in the same flawed mindset as presented by the catalyst to be an explanation.

Might be misrepresented arrogance in both cases.

[Ticonderoga117]

Every Reaper to date: "You can't comprehend why we do this."

The Catalyst: "Here's why we are doing this."

The Catalyst does not jive with what 2.9 games have been telling us.

[Mcfly616]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Every Reaper to date: "You can't comprehend why we do this."

The Catalyst: "Here's why we are doing this."

The Catalyst does not jive with what 2.9 games have been telling us.

It's quite apparent that some people still don't "comprehend" it. So I'd say it jives just fine.

[Ticonderoga117]

Mcfly616 wrote...
 It's quite apparent that some people still don't "comprehend" it. So I'd say it jives just fine.

That's not how it works.

[Morty Smith]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Every Reaper to date: "You can't comprehend why we do this."

The Catalyst: "Here's why we are doing this."

The Catalyst does not jive with what 2.9 games have been telling us.

It's quite apparent that some people still don't "comprehend" it. So I'd say it jives just fine.

You have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Most are still under the impression that BW is able to come up with a working concept behind, I don´t know, the main antagonist or something. But I guess they will "comprehend" that sooner or later. Give them time.

[111987]

KevShep wrote...

Sovereign in ME1 said that they are each a nation, independent....Thanks to ME3 that is a lie, or a plot hole.

Well, they are nation in the sense that they are the uploaded consciousness of a race. Individual in the sense that what happens to one Reaper doesn't affect another.

The fact that they think they are acting freely though is interesting because it shows they are unaware of the Catalyst's existence. In essence, they are indoctrinated themselves.

[Fixers0]

111987 wrote...

Well, they are nation in the sense that they are the uploaded consciousness of a race. Individual in the sense that what happens to one Reaper doesn't affect another.

Implausable, they're made of liquid organic components pumped within a metal cuttlefish, when people (like humans) are reduced to aforementioned liquid components through melting them, then it's not possible can be in any way councious, They. Are. Just. Drab.

Modifié par Fixers0, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:10 .

[RogueBot]

Not comprehending isn't the same as not agreeing, OP.

Modifié par RogueBot, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:12 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Wait what?

This.

[Kataphrut94]

I replayed Mass Effect 1 recently and found Sovereign's speech to be just as effective, intimidating as pants-wetting as ever, even in light of the information provided by the Catalyst and Leviathan.

He really doesn't contradict anything. The core philosophy of the Reapers - that is, imposing a twisted sense of order on the galaxy by creating a cycle of perpetual extinction and harvesting organic species at the height of their glory. All the Catalyst really does is explain the underlying premise further and attempt to justify it as a cruel mercy, while Sovereign was more in the vain of "deal with it, ****es!"

[Applepie_Svk]

It´s just stupid ending with antagonist trying to solve his own circular logic based on infinite agenda... what a great story to tell... problem will be never solved