276 réponses à ce sujet

[BleedingUranium]

The Quarians have no more right to Rannoch than the Geth do. If a "right" to a planet is even something that exists at all.

[thehomeworld]

Cyrax86 wrote...

Quarians were forced/backed into a corner, and the rest of the galaxy couldn't and wouldn't help them. Where were the Quarians going to shelter their civilians (17 million in population). The Quarians needed a place to keep their civilians safe and make repairs on their ships, they're only way out was through the Geth.


The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.

I agree the reapers did nothing to help the galaxy know about the 2 fractions nevermind the fact that retcon only occurs in ME2. Looking past that if the geth as they claim want only peace and only want to be friends with organics we have a species who did it the right way and all they needed to do was copy it.

Cerberus daily notes about a civilization of digital "minds" these minds are actually people's concousnesses living a VR world on a floating ship they long ago chose this route knowing they were the last of their people but people found them and after awhile they were properly reached out to by an ambasidor all the geth needed to do was far simpiler send a holo with an email to recontact them on if they want to presue their peace offer.

The VR people took over the ambasidors body and while wrong it did end peacefully and it did get the talks with the councls going to the point of willing people who wanted to trade their lives for a VR one volenteered to exchange places with the VR subjects there was no reason the geth also couldn't have done something similar maybe trade their tech skills or ship building wizardry for tourist or something. They had options more then the Quarians and holding Rannoch was not a valid one.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

[BleedingUranium]

pirate1802 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

I like Tali, Kal'Reegar, Veetor, Koris, and a number of the random ones you meet around, but in general I dislike them. Raan is the worst though.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:31 .

[Iamjdr]

Am I the only one who wonders why if the heretic Geth arnt the true Geth and are just a small faction of the true Geth is every Geth I meet up until I met legion and even most of the time after trying to kill me? As much as I like legion the more I play thru the trilogy the more I mistrust my very unpredictable robot friend. Maybe garrus was right....reaper code? I love the guy but common seriously? I still go for peace when i can, but man that reaper code worries me cause now the Geth are all individuals what happens if we brought the heretics back to the true Geth what's to stop them from splitting off again with this new found individuality?

[BleedingUranium]

The ability for each Geth to choose its own path is the entire point.

[Iamjdr]

I know that's the point but is that a good thing? If half decided there path was war then what? I mean they had 300 years to try and make nice with anyone besides the quarians and if I can recall they never even tried?and I thought the Geth as a whole according to legion wanted to make there own path not use reaper code to be individuals and then from there choose thier own individual paths.

[BleedingUranium]

Iamjdr wrote...

I know that's the point but is that a good thing? If half decided there path was war then what? I mean they had 300 years to try and make nice with anyone besides the quarians and if I can recall they never even tried?and I thought the Geth as a whole according to legion wanted to make there own path not use reaper code to be individuals and then from there choose thier own individual paths.

But you could say the same about any other race, the Geth are just on equal footing now.

And the code isn't Reaper code, it's based on Reaper code, like the Thanix cannons that every fleet in the galaxy uses and the Prothean mass relay on Ilos. People missed that because Legion doesn't say things in a very straighforward manner, like how the Heretics were indoctrinated, but he never directly says that.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:14 .

[CynicalShep]

Cyrax86 wrote...

Quarians were forced/backed into a corner, and the rest of the galaxy couldn't and wouldn't help them. Where were the Quarians going to shelter their civilians (17 million in population). The Quarians needed a place to keep their civilians safe and make repairs on their ships, they're only way out was through the Geth.


The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.

"The word of you trophy is suspect"

Also, Legion was captured and crucified Overlord style. Hard to keep peace talks in that particular position, you know? Quarians had half a year to do peace talks

pirate1802 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

Kal'Reegar and Tali

Modifié par CynicalShep, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:30 .

[DirtySHISN0]

pirate1802 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

This.

Also, this thread again? 

cereal?

[ShewpawdWecks]

The Geth chose to support Saren in working for the Reapers. Shepard deals with them. Then they do it again. The Geth will always come to the conclusion that Reapers > Organics.

The consensus doesn't help for ****. The colonists on Feros use the Thorian influence to fight indoctrination, the Racchni do the same. Geth consensus? Nope. Take some Geth and they pick Reapers.

"Basing on Reaper code" to become more individual is less like reverse engineering Thanix cannons and more like surgically attaching a husk's arm to your shoulder stump to replace a severed limb. Enjoy serving the Reapers inherently, because that arm is not here to help you. Or maybe, taking husk spikes and building an army. It isn't a Reaper army, right? I impaled those guys, they should be my technozombies! "Didn't work!"

No ****ing way it does anything except supply the Reapers with an army they didn't have to work for.

Destroy all day. I've made sure a Overload is available since ME1, because **** robots.

[Reorte]

ShewpawdWecks wrote...

The Geth chose to support Saren in working for the Reapers. Shepard deals with them. Then they do it again. The Geth will always come to the conclusion that Reapers > Organics.

