If the Quarians didn't attack, the Reapers would have attacked them eventually. The Quarians attacked the Geth Dyson sphere making the Geth weaker/dumb,(if the Quarians didn't attack) would the Geth not face the same problem when fighting against the Reapers(losing Geth intelligence/Dyson sphere).
IMO, Geth would have turned on us sooner or later. If it had happened later the Geth would have blind sided us.
"[Legion] and the Geth were backed into a corner. They'd been made a lot dumber by the attack on the Dyson swarm. There was no other choice for Geth survival."
Débuté par
CosmicGnosis
, janv. 16 2013 08:01
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#152
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 07:52
nos_astra
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That's a very good point. They would have lost intelligence over the course of the war, there's no doubt about that. It really begs the question if they'd have switched sides then, too.Cyrax86 wrote...
If the Quarians didn't attack, the Reapers would have attacked them eventually. The Quarians attacked the Geth Dyson sphere making the Geth weaker/dumb,(if the Quarians didn't attack) would the Geth not face the same problem when fighting against the Reapers(losing Geth intelligence/Dyson sphere).
IMO, Geth would have turned on us sooner or later. If it had happened later the Geth would have blind sided us.
Modifié par klarabella, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:09 .
#153
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 08:03
xsdob
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klarabella wrote...
That's a very good point. They would have lost intelligence of the course of the war, there's no doubt about that. It really begs the question if they'd have switched sides then, too.Cyrax86 wrote...
If the Quarians didn't attack, the Reapers would have attacked them eventually. The Quarians attacked the Geth Dyson sphere making the Geth weaker/dumb,(if the Quarians didn't attack) would the Geth not face the same problem when fighting against the Reapers(losing Geth intelligence/Dyson sphere).
IMO, Geth would have turned on us sooner or later. If it had happened later the Geth would have blind sided us.
Preservation is logically more presedent than ideology, so more than likely yes.
#154
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 08:31
Kataphrut94
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It is worth mentioning that the geth were prepared for the Reapers and may have had some sort of counter-measure in place to deal with them. It was the quarian surprise attack with Admiral Xen's new toys that blindsided them.
#155
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 09:24
Clayless
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DeinonSlayer wrote...
VI is there if you completed Legion's loyalty mission and Legion then died in the Suicide Mission. They're not heretics. That's simply what the Geth are without Legion's influence.
Legion did a lot of "independent learning" during his two years outside the Veil - he came to appreciate things like the value of organic life. If he makes it back to the main Consensus, this perspective transfers to them. If he doesn't, the Geth maintain the same mindset they've had since the Morning War. Legion's geth will stand down if the Quarians stop shooting. The VI makes it blisteringly clear that it intends to kill the Quarians no matter what, and unlike Legion, expresses no remorse at the prospect of doing so.
Legion, and his perspective, didn't exist until two and a half years before the present in ME3. The VI is a more accurate representative of the Geth before that - and the real mindscrew is that they're really the same person. Both Legion and the VI manipulate their way through the conflict - one just has slightly nobler intentions.
Think about it. Legion is the only geth in the entire trilogy who doesn't shoot at you on sight. They're not as cuddly as so many seem to want to believe.
Interesting, I never knew this.
I really need to get round to a Cerberus sold Legion playthrough.
#156
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 09:30
shodiswe
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I really don't think the get would have sided with the Reapers if the Reapers were the ones killing them. Legion also said the Geth knew the Reapers were comming and were preparing.
I'm guessing that massive flag ship that could take massive amounts of sustained incoming damage was part of their atempts to fight the reapers. It was proably designed to take sustained reaper fire and quickly boost it's shields back up, which explains why the Quarrians only managed to cause minordamage before the shields went up again.
A ship with shield boost just like the Volus in ME3 multiplayer. And hiant guns and advanced defense lasers. However an all out Reaper attack would still destroy it surely but it would surely have put up a fight.
Also the thing that really made a difference was Legions "adventures" it made legion realize the geth wern't as perfect or all that it thought they were. They had flaws and even sides to them that they had attributed to organics. Legion even learned that Geth could turn on each other, it wasn't purely an organic problem. Synthetics could turn on eachother and they could lie, they could exibit pride and they could make misstakes and dissagree on things.
In other words, Legion learned that the idea of a single goal the geth people's "plitical party" was nothing but an ideoligical dream... Always agreeing on everything, Legion couldnät even make up a consensus on what to do with the Heretics.
When facing the dilema about the heretics I aksed legion and apparently a small majority of it's "programs" favoured rewrite, so I wen't withe rewrite in "democratic" fashion even if Legion claimed it didn't belive in such things. But it was what the majority of the allied geth wanted.
The heretics were dead no matter what.
Also the part about shooting at any Organic that entered their space. They didn't trust organics after the hell they had been through.