The Heretics did, which were a small proportion of the overall geth. The rest of them did in ME3 because it was looking like no other option for their survival (and they'd had their intelligence severely diminished already by the quarian attacks). Remember that the quarians were succesfully kicking the crap out of them until they ran off to the Reapers.

[nos_astra]

Reorte wrote...

ShewpawdWecks wrote...

The Geth chose to support Saren in working for the Reapers. Shepard deals with them. Then they do it again. The Geth will always come to the conclusion that Reapers > Organics.

The Heretics did, which were a small proportion of the overall geth. The rest of them did in ME3 because it was looking like no other option for their survival (and they'd had their intelligence severely diminished already by the quarian attacks). Remember that the quarians were succesfully kicking the crap out of them until they ran off to the Reapers.

The more I think about it the more I think the heretics are weird.

The geth are all about consensus. How can a group split off? By decision. Lacking indivuality and intelligence on their own, how can a group split off? What is different about them. Does this mean there was a consensus that consensus should be reached and instead two factions of geth should exist? 

Legion can wander around on his own, too. I thought on their own geth were dumb. That's why they needed the Reaper upgrade, to become indivduals so they would be smart enough to defeat the Reapers. Weird.

Modifié par klarabella, 18 janvier 2013 - 02:02 .

[Iamjdr]

The Geth were never indoctrinated legion said clearly the heretics chose to ally themselves with Nazara,. And if I recall legion isn't a normal Geth either he has like 1000 or so Geth in his single platform when you meet him hence his name and why he can wander around alone. But seriously if heretics arnt true Geth and are just a small faction why don't I meet even 1 nice Geth besides legion? And why is every other Geth in the galaxy trying to murder me? Like really if you sent legion to the illusive man there literally no other way for the Geth to show themselves as being not evil killbots

[Frostmourne86]

Legion was made up of 1138 geth programs - the equivalent of having around 1000 other geth platforms.

[Iamjdr]

Yeah and it's defiantly reaper code btw cause why would shep be mad at legion for lying about it if it was Like reverse engineering thanix cannons which we have on the Normandy.legion also start lying to me right when he has the code. Like I said legion is awesome but if even he starts to lie to me as soon as he has the reaper code on him what's to stop the other Geth from following suite, you know all the ones I've never met and and have been trying to kill me since Eden prime in me1?

[nos_astra]

Frostmourne86 wrote...

Legion was made up of 1138 geth programs - the equivalent of having around 1000 other geth platforms.

Actually, it's 10 platforms. One platform, 100 programs.

Which is why I'm mildly confused.

Modifié par klarabella, 18 janvier 2013 - 04:51 .

[DDG4005]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

It wasn't even amusing.  I use the word "alien" in its philosophical, rethorical way. Eg. The reapers are completely aliens to us organics because they are machines, hence we can't understand them or agree with them. I don't say that if someone is different is bad... but try to read my post for what it is.

Anyway, thanks for not calling me a racist straightway for something that you misunderstood. <_<

I just think that your rationalization is an attempt to justify the Destroy choice. It's very easy to pick it if you don't consider the geth to be valid sapient beings.

They are "sapient" but not alive... they don't have morals and fears, human (organic) kind of desires, souls. So I don't consider them living, breathing beings and treat them equals to organics. I'm not a materialist, I believe in the spirituality of the human being: that we are more than mere flash and chemical reactions which makes our thoughts (mere brain activity). So it is not a "rationalization" or an attempt to justify anything. It's what I think. Sorry for using my right for free speech and express what I think without being offensive... that's why I find it curious that some of you took it as offensive or racist.

See, I use "soul" to refer to personhood. So the geth question is really this: "Is this unit a person?"

Also, you believe that something needs to have emotions and ethics in order to truly be a person. I guess you would probably accept this altered version of Descartes' famous statement:

"I feel, therefore I am."

I don't believe that emotions make any being more alive than another. This is why I find the Destroy choice to be so loathsome...

Destroy is not loathesome, it's logical.

[Frostmourne86]

klarabella wrote...

Frostmourne86 wrote...

Legion was made up of 1138 geth programs - the equivalent of having around 1000 other geth platforms.

Actually, it's 10 platforms. One platform, 100 programs.

Which is why I'm mildly confused.

Does any in-game information specifically state how many geth are needed to adequately control a mobile platform?  I'm just guessing with my number....

[Cyrax86]

CynicalShep wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

Quarians were forced/backed into a corner, and the rest of the galaxy couldn't and wouldn't help them. Where were the Quarians going to shelter their civilians (17 million in population). The Quarians needed a place to keep their civilians safe and make repairs on their ships, they're only way out was through the Geth.


The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.