But I agree, they should have meet the council emissary at the border of their space and told them to leave and that they just wanted to be left alone.
On the other hand at the beginning of their existance they were probably faily unaware of the distinction between different organic races, they probably saw all as Organic would be slavemasters.
And after loosing their first immisary or emisaries the council probably didn't wan't to send more people.
The Geth probably thought it best to try and stay unnoticed so they don't aggravate the organics of the galaxy.
Moving from Ranoch to a different part of space could have been just as dangerous, others could have seen it as a hostile action by the Geth. Even the council could have seen it as a sign of Geth Expansion and might have considered taking action before they became a danger.
So simply moving from the old Quarrian worlds might not have been that easy.
The Geth were simply not in a hurry until the they became aware of the Reapers. That's when they created Legion to go out there and become their Ambassador.. People tried to shoot the Geth emissary /ambassador just as the Geth had shot the Council ambassadors.
Several hundred years later the Organics didn't act better than the Geth had.
I think the blame for that lies on both sides.
Legion spent two years dodging and living among Organics before Shepard found it.
One other problem was that Legion spent too much time trying to track down Shepard.. a Spectre in a stealth ship that's very hard to track down before he's already left.
But that's because Legion and the Geth thought that Shepard was the only one worth their while, because Shepard knew how to kill Reapers. This also proves how imcompetent Geth are at galactic politics, they couldn't just send a message that they wanted to talk to Shepard.
I'm guessing that massive flag ship that could take massive amounts of sustained incoming damage was part of their atempts to fight the reapers. It was proably designed to take sustained reaper fire and quickly boost it's shields back up, which explains why the Quarrians only managed to cause minordamage before the shields went up again.
A ship with shield boost just like the Volus in ME3 multiplayer. And hiant guns and advanced defense lasers. However an all out Reaper attack would still destroy it surely but it would surely have put up a fight.
Also the thing that really made a difference was Legions "adventures" it made legion realize the geth wern't as perfect or all that it thought they were. They had flaws and even sides to them that they had attributed to organics. Legion even learned that Geth could turn on each other, it wasn't purely an organic problem. Synthetics could turn on eachother and they could lie, they could exibit pride and they could make misstakes and dissagree on things.
In other words, Legion learned that the idea of a single goal the geth people's "plitical party" was nothing but an ideoligical dream... Always agreeing on everything, Legion couldnät even make up a consensus on what to do with the Heretics.
When facing the dilema about the heretics I aksed legion and apparently a small majority of it's "programs" favoured rewrite, so I wen't withe rewrite in "democratic" fashion even if Legion claimed it didn't belive in such things. But it was what the majority of the allied geth wanted.
The heretics were dead no matter what.
Also the part about shooting at any Organic that entered their space. They didn't trust organics after the hell they had been through.
But I agree, they should have meet the council emissary at the border of their space and told them to leave and that they just wanted to be left alone.
On the other hand at the beginning of their existance they were probably faily unaware of the distinction between different organic races, they probably saw all as Organic would be slavemasters.
And after loosing their first immisary or emisaries the council probably didn't wan't to send more people.
The Geth probably thought it best to try and stay unnoticed so they don't aggravate the organics of the galaxy.
Moving from Ranoch to a different part of space could have been just as dangerous, others could have seen it as a hostile action by the Geth. Even the council could have seen it as a sign of Geth Expansion and might have considered taking action before they became a danger.
So simply moving from the old Quarrian worlds might not have been that easy.
The Geth were simply not in a hurry until the they became aware of the Reapers. That's when they created Legion to go out there and become their Ambassador.. People tried to shoot the Geth emissary /ambassador just as the Geth had shot the Council ambassadors.
Several hundred years later the Organics didn't act better than the Geth had.
I think the blame for that lies on both sides.
Legion spent two years dodging and living among Organics before Shepard found it.
One other problem was that Legion spent too much time trying to track down Shepard.. a Spectre in a stealth ship that's very hard to track down before he's already left.
But that's because Legion and the Geth thought that Shepard was the only one worth their while, because Shepard knew how to kill Reapers. This also proves how imcompetent Geth are at galactic politics, they couldn't just send a message that they wanted to talk to Shepard.
Modifié par shodiswe, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:34 .
#157
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 11:03
Wolfva2
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Ranoch was every bit the Geth's home world as the Quarians. After all, it's where they were created. Why would they move on? Especially with all the work and resources they put into various facilities like the Dyson bubbles, satellites, and server mainframes? People forget, also, that the Geth were NOT the platforms, but were computer programs. Most of those programs lived in the servers, and as Legion pointed out, many were killed forever when the Quarians attacked. Destroying a Geth body is no big deal; it just gets a new one. Destroying the server farm that houses their programs? THAT kills them.