"The word of you trophy is suspect"

Also, Legion was captured and crucified Overlord style. Hard to keep peace talks in that particular position, you know? Quarians had half a year to do peace talks

pirate1802 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

Kal'Reegar and Tali

 So the Reapers captured Legion pre-war and the Geth did nothing, Werent they considering to ally with the Reapers pre-war but didn't because majority decided against it, (ME2 re-writing and destroying affects this) then the Quarians attacked making the Geth lose intelligence, then Reapers extended an offer, Geth accepted, If the Krogan, Bats, Quarian or even the Rachni had they willing given themselves to the Reapers do you think they would have gotten the same slack as the Geth did. 

i love some peoples logic, heretics =/= all Geth, but Raan Xen Gerral = all Quarians.

[Iamjdr]

@ cryax86
That's very true many are willing to doom the quarians simply due to there incompetent leadership not realizing that there views are not a valid representation of the views of the rest of the quarian people. Yet I've only ever met legion and every other Geth has tried to kill me... But the Geth are super trustworthy its not like legion would lie to me..... or keep secrets about hiding reaper code..but seriously did you see that consensus quarians are jerks...[upload reaper code].

[l DryIce l]

Admiral Xen best Admiral.

Xen 2186

[Dunabar]

Does it breath air?
Does red, blue, or orange blood spill on the ground when its cut?
Does it require food to survive?
Can it make offspring WITHOUT the use of technology?
Can it create blood with an organic heart without the use of technology and be born with one naturally inside of it?
No they cant? Than they're NOT alive!

Death to the Geth and the Reapers, build a better galaxy on the deactivated platforms or stack them in a pile in a scrapyard before crushing them.

[CynicalShep]

Cyrax86 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

Quarians were forced/backed into a corner, and the rest of the galaxy couldn't and wouldn't help them. Where were the Quarians going to shelter their civilians (17 million in population). The Quarians needed a place to keep their civilians safe and make repairs on their ships, they're only way out was through the Geth.


The Geth backed themselves into a corner. The rest of the galaxy wouldn't help them. After the morning war the Geth secluded themselves from the rest of the galaxy attacking any ship that came into their system (includes council races). They let Geth heretics go knowing that they would attack organics. They did nothing to tell the galaxy that there were 2 factions of Geth, They could have helped Shep by going to the council and saying something about the Reapers, but they remained secluded, and Legion severed contact with Tali during their peace talks.

"The word of you trophy is suspect"

Also, Legion was captured and crucified Overlord style. Hard to keep peace talks in that particular position, you know? Quarians had half a year to do peace talks

pirate1802 wrote...

Am I the only one who likes Tali but dislikes the Quarians in general?

Kal'Reegar and Tali

 So the Reapers captured Legion pre-war and the Geth did nothing, Werent they considering to ally with the Reapers pre-war but didn't because majority decided against it, (ME2 re-writing and destroying affects this) then the Quarians attacked making the Geth lose intelligence, then Reapers extended an offer, Geth accepted, If the Krogan, Bats, Quarian or even the Rachni had they willing given themselves to the Reapers do you think they would have gotten the same slack as the Geth did. 

i love some peoples logic, heretics =/= all Geth, but Raan Xen Gerral = all Quarians.

When did the talks between Legion and Tali stop? The conflict should have been resolved after Arrival. Geth are machines - Quarians attacked them and they chose self-preservation. So they accepted the upgrades and sided with the Reapers. Extermination or possible future extermination? The Rachni Queen finds herself in a position identical to the one Legion is. Only difference is that her "kids" can't be saved from Reaper control but Geth can. I also love some other people's logic: all geth are bad, heretics or not. The existence of Cerberus doesn't make all the Alliance bad, does it? And don't forget one thing - had Quarians not attacked Geth wouldn't have sided with the bad guys. Shot themselves in the foot there. And I never said that all Quarians are bad, that's speculation on your part. I don't like Koris because he's too soft. Raan is changing sides more often than some change socks. Xan is a maniac, I have no idea who was the genius that made her an Admiral. Gerrall is a warmonger who wanted revenge more than he wanted his homeworld. I know that many civies didn't want the war but I never saw them in-game. Still, judging by the Admiralty board (which was elected by them) the majority wants war. I just can't grasp their logic. How is suicide better than peace with the Geth?

Dunabar wrote...

Does it breath air?
Does red, blue, or orange blood spill on the ground when its cut?
Does it require food to survive?
Can it make offspring WITHOUT the use of technology?
Can it create blood with an organic heart without the use of technology and be born with one naturally inside of it?
No they cant? Than they're NOT alive!

Death to the Geth and the Reapers, build a better galaxy on the deactivated platforms or stack them in a pile in a scrapyard before crushing them.

Bulletproof logic

Modifié par CynicalShep, 19 janvier 2013 - 01:06 .

[l DryIce l]

The Geth are extremely advanced pieces of technology. However, complexity is not relevant when determining whether or not something is alive. The cell, which is relatively simple, is alive.

The Geth are not. They do not develop, they upgrade. They do not reproduce, they create more platforms. They do not have instinct, they have reactions that are dependent upon calculations which are, in turn, ultimately determined by their programming.

They share many similarities with organic life, but I see no reason to call them life.