#158
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 11:49
nos_astra
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No, it's not. it's the quarian's home because they are dependent on this planet. They are squishy organics who thrive a lot better when provided with enough food. They have a long history there. It's part of who they are. And as organics they have an obvious emotional attachment to what is their home. It's were their culture was born, their predeccessors were born. The usual concept of home much like we understand it.Wolfva2 wrote...
Ranoch was every bit the Geth's home world as the Quarians. After all, it's where they were created.
The geth only "awakened" on that planet and then everything went to hell. It is never explained how and why the geth jumped immediately to adopting the usual concepts of "home" and "creators" and "soul". What are they attached to? The nice rocks? The fond memories? And they started this right after their creators were successfully destroyed and chased away? We don't even understand what fuels their weird attachment to that place but you claim it's every bit the same?
Modifié par klarabella, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:50 .
#159
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 12:05
ZeCollectorDestroya
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^It was the Quarian's own doing. They have no one to blame but themselves.
You don't call a baby a thing that was awakened on XYZ planet. A baby doesn't have any memories and attachments.
Think of it this way, robotic or not: the Geth were the Quarian's children. Hence why they were asking for the meaning/purpose of life. Human kids do that too, they wonder about life and its mysteries beyond. The Geth are no different, except for being Synthetic.
The Quarians don't deserve Rannoch for blaming someone else while it was their fault. Which is why I never make peace and kill the ****ers purposely.
You don't call a baby a thing that was awakened on XYZ planet. A baby doesn't have any memories and attachments.
Think of it this way, robotic or not: the Geth were the Quarian's children. Hence why they were asking for the meaning/purpose of life. Human kids do that too, they wonder about life and its mysteries beyond. The Geth are no different, except for being Synthetic.
The Quarians don't deserve Rannoch for blaming someone else while it was their fault. Which is why I never make peace and kill the ****ers purposely.
#160
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 02:01
nos_astra
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I doubt that. The quarians contributed a great deal to their situation. That doesn't mean the geth are innocent little children who cannot be held acountable for what they have done.ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
^It was the Quarian's own doing. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Newly sentient geth aren't babies. They are very different from what we know.You don't call a baby a thing that was awakened on XYZ planet. A baby doesn't have any memories and attachments.
#161
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 03:45
shodiswe
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klarabella wrote...
I doubt that. The quarians contributed a great deal to their situation. That doesn't mean the geth are innocent little children who cannot be held acountable for what they have done.ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
^It was the Quarian's own doing. They have no one to blame but themselves.Newly sentient geth aren't babies. They are very different from what we know.You don't call a baby a thing that was awakened on XYZ planet. A baby doesn't have any memories and attachments.
They still had a lot to learn and a lot of "evolving" to do. They were pretty mcuh Babies even if they wern't qute as defenseless.
#162
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 05:45
nos_astra
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The geth were different back then. They didn't understand how organics work. It doesn't make them children. It's not comparable to anything we know.shodiswe wrote...
They still had a lot to learn and a lot of "evolving" to do. They were pretty mcuh Babies even if they wern't qute as defenseless.
#163
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 08:27
Cyrax86
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lol @ geth innocence.
During the morning war, the Geth killed billions of innocent Quarian civilians, 99%(i think) of the Quarians population, that includes children and people who probably never held a gun in their life or had anything to do with the Geth. The Quarians that committed those "crimes" during the morning war are dead, and have been dead for along time, it is their decendents that are paying for their crimes. They're being punished for crimes they didn't commit, while the Geth remain un-punished, and aren't the Geth that fought in the morning war technically still around.
During the morning war, the Geth killed billions of innocent Quarian civilians, 99%(i think) of the Quarians population, that includes children and people who probably never held a gun in their life or had anything to do with the Geth. The Quarians that committed those "crimes" during the morning war are dead, and have been dead for along time, it is their decendents that are paying for their crimes. They're being punished for crimes they didn't commit, while the Geth remain un-punished, and aren't the Geth that fought in the morning war technically still around.
#164
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 08:34
MegaSovereign
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klarabella wrote...
I wonder why they created this contrived situation that forced the geth to accept Reaper tech and abandon the one thing that made them unique and alien among the mostly very un-alien aliens of ME in order to become individuals, right after freeing the geth from Reaper influence and with a heavy helping of stupid/evil Quarians on top.
To make people feel sorry for the Geth. Maybe the writers were afraid that people would side with the Quarians because they can relate to them better.
Plus, ME2 showcased the struggles of the Quarian race.
#165
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 09:06
RiouHotaru
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Wait, this is news to people? Legion outright states this is why the Geth went back to the Reapers. The quarians attacked them, countless programs were lost, and in a move to preserve their existence, they sided with the Reapers again. Legion didn't agree, which is why he's strapped into the Dreadnaught.
How is this news to anyone?
How is this news to anyone?
#166
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 09:16
Bill Casey
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BleedingUranium is right...Kyrene wrote...
So your response is to strongly imply that he's a racist?!? I found your edits "extremely distasteful and offensive." Perhaps I should call you a racist too?!? I will call you an idiot and a fool though, unless you realise exactly how wrong you were...BleedingUranium wrote...
I see no difference. I found his original post to be extremely distasteful and offensive.
It's ****ing racist and offensive...
Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:16 .
#167
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:24
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*
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Unless they're Quarian children, I guess they deserve to die then.ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...
^It was the Quarian's own doing. They have no one to blame but themselves.
You don't call a baby a thing that was awakened on XYZ planet. A baby doesn't have any memories and attachments.
Think of it this way, robotic or not: the Geth were the Quarian's children. Hence why they were asking for the meaning/purpose of life. Human kids do that too, they wonder about life and its mysteries beyond. The Geth are no different, except for being Synthetic.
#168
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:28
shodiswe
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Cyrax86 wrote...
lol @ geth innocence.
During the morning war, the Geth killed billions of innocent Quarian civilians, 99%(i think) of the Quarians population, that includes children and people who probably never held a gun in their life or had anything to do with the Geth. The Quarians that committed those "crimes" during the morning war are dead, and have been dead for along time, it is their decendents that are paying for their crimes. They're being punished for crimes they didn't commit, while the Geth remain un-punished, and aren't the Geth that fought in the morning war technically still around.
A lot of them probably are, some arn't and there are probably a few billion who wern't around back then.
It has happend in humanitys past, in several cases you just have to let go, because the alternative just isn't the solution to future peace.
Modifié par shodiswe, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:30 .
#169
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:32
shodiswe
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Who knows, maybe in the future of mass effect past ME3 there could be a quarrian with a list of Geth ID numbers running a terror ring arranging timely accidents for suspected or confirmed Geth warcriminals...
Operating outside the law like terrorists.
Operating outside the law like terrorists.
#170
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:45
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*
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Why are people suddenly accusing others of being racist to Synthetics, offensive to who exactly? There aren't any AI's in real life you know, how is someone questioning the sentience of a form of life that doesn't even exist even remotely racist?
#171
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:54
shodiswe
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Finn the Jakey wrote...
Why are people suddenly accusing others of being racist to Synthetics, offensive to who exactly? There aren't any AI's in real life you know, how is someone questioning the sentience of a form of life that doesn't even exist even remotely racist?
The whole question is based on the assumption of their existance. RL existance has nothing to do with it. Personal values does however. Some might claim they wern't created by god so they arn't alive, or they wern't created in gods "image" so they arn't alive in the same sens as in the sence in which a duck ins't truly alive or lacks a soul.
#172
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 10:57
KiwiQuiche
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Oh man was I enraged when I found out the quarians destroyed the Dyson Sphere. And the quarians proved time and again they're too stupid to live. Yeah starting a war while the Reapers eat everyone, good job bros.
#173
Posté 17 janvier 2013 - 11:01
Steelcan
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Damn those civilians who had no choice. They really deserve to dieKiwiQuiche wrote...
Oh man was I enraged when I found out the quarians destroyed the Dyson Sphere. And the quarians proved time and again they're too stupid to live. Yeah starting a war while the Reapers eat everyone, good job bros.
#174
Posté 18 janvier 2013 - 04:59
Cyrax86
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Quarians were forced/backed into a corner, and the rest of the galaxy couldn't and wouldn't help them. Where were the Quarians going to shelter their civilians (17 million in population). The Quarians needed a place to keep their civilians safe and make repairs on their ships, they're only way out was through the Geth.
The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.
The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.
#175
Posté 18 janvier 2013 - 05:18
thehomeworld
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The "poor geth" had a choice ages ago infact it was 300+ years ago if they truly wanted to be left alone to make their own happy digital world they could've left Rannoch abandoned so what if they "felt" bad once they'd spent half that time researching organics and with the help of the extra net to surf on they would've figured out when you do that to people they don't want to be your friends and the geth claim infact they don't really want friends being alone to do their own thing implies they want to be alone not with people.
They don't need air, food, or earth they only need curtain materials and these can be found in dark space or over in the next solar system there was no need but spite to holdon to the home world they claim they were being threatened but all they needed to do was pick up and leave similar to the reapers they don't want conflict yet they stay in the area and make it.
They don't need air, food, or earth they only need curtain materials and these can be found in dark space or over in the next solar system there was no need but spite to holdon to the home world they claim they were being threatened but all they needed to do was pick up and leave similar to the reapers they don't want conflict yet they stay in the area and make it.
